Biden Puts the Heat on Settler Violence in the West Bank

[Wandering Monk]

Is he also about to suggest a multinational force there? First steps toward Two States?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Too little, too late. Those settlements shouldn't exist in the first place as they violate international law (occupying forces aren't allowed to build settlements on occupied land since it's not legally theirs), so this is a Band-Aid on a festering wound.

Biden is really just trying to play both sides, because the progressive base and the young voters are increasingly angry at him over his unqualified support for Israel's massacre of Gazans. A dissent cable criticizing our policy towards Israel was recently released signed by dozens of disgruntled State Department officials, and there's already been at least one resignation over it. So he's facing a lot of pressure now, which has to have blindsided him since this amount of awareness and sympathy for the Palestinians has never existed in the US before. That's why he's modifying his stance a bit.

America doesn't really support a two state solution because we stand in the way of efforts reining in the Zionist state's expansionism and ethnic cleaning. We are hindering any sort of peace by arming and morally supporting the policies of the Israeli government, while mumbling out of the side of our mouths about peace.

 

[PureX]

When the nazis invaded Poland, and began rounding up the Jews for extermination, it was the Poles themselves that told the nazis who the Jews were, and where they were living, because after the nazis took them away, the Poles that turned them in would steal their homes, and their land, and their belongings.

Now we've come full circle, and it's the Jews that are stealing the homes and the land and the belongings of the Palestinians living around them, as they're being targeted for extermination (as terrorists).

 

[Debater Slayer]

Too little, too late. Those settlements shouldn't exist in the first place as they violate international law (occupying forces aren't allowed to build settlements on occupied land since it's not legally theirs), so this is a Band-Aid on a festering wound.

Biden is really just trying to play both sides, because the progressive base and the young voters are increasingly angry at him over his unqualified support for Israel's massacre of Gazans. A dissent cable criticizing our policy towards Israel was recently released signed by dozens of disgruntled State Department officials, and there's already been at least one resignation over it. So he's facing a lot of pressure now, which has to have blindsided him since this amount of awareness and sympathy for the Palestinians has never existed in the US before. That's why he's modifying his stance a bit.

America doesn't really support a two state solution because we stand in the way of efforts reining in the Zionist state's expansionism and ethnic cleaning. We are hindering any sort of peace by arming and morally supporting the policies of the Israeli government, while mumbling out of the side of our mouths about peace.

Biden's remarkably inhumane and irresponsible handling of the war didn't surprise me, considering that he's an establishment Democrat mostly offering more of the same politics the party has advocated for years. What has surprised me is Bernie Sanders' vote against a ceasefire, after all of these years of positioning himself as a defender of the marginalized and voiceless.

Perhaps Sanders would be more likely to support a ceasefire if someone told him that Fidel Castro was still alive and residing in Gaza.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Biden's remarkably inhumane and irresponsible handling of the war didn't surprise me, considering that he's an establishment Democrat mostly offering more of the same politics the party has advocated for years. What has surprised me is Bernie Sanders' vote against a ceasefire, after all of these years of positioning himself as a defender of the marginalized and voiceless.

Perhaps Sanders would be more likely to support a ceasefire if someone told him that Fidel Castro was still alive and residing in Gaza.

What should Biden have done? Cut off aid to Israel? They don't need it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What should Biden have done? Threaten to cut off aid to Israel? They don't need it.

He should have been (and should be) a fairer, more objective, and more reasonable mediator between Israel and Palestinians in order to pursue peace. Among other things, he repeated an unverified claim that the White House later walked back, baselessly questioned the Palestinian death toll and offered no justification for doing so, and hasn't given remotely sufficient consideration to the suffering and deaths of Palestinians—all the while offering Israel almost unchecked support.

The US could exert more pressure and exercise its influence to attempt to foster peace if it wanted to, but the Biden administration hasn't done that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When the nazis invaded Poland, and began rounding up the Jews for extermination, it was the Poles themselves that told the nazis who the Jews were, and where they were living, because after the nazis took them away, the Poles that turned them in would steal their homes, and their land, and their belongings.

Now we've come full circle, and it's the Jews that are stealing the homes and the land and the belongings of the Palestinians living around them, as they're being targeted for extermination (as terrorists).

So the Jews are Nazis now?

 

[PureX]

So the Jews are Nazis now?

The Jews in Gaza are people willing to see their neighbors annihilated so they can steal their stuff.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The US can exert more pressure and exercise its influence to attempt to foster peace if it wanted to, but the Biden administration hasn't done that.

Great abstraction. Give me examples of how the US would do this.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The Jews in Gaza are people willing to see their neighbors annihilated so they can steal their stuff.

This particular discussion is about pressuring illegal settlers in the West Bank, not Gaza. I was unaware that Jews lived in Gaza.

 

[PureX]

This particular discussion is about pressuring illegal settlers in the West Bank, not Gaza. I was unaware that Jews lived in Gaza.

Sorry for the geographical faux pas.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Great abstraction. Give me examples of how the US would do this.

A few starting points:

- Conditioning its military support for Israel on the pursuit of a two-state solution (including dismantlement of the illegal settlements in the West Bank) and cessation of applying martial law in the West Bank.

- Using its economic ties with Israel—including the military aid—as a pressuring tool to the same end.

- Using its military and economic influence in the Middle East as a way of promoting a two-state solution in exchange for normalization of relations with Israel from more Arab states.

We could look at how much pressure the US has put on Russia without any direct military confrontation, and it has also pushed (or tried to push) other countries to follow suit. If the US government wanted to pursue peace between Israel and Palestinians, it would act very differently from how it is acting now.

 

[exchemist]

Is he also about to suggest a multinational force there? First steps toward Two States?

As @Saint Frankenstein says, What about putting pressure on settlers? Period.

That is long overdue and is key to any long-term resolution of this tragic conflict.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Is he also about to suggest a multinational force there?

I'm sure that a multinational force will be a UN force, packed with representatives of the most inhumane and hypocritical countries in the world. They will work in Gaza and do their time off in Israel, which is a great place for tourists.
Stability is what is needed. What I would do for Gaza is install a king with a parliament, not a democracy. They are just not interested in democracy at this time.

 

[Brickjectivity]

We could look at how much pressure the US has put on Russia without any direct military confrontation, and it has also pushed (or tried to push) other countries to follow suit. If the US government wanted to pursue peace between Israel and Palestinians, it would act very differently from how it is acting now.

We used sanctions against Russia. They did not work. Instead, Russia continued.

 

[Debater Slayer]

We used sanctions against Russia. They did not work. Instead, Russia continued.

Putin is a dictator who is pushing to save face regardless of the costs to his country and people, and Russia is significantly larger than Israel. If Israel's democracy is anywhere near as robust as it has advertised, economic pressure should work much more effectively against it than against Russia.

Besides, Russia's economy has taken a major hit due to the sanctions, and I have little doubt that its war machine would be stronger if not for those.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Putin is a dictator who is pushing to save face regardless of the costs to his country and people, and Russia is significantly larger than Israel. If Israel's democracy is anywhere near as robust as it has advertised, economic pressure should work much more effectively against it than against Russia.

Besides, Russia's economy has taken a major hit due to the sanctions, and I have little doubt that its war machine would be stronger if not for those.

It is true we could squeeze Israel. I do not think its going to be necessary. I think that this war is mostly over. Some better form of government more suitable to Gaza should be the goal. I think that someone should take over for a while as a direct leader. Are you familiar with how General McArthur helped to rebuild Japan and installed a new government there and how Atatürk reformed the Turkish government? Somebody like them: somebody with true moral scruples and an absolute refusal to accept any bribes. That is what Gaza needs as a leader for at least the next ten years. Its needs someone it can trust. It needs stability.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Biden's remarkably inhumane and irresponsible handling of the war didn't surprise me, considering that he's an establishment Democrat mostly offering more of the same politics the party has advocated for years. What has surprised me is Bernie Sanders' vote against a ceasefire, after all of these years of positioning himself as a defender of the marginalized and voiceless.

Perhaps Sanders would be more likely to support a ceasefire if someone told him that Fidel Castro was still alive and residing in Gaza.

Was there not a cease fire on October 6th?

 

[Wandering Monk]

Do you see parallels between Northern Ireland and Israel/Gaza/West Bank?

The troubles in Northern Ireland seem to have dissipated in conjunction with economic prosperity in the 1990s. The era of the Celtic Tiger.

Could economic development help in Gaza, which has no commerce or industry of their own.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Was there not a cease fire on October 6th?

There was, and in my opinion, the living conditions in Gaza helped to enable Hamas' radicalism to gain foothold. I don't think the use of military force alone will ultimately address the root of the problem, especially not when the vast majority of those killed (whether Palestinians or Israelis) have been civilians.

Unfortunately, I don't believe there's any easy path going forward, and I'm under no illusion that positive change will occur overnight. I would expect it to be a gradual, difficult, and long process.