Bible Prophecy as Evidence of a bible writers trustworthiness

[Audie]

The flood came, and receded, quite quickly, if you read the text. There is also a well documented list of survivors, along with the progeny who re-established settlements around the Middle East and beyond. Even the sons of Noah (Shem, Ham and Japheth) give their names to regions upon earth. Read Genesis 10 and you'll probably recognise some of the names as geographical locations. All are listed in their generations, providing a continuous record over time.

The more specific the claims, the bigger the
fish story because there was no flood, as can be so readily proved.

 

[nPeace]

The parting of the seas, Moses' cane turning into a snake, Elijah going off in a fiery chariot, then the NT with Jesus walking on water, dead people coming out of their graves and Jesus himself coming out of the tomb, but he could appear and disappear and float off into the clouds? It's hard to believe these things actually happened. Therefore, it is easier to write the Bible off as myth and legends, then to accept it as being the inerrant, infallible and historically accurate word of God. It might be, but I have my doubts.

Yes. It is easier.
It's also easier to do the wrong thing, because we want to. Not because it's the right thing.
Just take the highway patrol off the streets, and see.
So that tells us something important.

Then, as you might know, I argue a lot with Baha'is about their claims. Baha'is make whatever contradicts their beliefs "metaphorical." I don't agree with that either. To me, the worst claim is that they say Jesus didn't rise from the dead. That those stories were metaphorical. That Jesus died and stayed dead, that only his spirit rose.

I agree that bad religion has not done much credit to the truth, but that's why it's important to thoroughly investigate truth, and reach a clear conclusion - Not be undecided and uncertain.
Are you either?

But, for Christians, I do believe that if a person calls themselves a Christian then they should take the Bible as literal as they can. But there has to be a limit to where even a Christians stops short. Like in Mark where it says that his followers will handle snakes and be able to drink deadly poison? So, some verses, I'd hope, even the most literal-believing Christian would see as being metaphorical. So, how can there ever be proof of those miraculous things? Of course, if Jesus returns. That would settle it.

Of course, everthing will be settled... eventually, but I am reminded of people that got washed away in floods, or buried in mud or hot lava. Simply because they ignored the truth being told.
In other words, it was settled for them, but in death.
That doesn't seem to be a pleasant way to see something settled.

I'm not sure how much you know about investigations, but detectives do not focus on one piece of evidence, as though that must be the key to solving the case.
I think people who zero in on miracles, and ignore all the other factors, are missing out, and I don't think they have an excuse, by doing so. Nor can they blame anyone.

The true followers of Christ have much to offer as evidence for truth.

 

[Audie]

As long as you don't try and force your own beliefs onto others.

To the rack with you

 

[ppp]

The flood came, and receded, quite quickly, if you read the text.

Perhaps you misunderstood. There is insufficient water for a world wide flood. No matter how quick you claim it would have been. In exactly the same way as there is not enough enough urine in my bladder to flood the grand canyon and northern Arizona.

 

[Audie]

Yes. It is easier.
It's also easier to do the wrong thing, because we want to. Not because it's the right thing.
Just take the highway patrol off the streets, and see.
So that tells us something important.


I agree that bad religion has not done much credit to the truth, but that's why it's important to thoroughly investigate truth, and reach a clear conclusion - Not be undecided and uncertain.
Are you either?


Of course, everthing will be settled... eventually, but I am reminded of people that got washed away in floods, or buried in mud or hot lava. Simply because they ignored the truth being told.
In other words, it was settled for them, but in death.
That doesn't seem to be a pleasant way to see something settled.

I'm not sure how much you know about investigations, but detectives do not focus on one piece of evidence, as though that must be the key to solving the case.
I think people who zero in on miracles, and ignore all the other factors, are missing out, and I don't think they have an excuse, by doing so. Nor can they blame anyone.

The true followers of Christ have much to offer as evidence for truth.

One piece of evidence can prove guilt or
innocence.
One fact contrary to a law or theory can disprove the law or theory.
But one fact as big as the earth
cant disprove one word of the bible.
Right?

 

[nPeace]

I think it would be important to have more Jewish input on any discussion about fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Did any Jew post a response to this thread?

Why do you think it would be important to have more Jewish input on any discussion about fulfillment of Bible prophecy? Do you trust them more?

 

[Sheldon]

I don't see how this refutes what I said. Sorry.

It has not been demonstrated that humans alone cannot predict the future.

In point of fact humans do this quite accurately against massive odds almost every day of the week across the globe, when they predict the correct lottery numbers. Evidence enough one would think that anyone can make a wild prediction, and later be proved right through pure serendipity.

It hasn't been demonstrated that if humans can be shown to predict the future, that it must come from some God(s).

Exactly the point I have made, and my request for a rational explanation of why theists think prophesy is evidence for any deity has remained unanswered.

And it definitely has not been demonstrated that any God exists (or which God), never mind that said God inspired humans to predict the future, or whatever.

Again I concur completely. All I have seen are bare claims for prophesy repeated endlessly, usually with bible quotes. No objective evidence has been offered to support them, and of course even were this not the case, when you ask how a human, hypothetically making a very accurate prediction of an extremely unlikely event, is evidence for s deity, all you get is hand waving and a repetition of the claim.

 

[Redemptionsong]

that is just a list of chapter and verse numbers.

I wrote this list out, and did not just copy and paste from a website! It shows that Jesus fulfils the 'suffering servant' prophecies in the greatest of detail. It means that either the writers of the NT tried to fit Jesus' life to the prophecies, or the prophecies were fulfilled in the life of Jesus. If you believe the former of these two possibilities, then you have to show that the writers were able to ensure the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem, and ensure his death by crucifixion on the eve of Passover. They would also have to steal his body from a tomb and then dispose of it somewhere undetected. They would then have to whip up some great belief in the disciples to make them think they were being baptised in the Holy Spirit, promised by Jesus before he died.

If you can pull off this little deception, in front of thousands of witnesses, then it's just the beginning of a movement to deceive the rest of the world.

Anyone who gives this a little thought, will realise that creating a deception is actually very difficult, especilly amongst a people, the Jews, who were suspicious of false Messiahs.

What establishes Christianity in Asia is not just words but POWER. The Acts of the Apostles shows that belief spread quickly in Asia Minor because the word was preached and signs and wonders followed. The same is true of revival today.

 

[Sheldon]

The point - If a source makes a exact prophetic utterance, and that prophecy comes true exactly. then since we know that it is impossible for a human, then that is evidence the source of the prediction is of divine nature - a deity.
That is the point.

I don't believe it would be, as having an event you cannot explain is not evidence something supernatural has occurred. Humans have made this basic error in logic throughout human history and assigned supernatural causation to events they cannot explain.

So what rational explanation have you to justify this claim?

 

[Sheldon]

Do you know who will be born on earth 10 years... even 1 year from now? Can you name that person, and say what they will do?

Yes absolutely. I predict that within a hundred years a boy will be born, and his name will be Richard, and he will born in the county of Sussex in England.

Done deal, no deity required.

 

[Sheldon]

The Bible gave precice predictions - prohecies about the future.

You mean the bible claims this happened, is it possible you really don't see the difference?

 

[nPeace]

One piece of evidence can prove guilt or
innocence.

Yes. Since it may be a vital piece - key.

One fact contrary to a law or theory can disprove the law or theory.
But one fact as big as the earth
cant disprove one word of the bible.
Right?

Huh? One fact as big as the earth?
Oh wait. This is related to the flood right?
You are trying so hard, I'll give you that. How many threads would you like to be a debate on the flood, on RF?

How about we talk about the wolf to whale story instead.

 

[nPeace]

Yes absolutely. I predict that within a hundred years a boy will be born, and his name will Richard, and he will born in the county of Sussex in England.

Done deal, no deity required.

Did you forget to say what he will do, and when? Incomplete.

 

[Sheldon]

Do you know who will be born on earth 10 years... even 1 year from now? Can you name that person, and say what they will do?
No.? Then your argument is weak, and crumby... like bread that has gone bad for a month.

The Bible gave precice predictions - prohecies about the future.
A one time event that happens annually, monthly, or every x years, is not a prophecy.

Prophecies are not obvious things like "The weather tomorrow will be fair."

"Oops. Didn't see that coming."
"The sun will "rise" tomorrow."
That's like me saying, 'I predict my watch will be 1 hour later, 1 hour from now.' Then going, 'Whoopie! I was right!'

Whilst I don't believe biblical claims of fulfilled prophesy, since no one demonstrates any objective to support them. I still have yet to see any rational explanation, of why a human making a spectacularly unlikely prediction that comes exactly true remotely evidences any deity? This just seems like an unevidenced assumptions theists and religious apologists make to me.

 

[Sheldon]

The Bible is very clear about sin, and the impact that sin has on a human life.

The Lord of The Rings is pretty clear about destroying the one ring, I don't lose much sleep about it if I'm honest. Since like the unevidenced notion of sin, I don't believe it is real.

 

[nPeace]

I don't believe it would be, as having an event you cannot explain is not evidence something supernatural has occurred. Humans have made this basic error in logic throughout human history and assigned supernatural causation to events they cannot explain.

So what rational explanation have you to justify this claim?

It's not a matter of can't explain. Where do you guys get that from?
It has been explained.
You dismiss it, remember.
So, the mechanic explains why your radiator hose is leaking. You dismiss it as nonsense, and them claim he made it up because he can't explain it.
Do you realize how desperate that appears?

 

[Audie]

Yes. Since it may be a vital piece - key.


Huh? One fact as big as the earth?
Oh wait. This is related to the flood right?
You are trying so hard, I'll give you that. How many threads would you like to be a debate on the flood, on RF?

How about we talk about the wolf to whale story instead.

As long as you guys keep running away, i will
keep mentioning it.
What are you so afraid of? The truth?
they say it will set you free. Is that the
phobia?

 

[nPeace]

You mean the bible claims this happened, is it possible you really don't see the difference?

Not me.

 

[nPeace]

As long as you guys keep running away, i will
keep mentioning it.
What are you so afraid of? The truth?
they say it will set you free. Is that the
phobia?

Funny. The last timeS we discussed this, you were the one that disappeared... with something like how important you were to talk to people like me.

 

[nPeace]

Whilst I don't believe biblical claims of fulfilled prophesy, since no one demonstrates any objective to support them. I still have yet to see any rational explanation, of why a human making a spectacularly unlikely prediction that comes exactly true remotely evidences any deity? This just seems like an unevidenced assumptions theists and religious apologists make to me.

Have you ever considerd it's because of you and your worldview?