Biden's Eviction Moratorium Order May Not Be Enough

[icehorse]

This doesn't quantify things.

I'm not sure what you're asking?

 

[Colt]

The only problem is that most taxes are offset and passed down to others.

The wealthy pay, but they don't since the expense is continually passed down.

The adage of using other people's money.

Baseless assertion, political soundbite disinformation.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not sure what you're asking?

There's much talk about taxes...who pays or doesn't pay.
If things aren't quantified, I find it difficult to grok the situation.

 

[icehorse]

There's much talk about taxes...who pays or doesn't pay.
If things aren't quantified, I find it difficult to grok the situation.

Well the actual formulas and tables would be extremely complex to work out, but I would say that on income (and wealth accumulation), over say $5mil / year, the tax rate ought to be very high - 60%?, 70%?, 90%?

I think you'd be hard pressed to describe someone making that much money who isn't - directly or indirectly - making HEAVY use of the infrastructure society has created.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well the actual formulas and tables would be extremely complex to work out, but I would say that on income (and wealth accumulation), over say $5mil / year, the tax rate ought to be very high - 60%?, 70%?, 90%?

I think you'd be hard pressed to describe someone making that much money who isn't - directly or indirectly - making HEAVY use of the infrastructure society has created.

I'd expect that their ratio of earnings to infrastructure use
would decrease with earnings, eg, a spendierr car doesn't
take up more room on the road.

 

[icehorse]

I'd expect that their ratio of earnings to infrastructure use
would decrease with earnings, eg, a spendierr car doesn't
take up more room on the road.

But their companies make heavy use of the infrastructure

 

[Revoltingest]

But their companies make heavy use of the infrastructure

And pay heavy taxes.
What's really the issue?
No one denies that the wealthy & business use infrastructure.
Yet so many people continually say that they use it.
Why state the obvious & undeniable....to argue they don't pay taxes for it?

 

[icehorse]

And pay heavy taxes.
What's really the issue?
No one denies that the wealthy & business use infrastructure.
Yet so many people continually say that they use it.
Why state the obvious & undeniable....to argue they don't pay taxes for it?

As you know, some do, some do not. Here's a link to an article that lists 91 large corporations that paid 0% federal taxes in 2018. A few well known ones:

CenturyLink, DowDuPont, Avis, JetBlue, Levi Strauss, Whirlpool, US Steel, Goodyear, FedEx, Chevron, Delta Airlines, Honeywell, Netflix, GM, Halliburton, Molson Coors, Starbucks, Amazon, Owens Corning, Salesforce...

These 91 companies paid no federal taxes in 2018

Just to move the conversation along - I'm not claiming that these leeches did anything illegal, only that our tax code needs some serious revising.

 

[Revoltingest]

As you know, some do, some do not. Here's a link to an article that lists 91 large corporations that paid 0% federal taxes in 2018. A few well known ones:

CenturyLink, DowDuPont, Avis, JetBlue, Levi Strauss, Whirlpool, US Steel, Goodyear, FedEx, Chevron, Delta Airlines, Honeywell, Netflix, GM, Halliburton, Molson Coors, Starbucks, Amazon, Owens Corning, Salesforce...

These 91 companies paid no federal taxes in 2018

Just to move the conversation along - I'm not claiming that these leeches did anything illegal, only that our tax code needs some serious revising.

Companies don't always make a profit, so I'd expect that
in any given year, some would not. A more accurate
picture would be painted by examining taxation of all
companies.
But even those not paying income tax, would still be
paying property taxes, which support infrastructure,
& also services those companies don't directly use,
eg, grade school education.
No matter what my income....lean years or profitable
years, I always pay hefty property taxes. And back
in the day (when I had employees), payroll taxes.

 

[icehorse]

Companies don't always make a profit, so I'd expect that
in any given year, some would not. A more accurate
picture would be painted by examining taxation of all
companies.
But even those not paying income tax, would still be
paying property taxes, which support infrastructure,
& also services those companies don't directly use,
eg, grade school education.
No matter what my income....lean years or profitable
years, I always pay hefty property taxes. And back
in the day (when I had employees), payroll taxes.

@Revoltingest, again, you and I pay our taxes. But how about Amazon? Are you proposing that they didn't make any profit in 2018? Was that perhaps the year in which Bezos didn't grow his vast fortune? Come on man.

So I'm sure that *some* of those companies didn't make any profit, especially given how many legal writeoffs they can take. But many did make profits and STILL found writeoffs. And, btw, if you're a big company, you ARE using the infrastructure, and something like a usage tax should be considered a cost of doing business. If you have a business that can succeed only if you don't have to pay for your usage of the infrastructure, then your business is a parasite on the economy.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Revoltingest, again, you and I pay our taxes. But how about Amazon? Are you proposing that they didn't make any profit in 2018? Was that perhaps the year in which Bezos didn't grow his vast fortune? Come on man.

I've made no claims about Amazon's income tax payments or
profit. But since you are, to support them would be useful.

So I'm sure that *some* of those companies didn't make any profit, especially given how many legal writeoffs they can take. But many did make profits and STILL found writeoffs. And, btw, if you're a big company, you ARE using the infrastructure, and something like a usage tax should be considered a cost of doing business. If you have a business that can succeed only if you don't have to pay for your usage of the infrastructure, then your business is a parasite on the economy.

You're criticizing them without providing any financial analysis.

Reminds me of....

 

[icehorse]

I've made no claims about Amazon's income tax payments or
profit. But since you are, to support them would be useful.

I already sent you the link

You're criticizing them without providing any financial analysis.

I made a claim about parasitic corporations, care to respond to that?

 

[Revoltingest]

I already sent you the link

I'll go back & look again.

If you mean this one...
These 91 companies paid no federal taxes in 2018
I wasn't able to read all of it because my ad blocker.
But I saw no analysis of any individual companies P&L & tax records.

I made a claim about parasitic corporations, care to respond to that?

I'm sure come companies are parasites.
After all, they're run by humans, & a percentage
of those animals are immoral. But one cannot
automatically presume this about a specific company
just because income tax in a year was low or zero.

 

[icehorse]

I'll go back & look again.

If you mean this one...
These 91 companies paid no federal taxes in 2018
I wasn't able to read all of it because my ad blocker.
But I saw no analysis of any individual companies P&L & tax records.

I'm sure come companies are parasites.
After all, they're run by humans, & a percentage
of those animals are immoral. But one cannot
automatically presume this about a specific company
just because income tax in a year was low or zero.

It seems to me you're not really reading my posts

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems to me you're not really reading my posts

I am....carefully.
But you're not responding to mine as I'd hoped, ie,
with specific info & analysis rather than broad claims.

 

[Kooky]

I feel like evicting people in the middle of a pandemic, with a global economic depression on top of it, is just needlessly cruel.

Who else is going to live in all these apartments during a major economic crisis?

 

[Revoltingest]

Who else is going to live in all these apartments during a major economic crisis?

Someone able to pay.
Not every landlord can carry non-paying tenants.

Local governments don't cut landlords slack if they
can't afford property taxes. Same for utility companies.
Banks will work with landlords though....except for
some, eg, Citizens NA, which is owned by RBC, which
is owned by the British government. Domestic lenders
are better.

 

[Kooky]

Someone able to pay.
Not every landlord can carry non-paying tenants.

Local governments don't cut landlords slack if they
can't afford property taxes. Same for utility companies.
Banks will work with landlords though....except for
some, eg, Citizens NA, which is owned by RBC, which
is owned by the British government. Domestic lenders
are better.

Is that "someone" hypothetical or are there actual real people lining up to rent new apartments during a global pandemic?

How would a landlord pay property taxes if there was nobody around to afford their apartments?

 

[Revoltingest]

Is that "someone" hypothetical or are there actual real people lining up to rent new apartments during a global pandemic?

There are tenants seeking apartments even during
the plague. And landlords compete to get the paying
ones. Note that rents in NYC are actually falling for
the first time in a long time.
Many people now work from home, so the unemployment
rate isn't as bad as it would've been in pre-internet days.

 

[Kooky]

There are tenants seeking apartments even during
the plague. And landlords compete to get the paying
ones. Note that rents in NYC are actually falling for
the first time in a long time.
Many people now work from home, so the unemployment
rate isn't as bad as it would've been in pre-internet days.

Which implies that there are fewer people seeking new apartments than there are empty apartments on offer.

Empty apartments don't bring in money, anyway, so why keep them empty?