Bhakti Yoga

[Kalidas]

So there have been a LOT of Advaitin conversations going on as of late, so lets try something new.

So first what is Bhakti yoga? Well I don't know as much as others (like Vinayaka, Ratikala, Shivafan, or Poeticus) but I know a bit. It is the act(that's the yoga part )of being a devoted individual to one or more God(s).

I find bhakti to be exceptionally useful for living a good life. Its not that being an advaitin leads to immorality but I can see how it could happen. The Bhakti thinks of God in all they do and it keeps them in a good frame of mind. Our idea of worship is more like a relationship. God isn't just some abstract idea but an actual entity we invite to our houses. and spend time with.

To be a Bhakti is to be truly blessed, where ever I go I know love is sure to follow.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Bhakti Yoga also moves beyond love of a particular deity. Done correctly, we learn to extend that love and devotion to other people around us, seeing god in them , and knowing that serving people is serving our ishta.

:camp:

 

[StarryNightshade]

Nice description Kalidas, but I'm not sure if I would agree that being Advaitan could potentially lead to immorality. Immorality seems to be something that can apply to anyone, of any faith, of any sect.

 

[Vinayaka]

Kalidas, Saiva Siddhanta doesn't separate the yogas like other schools do. We see the yogas as progressive stages. Bhakti (also called kriya yoga) is stage 2, after seva (karma yoga) , and before yoga (raja) and jnana. There is overlap though. We also see all 3 as necessary to jnana, and jnana is the result of inner discovery, not from reading books.
So the whole way we picture things is in progressive stages. This is also true for Patanjali's 8 stages. We think it;s stages whereas others prefer limbs.

 

[Kalidas]

Nice description Kalidas, but I'm not sure if I would agree that being Advaitan could potentially lead to immorality. Immorality seems to be something that can apply to anyone, of any faith, of any sect.

If course it could but I can see how certain people who are not ready to dive head into such a deep philosophical mind set could act in a way that is not very dharmic. Maybe my choice in words were too harsh but I was in a hurry. I just feel one must learn to walk before they can fly. Besides as I said I don't think its advaitin philosophy that leads to negativity but its the person deciding they now know everything and that anyone that disagrees is a fool. Just giving the other perspective is all.

As I have said before intellectualy I'm an advaitin but I know I am not wuise enough to live the lif in a way that is beneficial to anyone.

Sorry if I offended anyone!

 

[Vinayaka]

If course it could but I can see how certain people who are not ready to dive head into such a deep philosophical mind set could act in a way that is not very dharmic.

I've seen it happen, Kalidas, but not commonly. People who have instinctive tendencies will find any excuses they can. It's no different than Christians who say they've been saved, and can do anything, because since Jesus saved me, it's all good.

The Advaitin who errors this way says, "it's all God, so I'm good. God is in the meat. Adultery is just another of God's dance methods. Somebody (God) had to murder that guy." and blah blah blah. And so it goes. They're right at an ultimate level, but not out here in Relative Reality. But like I said, these people are few and far between.

I'm sure bhaktars could find some excuse too.

 

[StarryNightshade]

If course it could but I can see how certain people who are not ready to dive head into such a deep philosophical mind set could act in a way that is not very dharmic. Maybe my choice in words were too harsh but I was in a hurry. I just feel one must learn to walk before they can fly. Besides as I said I don't think its advaitin philosophy that leads to negativity but its the person deciding they now know everything and that anyone that disagrees is a fool. Just giving the other perspective is all.

As I have said before intellectualy I'm an advaitin but I know I am not wuise enough to live the lif in a way that is beneficial to anyone.

Sorry if I offended anyone!

No offense taken. I'm not entirely Advaitan myself, but I always had the impression that Advaita tended to far more on the intellectual, rather than devotional side of Hinduism.

 

[Madhuri]

Bhakti Yoga also moves beyond love of a particular deity. Done correctly, we learn to extend that love and devotion to other people around us, seeing god in them , and knowing that serving people is serving our ishta.

:camp:

This

 

[Madhuri]

I find it interesting that many people devote themselves to one form of Yoga; Bhakti, Jnana, Karma or Raja. I personally think that there is huge value in practicing all types. Why not be a Bhakta who meditates, acts selflessly and also try to understand the scriptures intellectually? I think that is a perfect combination and I wonder why more people don't see the value in practicing all of them.

Just my thought of the day.

 

[ShivaFan]

It is sort of like asking "What is love?". Not entirely, but sort of.

But love of your Lord certainly helps make it successful. In my opibion, Bhakti Yoga has been proven the most successful yoga in the West (not discounting any of the others, but just saying the facts as I observed).

I am sure others can give you more details, but a fast track is to hang out with some others who are bhaktas. If you do not know any, but have a sincere desire, you will find them anyway, they will "bump into you".

You can start by singing a song to your beloved Divine, one on one at first - any picture of your Divine will do. Offer your food, too. Baby steps. You have a guitar?

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Stormcry]

Here's something truth about Bhakti Yoga. Not offending but my view is that Advaitian Devotees are real devotees of Bhagavan. Advaitians do devotion which is prescribed in Upanishada and Smruti. The essence of devotion is to unite with Brahman. The goal is Nirguna Brahman. The peak of devotion is knowledge itself. This must be true in any case as Upanishads clearly say without knowledge there's no moksha. So doubt bhakti is a part of knowledge. Bhakti is specially for those who can't meditate on Avyakta Nirguna Brahman as Nirguna Bhakti is the toughest job. Only those who are situated in nonduality can practice this.

Now Shastra Pramana for what I've said...

" Those who worship God thinking he's another and I'm another, he doesn't know. He's like an animal. [ Bruhadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.10]

Similarly .....from Vishnu Purana...

" This all world is the manifestation of Sarvabhuta Vishnu. So intelligent persons should see this world indifferent from the self" [Vishnu Purana 1.17.84]

Pralahda says: " Acquire oneness everywhere. Because oneness alone is the real worship of Vishnu" [ Vishnu. 1.17.90 ]

 

[Andal]

Vannakkam,

I do not concern myself with differentiating yogas. For me Narayana is All. Sri Vishnu Saguna and Nirguna. While Advaitans prefer Nirguna, I (and other Bhaktins) prefer Saguna. There is not greater joy than a vision of the Lord. When there is bhakti, all of the other yogas naturally fall into place.

Bhakti is about swimming in the sweet nectar of devotion where both same and difference comfortable coexist. We are inseparable from bhagavan and for me bhakti is about surrender to that divine relationship.

I am not one of discipline so bhakti provides the most relatable path and I cannot resist the though of one day standing in the presence of Sri Hari's smile.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Kalidas]

I find it interesting that many people devote themselves to one form of Yoga; Bhakti, Jnana, Karma or Raja. I personally think that there is huge value in practicing all types. Why not be a Bhakta who meditates, acts selflessly and also try to understand the scriptures intellectually? I think that is a perfect combination and I wonder why more people don't see the value in practicing all of them.

Just my thought of the day.

Don't get me wrong I meditate almost daily, I love reading scripture been reading the Devi Bhagavatam. I started over and am now reading it every week as a part of my weekly puja, I even make notes about it. Now whether or not I am charitable I will just keep that information to myself, I do not believe in making charity a public affair so I will just keep that to myself.

So yes you have a good point, why only have one when we can have them all. BUT if I had to pick one as in a "how I live my life" I would go with Bhakti, at least for now. Maybe when I am older and my childrens children are off starting their life I can retire away and live a life of spiritual stillness, till then I shall live as much of a dharmic life as I can, I personally fine putting my faith in a God figure helps me with this.

@Andal Good point! In bhakti you can include any and all other yogas if you wish.

 

[Kalidas]

Here's something truth about Bhakti Yoga. Not offending but my view is that Advaitian Devotees are real devotees of Bhagavan. Advaitians do devotion which is prescribed in Upanishada and Smruti. The essence of devotion is to unite with Brahman. The goal is Nirguna Brahman. The peak of devotion is knowledge itself. This must be true in any case as Upanishads clearly say without knowledge there's no moksha. So doubt bhakti is a part of knowledge. Bhakti is specially for those who can't meditate on Avyakta Nirguna Brahman as Nirguna Bhakti is the toughest job. Only those who are situated in nonduality can practice this.

Now Shastra Pramana for what I've said...

" Those who worship God thinking he's another and I'm another, he doesn't know. He's like an animal. [ Bruhadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.10]

Similarly .....from Vishnu Purana...

" This all world is the manifestation of Sarvabhuta Vishnu. So intelligent persons should see this world indifferent from the self" [Vishnu Purana 1.17.84]

Pralahda says: " Acquire oneness everywhere. Because oneness alone is the real worship of Vishnu" [ Vishnu. 1.17.90 ]

In all truth and honesty I agree with you on a very intelligent level. Advaitin philosophy makes perfect sense to me on a very intelligent level and it is what drew my attention to Sanata Dharma in the first place. Yet I feel living a life only in the mode of intellect is just not very beneficial to me. Maybe it works well for you and I am happy if it does. Maybe one day I can be as you and live that life, but that is for another time maybe even another lifetime. No rush, I have plenty more lifetimes to go.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but its the person deciding they now know everything and that anyone that disagrees is a fool. Just giving the other perspective is all.

As I have said before intellectually I'm an advaitin but I know I am not wise enough to live the lif in a way that is beneficial to anyone.

The advaitins are not offended. How can one be offended by his own self (because we refuse to accept differences)? Just as for others, 'dharma' is the guide for advaitins. Following 'dharma', one cannot go wrong. Belief may be different, but 'dharma' remains the same.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Kalidas ji


nice thread .....

So there have been a LOT of Advaitin conversations going on as of late, so lets try something new.

this is true and most probably because bhakti in it self is much harder to discuss due to its personal nature .

So first what is Bhakti yoga? ......It is the act(that's the yoga part )of being a devoted individual to one or more God(s).

Bhakti yoga is the process of absorbing oneself in god through loving and joyfull devotional service .

but this can be done in so many different ways dependant on the understanding of the Bhakta
this can be service to the deity and also to mankind , as the Bhaktas awareness develops he continualy sees different ways to serve .

I find bhakti to be exceptionally useful for living a good life. Its not that being an advaitin leads to immorality but I can see how it could happen. The Bhakti thinks of God in all they do and it keeps them in a good frame of mind. Our idea of worship is more like a relationship. God isn't just some abstract idea but an actual entity we invite to our houses. and spend time with.

jai jai you have put it very nicely , the Bhakta realises that God is ever present and that even in our embodied state we have a relationship with the supreme . and yes this is so true ''The Bhakti thinks of God in all they do and it keeps them in a good frame of mind.'' ....
yes , the Bhakta is generaly an extaticaly happy fellow and usualy humble and circumspect in all actions , ....but this does not in any way rule out other yogas as all yogas should be practiced as one .

the true Jnani also sees the benifits of Bhakti ....

quote Vinayaka ....
We also see all 3 as necessary to jnana, and jnana is the result of inner discovery, not from reading books.

I particularly like the comment here on jnana , and it is true to say that the Bhakti yogi is constantly deepening in both knowledge and wisdom through experiencial knowledge rather than aquired Knowledge , .... yes of course he may read shastra but what any practitioner reads is like a seed planted , it must then be nurtured untill it ripens into realisation .

and also perfectly said below ...

quote Madhuri ......I find it interesting that many people devote themselves to one form of Yoga; Bhakti, Jnana, Karma or Raja. I personally think that there is huge value in practicing all types. Why not be a Bhakta who meditates, acts selflessly and also try to understand the scriptures intellectually? I think that is a perfect combination and I wonder why more people don't see the value in practicing all of them.

Just my thought of the day

similarly to my mind through Bhakti one can bring to gether all yogas as one .

To be a Bhakti is to be truly blessed, where ever I go I know love is sure to follow.

jai jai :namaste

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Advaitin who errors this way says, "it's all God, so I'm good. God is in the meat. Adultery is just another of God's dance methods. Somebody (God) had to murder that guy." and blah blah blah. And so it goes. They're right at an ultimate level, but not out here in Relative Reality.

Well, Vinayaka, for Shaiva Siddhantis also, I think (not too sure about it, but you can advise), it is 'Shivo'ham, Shivo'ham'. Yes, an advaitin is Brahman, just like every other thing in the universe. But 'dharma' is for the 'Vyavaharika Satya', which also cannot be denied. So, in our 'Vyavahara' (behavior), day-to-day living, we still have to follow 'dharma'. Damn it, 'dharma' is a tough restraint.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why not be a Bhakta who meditates, acts selflessly and also try to understand the scriptures intellectually?

A true bhakta will by definition act selflessly, since he has no self. He has surrendered his self to the 'ishta' (Prapatti - total surrender, Shri Vaishnavism/Vishishta advaita/Sri Ramanujacharya). It does not matter if he understands scriptures or not, that is not necessarily required of a 'bhakta'. His boat will float solely with 'bhakti'.

 

[Madhuri]

A true bhakta will by definition act selflessly, since he has no self. He has surrendered his self to the 'ishta' (Prapatti - total surrender, Shri Vaishnavism/Vishishta advaita/Sri Ramanujacharya). It does not matter if he understands scriptures or not, that is not necessarily required of a 'bhakta'. His boat will float solely with 'bhakti'.

Of course- I just personally find the experience so much richer with philosophical understanding and the deep communion that comes with meditation.

 

[Kalidas]

The advaitins are not offended. How can one be offended by his own self (because we refuse to accept differences)? Just as for others, 'dharma' is the guide for advaitins. Following 'dharma', one cannot go wrong. Belief may be different, but 'dharma' remains the same.

GOOD!

Yes isn't Dharma grand?