Best Qur'an Translation?

[Rival]

I read until about halfway through the surah, and it looks quite accurate. My only comment is about 7:40, where the word for "thick rope" in classical Arabic is also the one for "camel." The idiom is similar to "this will happen when pigs fly." Here, the verse states that a certain group of people will not enter heaven "until the camel [or thick rope, depending on interpretation and subsequent translation] passes through the eye of a needle."

The translation still conveys the general meaning, but it misses the finer nuance and the lack of consensus on whether the word is intended in the verse to mean "camel" or "thick rope."

This is almost identical to the Greek rope/camel idiom in the NT.

Should the word camel in Matthew 19:24 be thick rope? (neverthirsty.org)

Thank you.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This is almost identical to Hebrew rope/camel idiom.

Thank you.

No problem!

I just looked up how Yusuf Ali translates 7:40. Note the subtle but noticeable differences between it and the edition you linked:

To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance no opening will there be of the gates of heaven nor will they enter the garden until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: such is Our reward for those in sin.

Sūra 7: A’rāf, or The Heights

Contrast this with the other translation:

The gates of Heaven will not be open to those who rejected Our revelations and arrogantly spurned them; even if a thick rope were to pass through the eye of a needle they would not enter the Garden. This is how We punish the guilty-

Yusuf Ali is definitely closer to the original idiom due to its usage of "until" and an affirmative clause instead of "even if" and a negative clause, although the choice between "camel" and "thick rope" in this verse isn't settled even in Arabic.

 

[Rival]

No problem!

I just looked up how Yusuf Ali translates 7:40. Note the subtle but noticeable differences between it and the edition you linked:



Sūra 7: A’rāf, or The Heights

Contrast this with the other translation:



Yusuf Ali is definitely closer to the original idiom due to its usage of "until" and an affirmative clause instead of "even if" and a negative clause, although the choice between "camel" and "thick rope" in this verse isn't settled even in Arabic.

Thanks for pointing this out! I'll make sure to notice this kind of thing.

 

[stevecanuck]

Yusuf Ali, because earlier translations didn't have sufficient knowledge of English to convey meaning, and later translations garble the accepted meanings for the purpose of post-hoc rationalisation to a greater extent.

In my opinion.

Completely agree. Mohsin Khan is my 'favorite' in terms of adding his take.

 

[muhammad_isa]

This is the book that completely changed my life.

One minute I was searching, and the next moment I found.
..alongside encyclopedias of sayings of Muhammad and his disciples.

I was "born again" .. and then "again" [ in Hajj ]

..but now the "candle" flickers .. our lives are finite.

 

[Rival]

This is the book that completely changed my life.

One minute I was searching, and the next moment I found.
..alongside encyclopedias of sayings of Muhammad and his disciples.

I was "born again" .. and then "again" [ in Hajj ]

..but now the "candle" flickers .. our lives are finite.

Last time I read it in full I was 15, iirc. It was the Penguin version. I also have the Sahih International version. I study Theology (Christian) at university.

 

[Hamilton]

Anyone welcome.

Which is in your opinion the best Qur'an translation, for any reason you'd like to give.

Whn it comes to English translations, Yusuf Ali is for me one of the most comfortable to read, including the added poetry and commentary.

When I want to understand Quranic words and passages academically, my favorite source is "Al Quran (Tafsir & by Word)" app by Greentech Apps Foundation. They had a website, and may still have, which I used until I got access to the app.

I have a few tafsir books, which I read cover to cover. This app allows quick access to relevant tafsir for a particular passage, faster than fetching and then thumbing through the pages of a book.

 

[Rival]

Arberry as it tries to stay closest to the original text and grammar and uses less interpolation and exegetical interpretation.

It’s often considered the best non-Muslim translation by Muslim and secular scholars, and translations by Muslims often make more of an attempt to portray things in a theologically correct manner (often by adding stuff in brackets that isn’t in the original text).

I bought this today.

 

[JustGeorge]

I bought this today.

Curious how you'll find it. I found my translation lacking.

 

[stevecanuck]

.... the choice between "camel" and "thick rope" in this verse isn't settled even in Arabic.

Yes, it is. The Arabic says "Al jamalu (ال جَمَلُ)", which means "camel". Period.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Yes, it is. The Arabic says "Al jamalu (ال جَمَلُ)", which means "camel". Period.

I clarified the two possible meanings in the post. "Period" according to whom? Arabic-language scholars haven't universally agreed on the meaning of the word in that verse.

 

[stevecanuck]

I clarified the two possible meanings in the post. "Period" according to whom? Arabic-language scholars haven't universally agreed on the meaning of the word in that verse.

Are you saying "al jamalu" can mean rope? All 7 translations in corpus.quran.com say it means 'camel'.

 

[stevecanuck]

I clarified the two possible meanings in the post. "Period" according to whom? Arabic-language scholars haven't universally agreed on the meaning of the word in that verse.

Well, knock me over with a twisted rope. I did indeed find 6 translators who went with 'rope'.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Are you saying "al jamalu" can mean rope? All 7 translations in corpus.quran.com say it means 'camel'.

Yes. The root letters are ج م ل, and these are three of the words they form:

1) Jamal (the U at the end is a diacritic in Arabic to indicate pronunciation and grammatical function), meaning "camel." It is written thus in Arabic (with the dhamma at the end, which gives the U sound in jamalu):

جَمَلُ

2) Jummal, which means "thick rope" (as used for mooring a ship). There's a shadda on the second letter (the meem/M), which denotes a doubling of the letter, and also a fatha, giving an A sound as in the al syllable.

Jummal:

جُمَّل

3) Jamul or juml, depending on the diacritic on the meem (the second letter): If said diacritic is a taskeen, the second letter has no phonetic movement, and the word becomes juml. If the diacritic is a dhamma, the word becomes jamul. Both words mean "thick rope."

Jamul:

جَمُل

Juml:

جُمْل

You can find each of the above words by looking up the root word جمل, without diacritics, in an Arabic dictionary. The first, second, and third variations I listed above are in the following link as the third, fifth, and sixth meanings, respectively:

تعريف و شرح و معنى جمل بالعربي في معاجم اللغة العربية المعجم الوسيط - معجم عربي عربي صفحة 1

معنى جمل, تعريف جمل في قاموس المعاني الفوري مجال البحث مصطلحات المعجم الوسيط ضمن قاموس عربي عربي. معجم شامل يحوي على معاني الكلمات العربية ومعاني الجمل العربية. صفحة 1

www.almaany.com

 

[stevecanuck]

Yes. The root letters are ج م ل, and these are three of the words they form:

1) Jamal (the U at the end is a diacritic in Arabic to indicate pronunciation and grammatical function), meaning "camel." It is written thus in Arabic (with the dhamma at the end, which gives the U sound in jamalu):

جَمَلُ

2) Jummal, which means "thick rope" (as used for mooring a ship). There's a shadda on the second letter (the meem/M), which denotes a doubling of the letter, and also a fatha, giving an A sound as in the al syllable.

Jummal:

جُمَّل

3) Jamul or juml, depending on the diacritic on the meem (the second letter): If said diacritic is a taskeen, the second letter has no phonetic movement, and the word becomes juml. If the diacritic is a dhamma, the word becomes jamul. Both words mean "thick rope."

Jamul:

جَمُل

Juml:

جُمْل

You can find each of the above words by looking up the root word جمل, without diacritics, in an Arabic dictionary. The first, second, and third variations I listed above are in the following link as the third, fifth, and sixth meanings, respectively:

تعريف و شرح و معنى جمل بالعربي في معاجم اللغة العربية المعجم الوسيط - معجم عربي عربي صفحة 1

معنى جمل, تعريف جمل في قاموس المعاني الفوري مجال البحث مصطلحات المعجم الوسيط ضمن قاموس عربي عربي. معجم شامل يحوي على معاني الكلمات العربية ومعاني الجمل العربية. صفحة 1

www.almaany.com

Interesting and educational. However, the score reads about 57 - 6 in favor of camel. Either way the metaphor is clear.

 

[Link]

Peace,

Something I have noticed, is the word "Min" (from) disappears in a lot of translations in a lot of verses. Almost all in many verses, that I see no translation that keeps in it.

How words disappear to me is odd.

 

[lewismilton]

For looking up particular suras, I look at multiple translations because they differ and I have no way of knowing which is more precise. My classic example of differences is 17:104

Sahih International: And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, "Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, We will bring you forth in [one] gathering."

Pickthall: And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

Yusuf Ali: And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

Shakir: And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

Muhammad Sarwar: We told the Israelites after this to settle in the land until Our second promise will come true. We would then gather them all together (on the Day of Judgment).

Mohsin Khan: And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth] View website. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).[Tafsir Al-Qurtubi, Vol. 10, Page 338]

Arberry: And We said to the Children of Israel after him, 'Dwell in the land; and when the promise of the world to come comes to pass, We shall bring you a rabble.'

Out of curiosity of a religion I don't know much about, I've been looking for a good English translation of the Quran (apparently also variously transliterated as "Qu'ran", "Koran", and a lot of other ways.) From what I've been able to determine, Islam considers the Quran to be untranslatable - that is, any version of it that isn't in its native language is an interpretation, rather than a direct translation. I've also heard that there are multiple English translations of it (much like how the Bible has roughly a billion different translations), and that some are better than others.

If we have any Muslim posters or people who are otherwise knowledgeable on the subject, is there a particular English translation you'd recommend? For example, if someone wanted an English version of the Bible commonly accepted as being accurate and correct, I'd probably point them to the King James Version.

 

[Rival]

Out of curiosity of a religion I don't know much about, I've been looking for a good English translation of the Quran (apparently also variously transliterated as "Qu'ran", "Koran", and a lot of other ways.) From what I've been able to determine, Islam considers the Quran to be untranslatable - that is, any version of it that isn't in its native language is an interpretation, rather than a direct translation. I've also heard that there are multiple English translations of it (much like how the Bible has roughly a billion different translations), and that some are better than others.

If we have any Muslim posters or people who are otherwise knowledgeable on the subject, is there a particular English translation you'd recommend? For example, if someone wanted an English version of the Bible commonly accepted as being accurate and correct, I'd probably point them to the King James Version.

I'm not a Muslim but I have many Qurans and here's what I would say:

1. Sahih International is translated by fundamentalists and is the Quran of Daesh. Heavy with [words in brackets] where some of their theological readings have been added. It's given out free on the streets of London but do not recommend apart from to have to hand to see what some convert Muslims may be reading.

2. A. J. Arberry. Very hard to understand but the opposite of Sahih International. No added theology and tries to stay close to Arabic style and syntax. As a reading text I find it quite abominable in English but is very good for getting Quran without someone's theology.

3. Tarif Khalidi's Quran is very modern and very readable, as is Abdel Haleem's. The latter seems to be preferred. I'd recommend both side by side as sometimes one misses what the other gets. Both are compact and good as carry-around Qurans.

4. Pickthall's Quran is a classic translation along with Yusuf Ali's. Ali's is often preferred but I found both slightly unreadable for a regular modern English reader. Again, I'd have both side by side but if you go with one it probably ought be Yusuf Ali but I find Pickthall slightly more readable.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I find Pickthall slightly more readable.

Ditto

It has no footnotes like Yusuf Ali, but Pickthall was an English convert.
He lived during the first WW, and had to migrate to India due to Turkey being with Germany.
( He was under siege in Liverpool )
He embarked on his translating while in India.

He returned to the UK some time later, and was involved with the first purpose-built mosque in Woking, Surrey.
He eventually retired to Cornwall, where he passed away .. may G-d reward him with the best.

 

[sun rise]

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