Bible contradictions

[McBell]

This seems to be cut-and-paste propaganda. Again, the word "Catholic" doesn't appear in the Bible in any translation.

I am not sure that that is what is being talked about:

denomination (n.)​

late 14c., denominacioun, "a naming, act of giving a name to," from Old French denominacion "nominating, naming," from Latin denominationem (nominative denominatio) "a calling by anything other than the proper name, metonymy," noun of action from past-participle stem of denominare "to name," from de- "completely" (see de-) + nominare "to name," from nomen "name" (from PIE root *no-men- "name").​

 

[Kathryn]

The bible is a collection of many books written over thousands of years by many different authors, using many different types of styles of writing. It's not even meant to be a history book or a science book. The point is the doctrine in my opinion.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This seems to be cut-and-paste propaganda. Again, the word "Catholic" doesn't appear in the Bible in any translation.

The word comes from the Greek katholikos (καθολικός) meaning "through the whole," that is "universal," "world-wide," "all inclusive."

The early Christians felt that Jesus was bringing the God of the Jews to all mankind, Jews and gentiles (non-Jews) alike. Just look at the creed: "Credo Ecclesiam unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam." Its translation would perhaps be best rendered as “we profess the one, holy, universal and apostolic Church.”

 

[jimb]

I am not sure that that is what is being talked about:

denomination (n.)​

late 14c., denominacioun, "a naming, act of giving a name to," from Old French denominacion "nominating, naming," from Latin denominationem (nominative denominatio) "a calling by anything other than the proper name, metonymy," noun of action from past-participle stem of denominare "to name," from de- "completely" (see de-) + nominare "to name," from nomen "name" (from PIE root *no-men- "name").​

The post begins with "Sorry, but it is true that the Catholic church was the first Christian denomination." And also contains "Catholics broke away from Judaism while claiming their church to be the fulfillment of Judaism, and the start of an incredible new covenant with all of humanity." and
"Catholics believe the covenant God held with only the Jews was now extended to include all of humanity. They continued, as their Jewish forefathers, to believe in sacred tradition, sacred scripture, and to have a high priest, now in Rome."

So clearly the post was in defense of Catholicism.

 

[Kathryn]

The post begins with "Sorry, but it is true that the Catholic church was the first Christian denomination." And also contains "Catholics broke away from Judaism while claiming their church to be the fulfillment of Judaism, and the start of an incredible new covenant with all of humanity." and
"Catholics believe the covenant God held with only the Jews was now extended to include all of humanity. They continued, as their Jewish forefathers, to believe in sacred tradition, sacred scripture, and to have a high priest, now in Rome."

So clearly the post was in defense of Catholicism.

LOL you say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[jimb]

The word comes from the Greek katholikos (καθολικός) meaning "through the whole," that is "universal," "world-wide," "all inclusive."

The early Christians felt that Jesus was bringing the God of the Jews to all mankind, Jews and gentiles (non-Jews) alike. Just look at the creed: "Credo Ecclesiam unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam." Its translation would perhaps be best rendered as “we profess the one, holy, universal and apostolic Church.”

Again, I wrote that the word "Catholic" doesn't appear in the Bible in any translation. It is a reference to a specific denomination, not the meaning of the word "catholic", i.e., universal. (BTW, the Catholic denomination was never the universal denomination.)

 

[McBell]

The post begins with "Sorry, but it is true that the Catholic church was the first Christian denomination." And also contains "Catholics broke away from Judaism while claiming their church to be the fulfillment of Judaism, and the start of an incredible new covenant with all of humanity." and
"Catholics believe the covenant God held with only the Jews was now extended to include all of humanity. They continued, as their Jewish forefathers, to believe in sacred tradition, sacred scripture, and to have a high priest, now in Rome."

So clearly the post was in defense of Catholicism.

You seem to have completely missed the point.

That being that Catholic was the first denominational named group of Christians.

 

[jimb]

LOL you say that like it's a bad thing.

Catholics make the false claim that it was the first denomination (synonymous with the first real church), yet there is no proof of this. Again, the word "catholic" doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible.

Acts 11:26b ,"So it was that for an entire year they met with the church and taught a great many people, and it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called “Christians.” (Notice it says "Christians", not "Catholics").

Catholics make a wholly unfounded claim that their denomination is the first church. That is a false boast and makes them seem special. If any group could make that claim with any validity, it is the Jews. The first believers were all Jews, disciples of the Jewish Messiah. Gentiles were added later, after being evangelized by Jews.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Again, I wrote that the word "Catholic" doesn't appear in the Bible in any translation. It is a reference to a specific denomination, not the meaning of the word "catholic", i.e., universal. (BTW, the Catholic denomination was never the universal denomination.)

In Paul’s letters to the Romans, Paul makes a claim that “through [Jesus] we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake” and even the early Roman Christians “are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ” (Romans 1: 5-6). Paul’s teachings included all people in salvation, and this teaching appealed to the people of the extensive Greco-Roman empire that Jesus did not personally visit.

That Paul didn't use the word "catholic" (small "c" being deliberate) is neither here nor there. What he was teaching was the universality of salvation.

 

[McBell]

Catholics make the false claim that it was the first denomination (synonymous with the first real church), yet there is no proof of this.

What is the name of the first Christian denomination?

Again, the word "catholic" doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible.

What does this have to with it?

Acts 11:26b ,"So it was that for an entire year they met with the church and taught a great many people, and it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called “Christians.” (Notice it says "Christians", not "Catholics").

You do understand that Catholic is a subgroup of the group Christian, right?
I ask because it appears that you are not aware of that fact.

Catholics make a wholly unfounded claim that their denomination is the first church.

Actually, the claim is that they are the first Christian church...

That is a false boast and makes them seem special. If any group could make that claim with any validity, it is the Jews.

You do know that Jews are not Christians, right?

The first believers were all Jews, disciples of the Jewish Messiah.

Which is not Christianity

 

[Kathryn]

Catholics make the false claim that it was the first denomination (synonymous with the first real church), yet there is no proof of this. Again, the word "catholic" doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible.

Acts 11:26b ,"So it was that for an entire year they met with the church and taught a great many people, and it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called “Christians.” (Notice it says "Christians", not "Catholics").

Catholics make a wholly unfounded claim that their denomination is the first church. That is a false boast and makes them seem special. If any group could make that claim with any validity, it is the Jews. The first believers were all Jews, disciples of the Jewish Messiah. Gentiles were added later, after being evangelized by Jews.

Lots and lots of words we use don't show up in the bible - so what?

You don't seem to understand that Catholics also consider themselves to be Christians.

 

[jimb]

You seem to have completely missed the point.

That being that Catholic was the first denominational named group of Christians.

That simply isn't true There were many references to specific Christian groups named in the Bible. Have a look at Revelation 1-3, where the groups were addressed by physical location, just as the Catholic denomination is referred to as the church at Rome.

The history of the Eastern Orthodox Church is the formation, events, and transformation of the Eastern Orthodox Church through time. According to the Eastern Orthodox tradition, the history of the Eastern Orthodox Church is traced back to Jesus Christ and the Apostles.

Here are some facts...

Until 1054 AD Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism were branches of the same body, so they can just as well make the claim that they were "the first church".

All Christian denominations are rooted in the life and ministry of Jesus Christ and share the same origins. Early believers were part of one body, one church. However, during the ten centuries following the resurrection, the church experienced many disagreements and fractions. Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism were the results of these early schisms.

Cultural differences played a major role too, with the Eastern mindset more inclined toward philosophy, mysticism, and ideology, and the Western outlook guided more by a practical and legal mentality.

In 1054 AD a formal split occurred when Pope Leo IX (leader of the Roman branch) excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael Cerularius (leader of the Eastern branch), who in turn condemned the pope in mutual excommunication.

In other words, Catholic boasting is nothing but propaganda.

 

[jimb]

What is the name of the first Christian denomination?


What does this have to with it?


You do understand that Catholic is a subgroup of the group Christian, right?
I ask because it appears that you are not aware of that fact.


Actually, the claim is that they are the first Christian church...


You do know that Jews are not Christians, right?


Which is not Christianity

Read the post immediately above this one.

To answer your specific claims...

There is no specific name of the first Christian denomination. The first churches were know by their location, e.g., the church at Ephesus, the church at Galatia, etc. (Read the first part of Revelation.)

If the Catholic claim of being the first denomination, why isn't that claim in the Bible? The Eastern Orthodox can make the same claim.

The Catholic denomination claims to be "the one true church", which is clearly offensive. They never claim to be a subgroup!

Some Jews are Christians! I am a Jew and a Christian! Jesus was a Jew and all Jesus' first disciples were Jews (and wrote the entire Bible (with the sole exception of Luke)). Gentiles came in later.

Are you seriously claiming that the first disciples of Jesus Christ, all of whom were Jews, were not Christians??? They believed that Jesus was the Messiah, sent by God, to redeem humanity. => THAT IS THE FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH OF CHRISTIANITY <=

 

[Kathryn]

Now Catholics are boasting.

 

[jimb]

Lots and lots of words we use don't show up in the bible - so what?

You don't seem to understand that Catholics also consider themselves to be Christians.

I understand perfectly that Catholics also consider themselves to be Christians.

What I object to is their claims that a) they were the first Christians and b) they make the absurd boastful claim that their denomination "is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic."

In other words, they make the shameful boast that their denomination is "the sole church of Christ", which is a lie!!!

 

[Kathryn]

I understand perfectly that Catholics also consider themselves to be Christians.

What I object to is their claims that a) they were the first Christians and b) they make the absurd boastful claim that their denomination "is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic."

In other words, they make the shameful boast that their denomination is "the sole church of Christ", which is a lie!!!

OK, if that's what you believe. By the way, source please (I prefer for it to be a Catholic source).

By the way, I am a convert to Catholicism, and when I was converting (which was no easy task but I digress), one of the classes was on what the Church teaches about denominations and from what I recall, the Catholic church does not consider itself a denomination of Christianity.

 

[McBell]

Read the post immediately above this one.

To answer your specific claims...

There is no specific name of the first Christian denomination. The first churches were know by their location, e.g., the church at Ephesus, the church at Galatia, etc. (Read the first part of Revelation.)

If the Catholic claim of being the first denomination, why isn't that claim in the Bible? The Eastern Orthodox can make the same claim.

The Catholic denomination claims to be "the one true church", which is clearly offensive. They never claim to be a subgroup!

Some Jews are Christians! I am a Jew and a Christian! Jesus was a Jew and all Jesus' first disciples were Jews (and wrote the entire Bible (with the sole exception of Luke)). Gentiles came in later.

Are you seriously claiming that the first disciples of Jesus Christ, all of whom were Jews, were not Christians??? They believed that Jesus was the Messiah, sent by God, to redeem humanity. => THAT IS THE FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH OF CHRISTIANITY <=

The first named Christian denomination had a name.
What is that name?
Catholics claim it is "Catholic."
You claim it was not "Catholic".
So what was it?


I have no idea why the word 'Catholic' is not in the Bible.

Does the Bible state which denomination was first one?
I assume it does not, because you would have presented it, right?


Many Christians claim their preferred denomination is the One True Church.

I would ask what exactly is a Jewish Christian, but that should most likely have its own thread so as not to derail this one.

 

[Kathryn]

The first named Christian denomination had a name.
What is that name?
Catholics claim it is "Catholic."
You claim it was not "Catholic".
So what was it?


I have no idea why the word 'Catholic' is not in the Bible.

Does the Bible state which denomination was first one?
I assume it does not, because you would have presented it, right?


Many Christians claim their preferred denomination is the One True Church.

I would ask what exactly is a Jewish Christian, but that should most likely have its own thread so as not to derail this one.

The word "catholic" means "universal."

Catholics do not consider themselves a denomination of Christianity for the record.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This seems to be cut-and-paste propaganda. Again, the word "Catholic" doesn't appear in the Bible in any translation.

Why does it matter if the word is in the Bible? That is a weird requirement. And the meaning of words changes over time. When it was first used the word "catholic" meant "universal". In the idea that there was only one real church of Jesus Christ.

Historical use​

Ignatius of Antioch​

The first use of the term "Catholic Church" (literally meaning "universal church") was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50–140) in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD).[1] He died in Rome, with his relics located in the Basilica of San Clemente al Laterano.
The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 AD to Christians in Smyrna. Exhorting Christians to remain closely united with their bishop, he wrote:

Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.[21][25][26]

 

[Kathryn]

I was Methodist for many years and we always said "catholic" in the Apostle's Creed, not "universal." "I believe in one catholic and apostolic church."