Beto wants to tax any church if...

[Revoltingest]

I like this idea, but I can see it becoming dicey as soon as folks die in a church fire.

I would say that as soon as there is a profit beyond what one would expect from the services of the nonprofit in question, taxation occurs. The whole point of tax exemption is to promote community services.

Still....being an non-profit shouldn't mean that they get government
services for free, with us secular types paying taxes for them.
Hmmm.....an idea....
Churches aren't essential or even useful to the economy, but business
is. Let businesses get free services (paying no taxes). Churches can
start paying up....no more free ride.

 

[Shad]

it opposes same-sex marriage.

Wow

Beto O'Rourke Proposes an Outrageous Oppression of Church by State | National Review

Beto O’Rourke Is Turning Into a Human Straw Man for Conservatives

I can't find a CNN or Guardian report on it but it looks legit...

So just churches not all religious centers.... Elephant in the room....

 

[Subduction Zone]

When I was an atheist I was all for taxing churches too .

"Civilization will not attain to its perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest." - Zola

But anyway, taxing churches will not actually happen here. This news item bothered me because it does nothing but help the Orange Man; Beto is a non-entity but such comments could potentially hurt all Ds. His views are out of touch with most Americans.

You still should be as a theist. And why do you think that taxing churches cannot happen here? You misunderstand the Constitution if you think that it bans the practise.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Still....being an non-profit shouldn't mean that they get government
services for free, with us secular types paying taxes for them.
Hmmm.....an idea....
Churches aren't essential or even useful to the economy, but business
is. Let businesses get free services (paying no taxes). Churches can
start paying up....no more free ride.

I guess that would depend on the business. Ultimately, the economy is meant to benefit us: providing us with resources like money and goods. Since some businesses are ultimately frivolous and exist only to profit the stakeholders, it wouldn't be fair to exempt them from taxes.

Perhaps the solution is taxing individuals heavily after a certain extreme percentage of wealth. Maybe only tax businesses where the business uses public resources such as roads and security, and where they effect the public such as environmental pollution and resource depletion.

In terms of churches, I think of some small town churches here, that barely get enough money to keep going but folks gladly provide money because of the community and spiritual services they provide versus the giant churches that have no problems with money and sometimes use horrible tactics (prosperity theology) to strip poor folks of their cash.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess that would depend on the business. Ultimately, the economy is meant to benefit us: providing us with resources like money and goods. Since some businesses are ultimately frivolous and exist only to profit the stakeholders, it wouldn't be fair to exempt them from taxes.

We already have sin taxes on tobacco & booze.

Perhaps the solution is taxing individuals heavily after a certain extreme percentage of wealth. Maybe only tax businesses where the business uses public resources such as roads and security, and where they effect the public such as environmental pollution and resource depletion.

In terms of churches, I think of some small town churches here, that barely get enough money to keep going but folks gladly provide money because of the community and spiritual services they provide versus the giant churches that have no problems with money and sometimes use horrible tactics (prosperity theology) to strip poor folks of their cash.

Lots of businesses barely survive....& many many fail.
Does enduring tough financial stress mean no tax obligation generally?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

We already have sin taxes on tobacco & booze.

Yeah, supposedly to curb the misuse of these drugs, but also to tap a very lucrative flow of money.

I would suggest that taxing extravagant wealth is different. Money is a resource (or at least, is symbolic of resources), so the over-accumulation of it effects the populace. It would be like one person in an agricultural community hoarding all the wheat. Taxing this allows it to go back to the community.

Assuming of course our elected officials allocate taxes effectively and fairly, a whole other issue.

Lots of businesses barely survive....& many many fail.
Does enduring tough financial stress mean no tax obligation generally?

Sure. I think that makes sense.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, supposedly to curb the misuse of these drugs, but also to tap a very lucrative flow of money.

I would suggest that taxing extravagant wealth is different. Money is a resource (or at least, is symbolic of resources), so the over-accumulation of it effects the populace. It would be like one person in an agricultural community hoarding all the wheat. Taxing this allows it to go back to the community.

Assuming of course our elected officials allocate taxes effectively and fairly, a whole other issue.



Sure. I think that makes sense.

I'm OK with some having extravagant wealth.
It shouldn't be punished.

 

[sealchan]

Wonderful....taxation based upon agreeing or not with President Wannabee.
I see potential for mischief & strife.

You are reducing basic human equality to a religious or political opinion. I think that it is clear that a church ought to be of equal service to all and not make judgments if they want any "special treatment" of their own. Same sex people pay taxes too.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I'm OK with some having extravagant wealth.
It shouldn't be punished.

I am to an extent. But I think it should be paid for. In other words, you are financially secure, have plenty of extravagance to play with, and have no need to fear financial ruin for your or your family, it is not by any means unreasonable to give back to the community whose resources you are likely using to make your wealth.

 

[sealchan]

Personally I think all churches should be taxed. If they own property they need to pay property tax just as any other business does. If they want to claim that they are non-profit they need to open their books just as any other non-profit organization does.

I agree.

Religion shouldn't be a special category with special rights. They can be compliant to the same laws of any other non-profit.

 

[Revoltingest]

You are reducing basic human equality to a religious or political opinion.

I am?
Nah.

I think that it is clear that a church ought to be of equal service to all and not make judgments if they want any "special treatment" of their own. Same sex people pay taxes too.

I oppose special treatment based upon being a church.
And also based upon the church's opinions & advocacy.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am to an extent. But I think it should be paid for. In other words, you are financially secure, have plenty of extravagance to play with, and have no need to fear financial ruin for your or your family, it is not by any means unreasonable to give back to the community whose resources you are likely using to make your wealth.

Wealth very typically caused taxes to be paid on the way up, eg, income.
Taking a portion of wealth....which many think is too much or ill gotten...
...seems a bad idea borne of envy.

 

[sealchan]

I am not sure that those in power now believe in small government. If you mean less environmental regulations, etc., yes. But they (Rs) seem to be all for expanding the military, seemingly without limit. They are hypocrites- look at the bloated pig they gave us under W, Homeland Security.

Small government seems to be a code word for unregulated business and enthusiastic spending in certain business sectors.

 

[sealchan]

I'm OK with some having extravagant wealth.
It shouldn't be punished.

With great wealth comes great responsibility...

 

[columbus]

I agree.

Religion shouldn't be a special category with special rights. They can be compliant to the same laws of any other non-profit.

Several years ago I was on the board of the local arts co-op during a mayoral campaign.
One of the candidates offered a plan to help balance the local school corporation's budget. This plan included severe cuts to the art program's budget.
One of the board member's husband is a lawyer. He cautioned us to be very careful expressing opinions on the race because we could endanger our not-for-profit status by endorsing a mayoral candidate over art budget cuts. That would be a violation of our status.

However, I couldn't help but notice that churches felt no need to be so careful.
Tom

 

[Regiomontanus]

You still should be as a theist. And why do you think that taxing churches cannot happen here? You misunderstand the Constitution if you think that it bans the practise.

No, it's just that I know of many small, rural churches that struggle financially. They do a lot of good work feeding the poor, etc., and so taxing them will mostly hurt the most vulnerable.

 

[Sand Dancer]

A government agency or a business is one thing, but churches? He just lost most Catholics I think.

Why?

 

[Revoltingest]

With great wealth comes great responsibility...

And some pleasure.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Why?

Perhaps because the official position of the Catholic church is against same-sex marriage? How do you think most Catholics would react to a candidate who is advocating this policy?

 

[columbus]

Perhaps because the official position of the Catholic church is against same-sex marriage? How do you think most Catholics would react to a candidate who is advocating this policy?

It's a common mistake to think that Catholics are a sort of monolithic bloc marching in step behind the Vatican.
Given that Beto is a huge long shot candidate and couldn't get this proposal through any legislature in the US, it's obviously somewhere between meaningless grandstanding and starting a conversation.

You might be surprised by how many Catholics welcome the conversation. Many Catholics vehemently disagree with the RCC policy of opposing marriage equality.(along with lots of other things)

Tom