Sand Dancer
Currently catless
No. The first one was written around 50 years, I think, after Jesus died.
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Bible contradictions
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
No. The first one was written around 50 years, I think, after Jesus died.
Except for Hellfire. The word doesn’t iciest in the Greek. (But that is, for sure, one God-dishonoring doctrine!
Then we have the Trinity. But when you read Exodus 20:1-6 & Deuteronomy 6:4, we find the Israelites only had one God, Yahweh.
And then, on top of all this, God’s Name - the Tetragrammaton - is removed from the Bible! Someone’s trying to defame & discredit Him, using His own Book!
What solid evidence supports this? There is nothing solid to base this on, such a viewpoint is promulgated to discredit the prophecies Jesus gave concerning the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E., to say it was written after the fact.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
What Bible are we talking about? There have been different collections of books in the Bible over the course of history by different Christian sects.
At any rate, contradictions only matter if you believe 'the Bible' is inerrant.
At any rate, contradictions only matter if you believe 'the Bible' is inerrant.
Noöne knows who wrote the gospels -- or most of the rest of the Bible, for that matter. Attribution to Matthew, mark, Luke, John, &al. didn't appear in early transcriptions. Later attribution to prestigious persons served to give the writings more authority.
As for contradictions, just google. The web's full of lists.
https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBAttachments/101_Contradictions_In_The_Bible.pdf
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Scholars give a date range for Mark, the earliest, as 65-75CE.
I wonder if that's ever been attempted here before?
Matthew 28:1-10 says that when Mary Magdalene went to the tomb that she was told by an angel that the Messiah had risen and would be seen in Galilee. Matthew then says that she ran "with great joy" to tell the disciples and while on the way that she met the Messiah (this occurred before she got to the disciples).
However, John 20:1 and 2 say that when she came to the tomb and didn’t find the Messiah there, that she ran to the disciples and told them that He had been taken away and that she didn’t know where He was. In Matthew she knew where He was (or at least had been) and where He would be, but in John she didn’t.
How can this be reconciled?
However, John 20:1 and 2 say that when she came to the tomb and didn’t find the Messiah there, that she ran to the disciples and told them that He had been taken away and that she didn’t know where He was. In Matthew she knew where He was (or at least had been) and where He would be, but in John she didn’t.
How can this be reconciled?
"and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene." Matthew 2:23 New International Version
It is referring to the town of Nazareth and how Jesus' residence there fulfilled a prophecy about him being called a Nazarene. This verse connects the location of Nazareth with the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah. However, it's worth noting that the specific Old Testament prophecy that mentions the Messiah being called a Nazarene is not found in the Old Testament itself. This has led to some debate and discussion among scholars and theologians.
The first observation is that the word "prophets" is in the plural form in Matthew 2:23, and it's the fact that he resided in Nazareth that would lead to him being identified as a Nazarene.
In this context, the words "prophet" and "Nazareth" will reappear in the presentation of Jesus at the Temple in Luke 2, where the prophetess Anna and the righteous Simeon come into the picture. Therefore, Matthew 2:23 is referring to the statements made by these two individuals concerning Jesus and the fact that he went to reside in Nazareth.
It is referring to the town of Nazareth and how Jesus' residence there fulfilled a prophecy about him being called a Nazarene. This verse connects the location of Nazareth with the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah. However, it's worth noting that the specific Old Testament prophecy that mentions the Messiah being called a Nazarene is not found in the Old Testament itself. This has led to some debate and discussion among scholars and theologians.
The first observation is that the word "prophets" is in the plural form in Matthew 2:23, and it's the fact that he resided in Nazareth that would lead to him being identified as a Nazarene.
In this context, the words "prophet" and "Nazareth" will reappear in the presentation of Jesus at the Temple in Luke 2, where the prophetess Anna and the righteous Simeon come into the picture. Therefore, Matthew 2:23 is referring to the statements made by these two individuals concerning Jesus and the fact that he went to reside in Nazareth.
Audie
Veteran Member
And when did he die
Audie
Veteran Member
Not really.
For me, it matters that it's
another reason to not accept the
validity of any "god" claims
**1. Matthew 28:1-10 (Hebrew Gospel of Matthew - Shem Tov):**
- Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb.
- An angel descends from heaven, rolls away the stone, and declares that Jesus has risen.
- Mary Magdalene is instructed to inform the disciples about the resurrection.
- She encounters Jesus on her way to the disciples and worships him.
**2. John 20:1-2 (John greek na28):**
- Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb.
- She sees the stone rolled away and runs to inform Peter and the beloved disciple.
- She says that the Lord has been taken from the tomb, and they do not know where He has been placed.
The differences between the accounts can be explained by the perspectives of the authors and the specific details they chose to emphasize. Both texts agree on the main fact: Jesus's tomb was empty. In both accounts, Mary Magdalene witnessed that Jesus's body was no longer in the tomb.
The apparent discrepancy can be understood as follows: in Matthew, the focus is on the angel's message and the subsequent appearance of Jesus to Mary Magdalene. In John, the emphasis is more on the initial discovery of the empty tomb and Mary Magdalene's concern about the whereabouts of Jesus. There is no fundamental contradiction regarding the fate of Jesus's body; both Gospels confirm that the tomb was empty, which is central to the resurrection narrative.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Supposedly 33 ce.
Audie
Veteran Member
Nobody must have paid much attention.
Dunno when or where he was born or died.
Lots of details some way came to light
later, verbatim dialogs, wise- man gifts.
Why don't I believe any of it?
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
I figure the generalities are nice enough, but when we try to pin down specifics, it gets messy.
Audie
Veteran Member
I shouldn't say "any of it".
Someone named something
( not " jesus") did and said
some things things that attracted some
some attention. Accounts of what those
we're may be 100% apocryohal, who knows
Recounted decades later, and / or by someone
claiming to have seen him after his death...
Not likely.
The magic realism parts, no way.
And without those, the story is pointless.
Even though someone was executed,
and that's too bad.
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amazing grace
Active Member
Every individual has a different vocabulary, different personalities and as such will relate incidences differently. You and I could relate the same story and you may relate each and every minutiae whereas I may not be so vocal and relate just the basics - doesn't make them contradictory at all - one just contains more detail than the other.
Orbit
I'm a planet
If you search YouTube for “nonstampcollector bible contradictions” there is a great video on the subject.When I was a teenager, Christian apologetics was my thing. I would like to create a thread about contradictions in the Bible. Believers of it often claim it is without contradiction, something I used to tout.
Let’s compile the contradictions, and let’s try to explain them if possible.
I’ll start.
The account of how King Saul died. 1 Samuel 31 says that Saul killed himself, yet immediately after, in 2 Samuel 1 , an amalekite says that he killed Saul.
So context is important, right? On first glance, there are contradictions in the accounts. I read a scholarly commentary book on the books of Samuel, so I’ll relay what i learned from it. The scholar said that amalekites were thematically supposed to represent deceit. The original audience of the text would have understood that the amalekite was lying for personal gain, he did not really kill Saul.
Also, 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel is from the same author. Would it be likely that an author would contradict himself right away?
So that is one contradiction shoddily explained away.Let’s bring out all the contradictions!
They're meaningful to me in helping me dismiss the Bible as a reliable source of information much less the words of a channeled deity, as are the historical and scientific errors, and the intellectual and moral failures attributed to the deity.
But they're useless in discussions with believers, whose agenda, values and methods differ from the critical thinker's assessment of scripture. Such a person has already decided that there are no contradictions (and that his god is good) before looking at a Bible, and cannot see what his faith-based confirmation bias won't show him.
In case you're interested, I made up a quiz based in this topic that believers bristle at. Spoiler: every one of these has two or more conflicting answers (hidden below).
Bible quiz
An answer is not correct unless it is complete, meaning that if the bible gives more than one answer, so should you. What does the bible say about each of these:
[1] Is mankind saved by works or faith?
[2] What were Jesus' very last words on the cross?
[3] Is it possible for men to be righteous?
[4] Has man seen God?
[5] Are all words from God true?
[6] Does God grow weary or tired?
[7] How did Jesus answer the Sanhedrin when it asked if he was messiah?
[8] What was the precise wording on the cross (English translation acceptable)?
[9] Was Jesus taken by Satan to the temple or mountain first?
[10] What number of blind men received their sight on the road from Jericho?
[11] Is God content with his works?
[12] Is God perfect, or does he make mistakes that he regrets?
[1] Is mankind saved by works or faith?
Both.
In one part, the bible says that man is saved by faith, not works ("For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works." - Ephesians 2:8-9) and in another, the exact opposite ("Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24)
[2] What were Jesus' very last words on the cross?
There are contradictory answers.
Although all four gospels tell us what Jesus said on the cross as he was dying, only two actually say that the words they report were his final words, that is, that he died after speaking them without speaking again. John (19:30) says that Jesus' final utterance was, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." Luke (23:46) says it was, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last."
[3] Is it possible for men to be righteous?
Yes and no
According to Genesis 7:1, Job 2:3, and James 5:16, man can be righteous, whereas according to Romans 3:10, man cannot be righteous
[4] Has man seen God?
Yes and no.
Men have seen God: "So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." - Genesis 32:30). The bible also tells us that no man has seen God: "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." - John 1:18
[5] Are all words from God true?
Yes and no.
According to Proverbs 30:5, every word of god is true, while we are told that God deceives prophets (1 Kings 22:23) and the wicked (2 Thess. 2:11-12).
[6] Does God grow weary or tired?
Yes and no.
The bible tells us that God gets tired and rests ("on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested" - Exodus 31:17), and also that God is never tired and never rests ("The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary" - Isaiah 40:28).
[7] How did Jesus answer the Sanhedrin when it asked if he was messiah?
That also depends.
According to Mark (14:62), when asked if he was the messiah, Jesus to the Sanhedrin "I am." According to Matthew (26:64), it was, "You have said so." And according to Luke (22:67), it was "If I tell you, you will not believe." So take your pick.
[8] What was the precise wording on the cross (English translation acceptable)?
According to Matthew (27:37), it was This is Jesus the King of the Jews. According to Mark (15:26), it said The King of the Jews. Luke (23:38) tells us it was This is the King of the Jews and according to John (19:19), it said, Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews
[9] Was Jesus taken by Satan to the temple or mountain first?
Both
Matthew (4:5-8) tells us that Satan took Jesus to the temple then the mountain, whereas it's the other way around in (Luke 4:5-9)
[10] What number of blind men received their sight on the road from Jericho?
That depends
Two blind men were healed on the road according to Matthew (20:29-34), but it was just one according to Mark (10:46-47)
[11] Is God content with his works?
Yes and no
Genesis 1:31 tells us that, "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." Genesis 6:6 reports that, "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
[12] Is God perfect, or does he make mistakes that he regrets?
Both.
Once again we look to Genesis 6:6, and contrast that with Psalm 18:30: "As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him."
Both.
In one part, the bible says that man is saved by faith, not works ("For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works." - Ephesians 2:8-9) and in another, the exact opposite ("Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24)
[2] What were Jesus' very last words on the cross?
There are contradictory answers.
Although all four gospels tell us what Jesus said on the cross as he was dying, only two actually say that the words they report were his final words, that is, that he died after speaking them without speaking again. John (19:30) says that Jesus' final utterance was, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." Luke (23:46) says it was, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last."
[3] Is it possible for men to be righteous?
Yes and no
According to Genesis 7:1, Job 2:3, and James 5:16, man can be righteous, whereas according to Romans 3:10, man cannot be righteous
[4] Has man seen God?
Yes and no.
Men have seen God: "So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." - Genesis 32:30). The bible also tells us that no man has seen God: "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." - John 1:18
[5] Are all words from God true?
Yes and no.
According to Proverbs 30:5, every word of god is true, while we are told that God deceives prophets (1 Kings 22:23) and the wicked (2 Thess. 2:11-12).
[6] Does God grow weary or tired?
Yes and no.
The bible tells us that God gets tired and rests ("on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested" - Exodus 31:17), and also that God is never tired and never rests ("The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary" - Isaiah 40:28).
[7] How did Jesus answer the Sanhedrin when it asked if he was messiah?
That also depends.
According to Mark (14:62), when asked if he was the messiah, Jesus to the Sanhedrin "I am." According to Matthew (26:64), it was, "You have said so." And according to Luke (22:67), it was "If I tell you, you will not believe." So take your pick.
[8] What was the precise wording on the cross (English translation acceptable)?
According to Matthew (27:37), it was This is Jesus the King of the Jews. According to Mark (15:26), it said The King of the Jews. Luke (23:38) tells us it was This is the King of the Jews and according to John (19:19), it said, Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews
[9] Was Jesus taken by Satan to the temple or mountain first?
Both
Matthew (4:5-8) tells us that Satan took Jesus to the temple then the mountain, whereas it's the other way around in (Luke 4:5-9)
[10] What number of blind men received their sight on the road from Jericho?
That depends
Two blind men were healed on the road according to Matthew (20:29-34), but it was just one according to Mark (10:46-47)
[11] Is God content with his works?
Yes and no
Genesis 1:31 tells us that, "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." Genesis 6:6 reports that, "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
[12] Is God perfect, or does he make mistakes that he regrets?
Both.
Once again we look to Genesis 6:6, and contrast that with Psalm 18:30: "As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him."
Yes, for reasons already given.
Also, I'm not interested in the Bible's advice on how I should live or think or be.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Well there are two different dates for his birth, depending upon which Gospel one follows. One is sometime in or before 4 BCE and the other is in the year 6CE.