Bible claims/interpretations that don't make sense

[JustWondering]

Thank you for the opportunity to explore these things JW....are your initials a sign???

LOL

OK.....just for the sake of argument, if we (Bible believers) acknowledge that there is a power in existence that can create matter....something from nothing (for we know that all material things are made of matter and that it had to come from somewhere....right?) and what if this power formed matter into living things and made itself known to those it designed to reflect its own attributes, as intelligent beings who are endowed with brains that can accumulate knowledge and grow in wisdom and experience over time? It is not a stretch for us to believe that this power can do whatever it takes to express its will through that same power because it has a purpose in connection with us and this earth. We do not believe that this creative power has limitations like humans do. He is personified in scripture as male...but he has no gender.

Since the sciences study physical evidence of what has transpired down through time, it is largely dependent upon how scientists interpret that evidence. Two scientists in the same field may come to different conclusions about the same evidence. No one can say for sure that the flood never happened...all they can do is state that they believe it didn't.

New Evidence Suggests Biblical Great Flood Happened

The details of the flood account are solid when you understand that the ratios used in shipbuilding for centuries were based on the ratios of the ark's measurements. It is very stable even in rough seas. The physical landscape, (Mt Ararat) is also a well known landmark. But what was the purpose of flooding the world to deal with the situation that had arisen back then? There were so many figurative references used by others to show what would happen in the future. One especially important one was Jesus' words in Matthew 24:37-39. The story in Genesis 6 explains the necessity.

As for the animals on the ark, it wasn't Noah who chose them, it was God who brought them to him. As the Creator of life, he chose the best physical specimens and no doubt blessed their reproductive powers after the flood was over and the land returned to being productive. The ark itself was huge...3 stories high, so there was plenty of room for all the animals as well as their food and water. Specimens of every "kind" were brought in. This was all done to God's specific instructions, so nothing was left to chance.
There were 7 of some animals and only 2 of others....a breeding pair. The further apart genetics gets the less likelihood there is of genetic problems. God had it all under control.

From our point of view, we see nothing in this scenario that is a challenge for an all powerful God, but obviously it becomes a challenge for humans handicapped with limitations in their knowledge and lacking in spiritual discernment. (2 Corinthians 2:14-16) We understand that "spiritual" people discern things that purely "physical" people cannot process.

I accept the flood account quite readily but others may not...that is what faith is all about. (Hebrews 11:1)

During the time that the flood happened according to the bible itself, multiple civilizations were prospering, Egypt and China to name two. Civilizations existing at that time made no records of a great flood when the bible claimed it occurred. Secondly. if the great flood happened as the bible claims, Egypt and China wouldn't exist anymore. That is the most obvious evidence against the great flood story. You can try to fall back on the argument some use that the story refers to a flood in a localized area and not the whole world. However, the bible claim is that god flooded the earth to destroy mankind. So the claim that the flood only happened in one area, doesn't add up. Third, Scientists, say there is not enough water on earth to flood it. Not only is there no evidence to back up the Noah story, there is plenty of evidence to refute it. So, I can't take the Noah story anymore seriously than stories about Thor and Ra. It is obvious mythology.

 

[JustWondering]

Our stance is based on several passages relating to God's law to Israel. The scripture you mentioned is relating to the sanctity of human life. Murder is called "bloodshed" for a good reason.

Noah was the first person to receive God's command regarding the sanctity of blood. He was told....
"Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you.” However, there was one thing that Jehovah commanded them not to eat: “Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat.”(Genesis 1:29; 9:3, 4)

This command was repeated in Israel's law through Moses (Leviticus 17:13-16) and then reiterated to Christians, many of whom were Gentiles who had no compunction about consuming blood. (Acts 15:28-29) It was so important that it it is mentioned with equal weight for all of God's worshippers from the time humans were permitted to eat meat.

But what do you know medically about blood transfusions? To us transfusing blood is the same as consuming it any other way. If patients cannot eat, they are fed intravenously.

The following video was put out by the Australian Government, warning about the dangers of blood transfusion medicine. It highlights why people need to be cautious and why there are bloodless techniques developed to make blood transfusions today, basically unnecessary. Listen for the words "Morbidity" and "mortality" and understand the seriousness of what is stated by these experts in this field of medicine.
Whole hospitals dedicated to bloodless medicine are springing up all over the world.

For Media | National Blood Authority

As I said, the concept of blood transfusions didn't exist back then when the verses were written. The main reason for not consuming blood was because it could make you sick and that some pagan rituals involved the consumption of blood.

I have to question the benevolence of a god that would forbid things that could save lives and avoid human suffering. I would have also have to question the intellect of a god that made blood transfusions possible when he doesn't want such things to occur.

 

[JustWondering]

Actually, it is the only celebration commanded for Christians. Just as Israel had all their celebrations specifically commanded by God after the golden calf incident, (which showed him that humans cannot be trusted to invent their own festivals) so this is the only one that Christ said to "keep doing". This doesn't mean we can't celebrate anything else, like a wedding or an anniversary or any other family gathering.

We will just avoid any celebrations that have a pagan origin because they would naturally be offensive to God.
We don't need to invent occasions to have get-togethers, especially when they have been borrowed from worshippers of false gods ( 2 Corinthians 6:14-18) we are not supposed to touch them.
....we can have occasions to gather for no reason at all....not dictated to by a date on a calendar where everyone just follows along like sheep to the commercial slaughter
....usually its just excuse to have a booze up anyway.

We have no prohibition on alcohol but there is a prohibition on drunkenness. (Proverbs 23:29-33)

Birthdays for example, were not celebrated by Biblical Jews, which is why you will not find Jesus' birthdate recorded in scripture. The exact date of his death is, however.

December 25 was a festival celebrating the Saturnalia in Rome where the customs of Christmas came from.....feasting, merry making, overindulgence in food and alcohol, and gift giving. Northern customs were added like the decorated tree and the yule log....and of course the jolly old man in the red suit who is so generous to rich kids but stingy to the poor ones. What are kids to think?

It is nothing but a commercial greed-fest.

Since Jesus was Jewish, he would not have celebrated his own birthday, let alone anyone else's. The customs associated with birthdays have spiritistic overtones because the birthdate of a child was used by astrologers to cast their horoscope. The lighted candles on a birthday cake were supposed to keep evil spirits away as were the birthday wishes.
God's people were forbidden to adopt the ways and customs of the pagan nations. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12; 20-21) Some ignored the memo.



Whoa...where did you get that idea? That is not a belief of ours. Jesus turned water into the finest wine, as it is stated in the account, the director of the feast complemented the groom on reserving the fine wine till last.
Usually they served the good wine first and then when people were tipsy, they didn't care about quality anymore.

(John 2:9-10)

Jesus drank wine on the night of the Passover like everyone else.

My friends must have belonged to a weird/strict branch of JW's or something then. For celebrating, you're right for the most part. However, I don't see why it would be wrong to celebrate someone's birthday. First off, your not bronze age Jews. I had a Jewish friend and I'm pretty sure he celebrated birthdays. Second, it's your family's celebration. If you don't like candles, don't use them.

I remember clearly, my JW friends telling me on numerous occasions that wine back in Jesus's day was not alcoholic. Guess they were taught wrong as a joke?

 

[JustWondering]

Do what?! How can you say you're "familiar" with this, when we don't teach this?

Please, be accurate.



Not quite true. We celebrate weddings, anniversaries, and other non-pagan occasions.

I'm beggin ya, please check your accuracy.

As I said in the OP, I got this directly from my JW friends. If they got it wrong, or were taught wrong *shrugs*.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I said in the OP, I got this directly from my JW friends. If they got it wrong, or were taught wrong *shrugs*.

It is amazing how many Christians make that claim, and it also shows that they do not understand Jesus's miracle at the wedding story.

For those that do not drink you serve the "good stuff" first, when people can tell the difference. What is a little bit amazing is that that was true even in the time of Jesus.

 

[Deeje]

During the time that the flood happened according to the bible itself, multiple civilizations were prospering, Egypt and China to name two. Civilizations existing at that time made no records of a great flood when the bible claimed it occurred. Secondly. if the great flood happened as the bible claims, Egypt and China wouldn't exist anymore. That is the most obvious evidence against the great flood story. You can try to fall back on the argument some use that the story refers to a flood in a localized area and not the whole world. However, the bible claim is that god flooded the earth to destroy mankind. So the claim that the flood only happened in one area, doesn't add up. Third, Scientists, say there is not enough water on earth to flood it. Not only is there no evidence to back up the Noah story, there is plenty of evidence to refute it. So, I can't take the Noah story anymore seriously than stories about Thor and Ra. It is obvious mythology.

According to my research, the first civilization was in Mesopotamia, they say around 4,000 BCE (give or take a couple centuries)

They begin by stating...."Homo sapiens, or human beings, have been around for nearly 300,000 years. For most of that time, however, they had no written history. During this time of “prehistory,” humans spent most of their lives moving from place to place, hunting for food, building crude shelters, and protecting themselves from wild animals."

So there is no doubt that they begin their assumptions about man's history from an already pre-conceived idea.
Prehistory in their estimations began 300,000 years ago.

"The people of early civilizations needed water for drinking and for their crops, so they settled near rivers. One civilization, called Mesopotamia, was established between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now the nation of Iraq. The capital of this civilization was the city of Babylon."

Beginnings and Early Civilizations

That ties in with what the Bible says...though science likes to make statements about the dates.
Radio-carbon dating is used to determine the age of the remains of something once living. But how accurate is it really?

I don't usually refer to AIG, but there is a good description of how radio-carbon dating works in this link...

Carbon-14 Dating—Understanding the Basics

"The most well-known of all the radiometric dating methods is radiocarbon dating. Although many people think radiocarbon dating is used to date rocks, it is limited to dating things that contain the element carbon and were once alive (like fossils)."

Many people assume that rocks are dated at “millions of years” based on radiocarbon (carbon-14) dating. But that’s not the case. The reason is simple. Carbon-14 can yield dates of only “thousands of years” before it all breaks down."

Now, the oldest continuous civilization is the Chinese (dating from around 2,100BCE to the present day.)

According to the following link, the timeline of "history" is only accurately traceable to about 3,300 years ago.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ancient_history

So this dating method, if it is misinterpreted, or because conditions on earth were drastically altered at some stage to interfere with the rate of radiation entering the earth's atmosphere, then C-14 dating method would not be a truthful indication of the age of very ancient things.

The Bible deals with civilizations after the flood. What existed before that was erased. Babylon was mentioned first as a result humans again defying the commands of the Creator. Babylon was the springboard from which all other civilizations originated. Their stories and legends and religious ideas all come from Babylon. It was prophesied that Babylon would never be rebuilt...and it never was....but her ideas permeated every culture on earth and still do.

So, to my knowledge, science has a method of dating artifacts that is only accurate for things a few thousand years old....not many hundreds of thousands, or millions of years old. What is indicated in fossils doesn't give science the full story, so they fill in the blanks with guesswork based on their pre-conceived ideas about evolution.

That is how I see it.

 

[Deeje]

As I said, the concept of blood transfusions didn't exist back then when the verses were written. The main reason for not consuming blood was because it could make you sick and that some pagan rituals involved the consumption of blood.

I have to question the benevolence of a god that would forbid things that could save lives and avoid human suffering. I would have also have to question the intellect of a god that made blood transfusions possible when he doesn't want such things to occur.

You didn't watch the video did you? If you have no desire to be informed then there is no point in offering you explanations. The video was not put out by Jehovah's Witnesses...it was posted by the Australian Government's Blood Authority to warn physicians of the dangers associated with this practice. Look up the words "morbidity" and "mortality" that are frequently used in this video by physicians who are experts in this field of medicine.

Educate yourself please. Ignorance has no place in these discussions.

 

[Deeje]

My friends must have belonged to a weird/strict branch of JW's or something then.....

I remember clearly, my JW friends telling me on numerous occasions that wine back in Jesus's day was not alcoholic. Guess they were taught wrong as a joke?

Or you are mistaken that they were JW's. We have no weird/strict sects.
Jesus turned water into wine, not grape juice. The Bible does not say "grape juice", it says "fine wine". I think you will find that your friends were Seventh Day Adventists. Would you even know the difference?

For celebrating, you're right for the most part. However, I don't see why it would be wrong to celebrate someone's birthday. First off, your not bronze age Jews. I had a Jewish friend and I'm pretty sure he celebrated birthdays. Second, it's your family's celebration. If you don't like candles, don't use them.

Jesus was Jewish but his followers did not remain in the corrupted Jewish religion that continued after Christ's death, down the present. God had fulfilled his covenant, but the Jews had repeatedly broken it. According to Jesus, he was finished with them. (Matthew 23:37-39) They continue to reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah to this day.

Those who adopt pagan celebrations are breaking the commands of God. Jews were commanded..."When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. " (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

Anything that involved spiritism (demon inspired works) was "detestable" to God. It is no less detestable to him now. (Malachi 3:6)

 

[Subduction Zone]

According to my research, the first civilization was in Mesopotamia, they say around 4,000 BCE (give or take a couple centuries)

They begin by stating...."Homo sapiens, or human beings, have been around for nearly 300,000 years. For most of that time, however, they had no written history. During this time of “prehistory,” humans spent most of their lives moving from place to place, hunting for food, building crude shelters, and protecting themselves from wild animals."

So there is no doubt that they begin their assumptions about man's history from an already pre-conceived idea.
Prehistory in their estimations began 300,000 years ago.

"The people of early civilizations needed water for drinking and for their crops, so they settled near rivers. One civilization, called Mesopotamia, was established between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now the nation of Iraq. The capital of this civilization was the city of Babylon."

Beginnings and Early Civilizations

That ties in with what the Bible says...though science likes to make statements about the dates.
Radio-carbon dating is used to determine the age of the remains of something once living. But how accurate is it really?

I don't usually refer to AIG, but there is a good description of how radio-carbon dating works in this link...

Carbon-14 Dating—Understanding the Basics

"The most well-known of all the radiometric dating methods is radiocarbon dating. Although many people think radiocarbon dating is used to date rocks, it is limited to dating things that contain the element carbon and were once alive (like fossils)."

Many people assume that rocks are dated at “millions of years” based on radiocarbon (carbon-14) dating. But that’s not the case. The reason is simple. Carbon-14 can yield dates of only “thousands of years” before it all breaks down."

Now, the oldest continuous civilization is the Chinese(dating from around 2,100BCE to the present day.)

According to the following link, the timeline of "history" is only accurately traceable to only about 3,300 years ago.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ancient_history

So this dating method, if it is misinterpreted, or because conditions on earth were drastically altered at some stage to interfere with the rate of radiation entering the earth's atmosphere, then C-14 dating method would not be an truthful indication of the age of very ancient things.

The Bible deals with civilizations after the flood. What existed before that was erased. Babylon was mentioned first as a result humans again defying the commands of the Creator. Babylon was the springboard from which all other civilizations originated. Their stories and legends and religious ideas all come from Babylon. It was prophesied that Babylon would never be rebuilt...and it never was....but her ideas permeated every culture on earth and still do.

So, to my knowledge, science has a method of dating artifacts that is only accurate for things a few thousand years old....not many hundreds of thousands, or millions of years old. What is indicated in fossils doesn't give science the full story, so they fill in the blanks with guesswork based on their pre-conceived ideas about evolution.

That is how I see it.

Yes, C14 can only be used for very recent events. Those less than 50,000 years at the most, and when one gets over 20,000 years contamination becomes a problem that one must be ready to deal with. It is of little to no use for human evolution as a result. Men have been homo sapiens for at least 200,000 years.

As to the flood we have known that there was no such event since before Darwin's time.

And no, there are no such "pre-conceived ideas about evolution". Why can't you tell the truth about the theory of evolution? When you post obviously false claims it only makes all of your work suspect.

Lastly when was Babylon predicted never to be rebuilt? That sounds like you might be conflating the failed Tyre prophecy with a prophecy about Babylon.

 

[tayla]

If any of you have any bible verses/claims and/or interpretations of them that don't make sense to you that you would like to discuss/debate, feel free to share.

Yes, some of my key objections from the Hebrew Bible:

1. Adam, who was a farmer with domesticated animals, as the first human. But science says this was 200,000 years ago. But farming and domestication of animals began 10,000 BCE.
2. If pain and suffering occurred at the fall of man, this implies rapid evolution for all the carnivores and other creatures that eat others or that live in symbiotic relationships.
3. Rapid evolution after the flood for all the "kinds" to evolve into the species belonging to each kind. For example, the dog "kind" of animals evolved from two dog-like ancestors to become wolves, hyenas, coyotes, foxes, dogs, etc, etc.
4. The Exodus of 3 million people from Egypt, wandering around in close proximity in the barren desert with no manna for their animals. It's hard for even one person to live in such a place.
5. The conquests of Joshua took place over 800 years, not in one generation. And some of the cities mentioned were not captured at all.
6. The kingdom of David and Solomon was small.

 

[JustWondering]

My favorite part of Noah's story is when he became an alcoholic. Do you think he became one because he couldn't save everyone or was the Wine just that good.

I'm just imagining an illustrated bible book that doesn't hide the crazy stuff in the bible. I think people's heads would explode.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm just imagining an illustrated bible book that doesn't hide the crazy stuff in the bible. I think people's heads would explode.

Especially Ezekiel 23 20-21. I think that might make my head explode if I saw it too.

 

[JustWondering]

According to my research, the first civilization was in Mesopotamia, they say around 4,000 BCE (give or take a couple centuries)

They begin by stating...."Homo sapiens, or human beings, have been around for nearly 300,000 years. For most of that time, however, they had no written history. During this time of “prehistory,” humans spent most of their lives moving from place to place, hunting for food, building crude shelters, and protecting themselves from wild animals."

So there is no doubt that they begin their assumptions about man's history from an already pre-conceived idea.
Prehistory in their estimations began 300,000 years ago.

"The people of early civilizations needed water for drinking and for their crops, so they settled near rivers. One civilization, called Mesopotamia, was established between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now the nation of Iraq. The capital of this civilization was the city of Babylon."

Beginnings and Early Civilizations

That ties in with what the Bible says...though science likes to make statements about the dates.
Radio-carbon dating is used to determine the age of the remains of something once living. But how accurate is it really?

I don't usually refer to AIG, but there is a good description of how radio-carbon dating works in this link...

Carbon-14 Dating—Understanding the Basics

"The most well-known of all the radiometric dating methods is radiocarbon dating. Although many people think radiocarbon dating is used to date rocks, it is limited to dating things that contain the element carbon and were once alive (like fossils)."

Many people assume that rocks are dated at “millions of years” based on radiocarbon (carbon-14) dating. But that’s not the case. The reason is simple. Carbon-14 can yield dates of only “thousands of years” before it all breaks down."

Now, the oldest continuous civilization is the Chinese (dating from around 2,100BCE to the present day.)

According to the following link, the timeline of "history" is only accurately traceable to about 3,300 years ago.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ancient_history

So this dating method, if it is misinterpreted, or because conditions on earth were drastically altered at some stage to interfere with the rate of radiation entering the earth's atmosphere, then C-14 dating method would not be a truthful indication of the age of very ancient things.

The Bible deals with civilizations after the flood. What existed before that was erased. Babylon was mentioned first as a result humans again defying the commands of the Creator. Babylon was the springboard from which all other civilizations originated. Their stories and legends and religious ideas all come from Babylon. It was prophesied that Babylon would never be rebuilt...and it never was....but her ideas permeated every culture on earth and still do.

So, to my knowledge, science has a method of dating artifacts that is only accurate for things a few thousand years old....not many hundreds of thousands, or millions of years old. What is indicated in fossils doesn't give science the full story, so they fill in the blanks with guesswork based on their pre-conceived ideas about evolution.

That is how I see it.

So around 2300 BC, according to the bible, the world flooded (Which couldn't happen because there is not enough water on earth for that to happen). Only those on one boat survived to repopulate the earth (which is very unlikely because humans and all land based life would be horribly inbred). Then, roughly around 2200-2100 BC, god confused peoples languages and scattered them around the globe. It doesn't add up. There are written records from civilizations going back to around 1500 BC. The only cultures that make note of a great flood are those in Mesopotamia. Other cultures, specifically those on other continents have vastly different creation myths, are polytheistic, and their traditional histories have nothing in common with what's in the bible. So that doesn't back up the bibles claims and timeline either. The creation stories in the bible are myths. Also, carbon dating isn't the only tool they have for dating things.

 

[JustWondering]

You didn't watch the video did you? If you have no desire to be informed then there is no point in offering you explanations. The video was not put out by Jehovah's Witnesses...it was posted by the Australian Government's Blood Authority to warn physicians of the dangers associated with this practice. Look up the words "morbidity" and "mortality" that are frequently used in this video by physicians who are experts in this field of medicine.

Educate yourself please. Ignorance has no place in these discussions.

I've seen it before. Blood transfusions have saved thousands upon thousands of lives. Pointing out that the practice has its risks doesn't invalidate it as a legitimate, life saving medical procedure. Every medical procedure has risks.

 

[JustWondering]

Or you are mistaken that they were JW's. We have no weird/strict sects.
Jesus turned water into wine, not grape juice. The Bible does not say "grape juice", it says "fine wine". I think you will find that your friends were Seventh Day Adventists. Would you even know the difference?

I am not mistaken. They were JW's (they pushed watch towers on me all the time) and they made the claim (on multiple occasions) that wine wasn't alcoholic back in the day.

Jesus was Jewish but his followers did not remain in the corrupted Jewish religion that continued after Christ's death, down the present. God had fulfilled his covenant, but the Jews had repeatedly broken it. According to Jesus, he was finished with them. (Matthew 23:37-39) They continue to reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah to this day.

Those who adopt pagan celebrations are breaking the commands of God. Jews were commanded..."When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. " (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

Anything that involved spiritism (demon inspired works) was "detestable" to God. It is no less detestable to him now. (Malachi 3:6)

Ok, what does any of that have to do with celebrating someone's birthday, or mothers day, or May the 4th?

 

[YoursTrue]

As I said, the concept of blood transfusions didn't exist back then when the verses were written. The main reason for not consuming blood was because it could make you sick and that some pagan rituals involved the consumption of blood.
.

How would you know that? I don't know of any medical journals written at that time which said consuming blood could make a person sick. People consume blood today, I haven't seen that it makes them sick. Blood as food - Wikipedia

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

I'm just imagining an illustrated bible book that doesn't hide the crazy stuff in the bible. I think people's heads would explode.

I'm pretty sure I had one as a kid, but it only did the old testament.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm pretty sure I had one as a kid, but it only did the old testament.

Really? Forget the Ezekiel verse that I mentioned. Did it have this one:

Psalm 137:9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Really? Forget the Ezekiel verse that I mentioned. Did it have this one:

Psalm 137:9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

I didn't finish it so I don't know. But I remember a scene in which they fed a bunch of babies to alligators and stuff like that. The guards doing it look pretty happy about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I didn't finish it so I don't know. But I remember a scene in which they fed a bunch of babies to alligators and stuff like that. The guards doing it look pretty happy about it.

Yes, but those were probably guards doing that to Israelites. You could feel empathy for the babies and resent the evil guards. The verse that I cited was the other way around. The "good guys" were the ones smacking babies heads into rocks.

ETA: And I will bring up the other verse I brought up:

Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.