Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Hold on a there buster...the universe exists yes, you and I both are not imagining it.....but you believe it once didn't exist yes? And I am asking you to prove to me how what we both know is real was once not real."an eternal infinite universe doesn't need scientific proof"
What, yes it does unless we just want to imagine and go with nothing but beliefs.
Iow, I am not questioning the status qou, ie. this real universe has always been a real universe, you otoh are saying that real universe is not always a real universe....so the onus is on you to explain how real came from unreal?
Agreed, so please explain explicitly what you believe filled the space that is now filled by this real universe before the believed BB took place?"it was, is, and will always be....to prove this isn't true, you would need to prove that nothing preceded something...
There is no such thing as No-Thing as the Vacuum energy shows.
I am implying that the life force of the universe is omnipresent, it is the universal life force that manifests all form."What's more, an eternal infinite living universe doesn't require proof, it was, is, and will always be alive...to prove this isn't true, you need to prove that that the source of life is non-life..."
Your just making statements here. Are you saying rocks are living?
You seem to not understand what is being said to you.....I am not interested in pretend simulated conceptualizations, be they mathematical, visual, aural, verbal, symbolic, etc., I want proof as in making non living matter alive. Understood?"By proof I don't mean mental conceptualizations....I mean the actual creation of some non-living thing from nothing, and the second display of creation needed to convince me is the creation of life from the non-life.."
I don't think your watching the videos I am posting, showing how organic matter can become life as we know it.
Maybe so, but your limited belief as to what defines life is not one I would limit myself to....it's a bit like anthropomorphism, but extended to some of the lower kingdoms of nature...."Now since I understand that the universe is alive, the theory of evolution is not life arising from non-life, it is just a growing complexity of life from experience.. it is how the whole cosmos works.."
"Now since I understand that the universe is alive"
This is a problem and does not match our ideas on life and importantly central nervous systems.
It ties in with what I said above about the omnipresent life force....wherever the environment is appropriate, the cosmos manifest form....micro to macro...and such forms evolve with experience..."the theory of evolution is not life arising from non-life, it is just a growing complexity of life from experience."
I have no idea what you mean here, nor is that the complexities of evolution.
Yes, the Sun, though not merely the manifested form, has cosmic awareness....but to ask me that question is like one bacterium in your body asking another one does this universe (presuming they have the equivalent of a Hubble Space Telescope), ie. meaning you in which they exist, have self awareness?You say the Earth is alive? If it is why doesn't it kick our butts off it as we poison it.
The sun is burning helium to hydrogen, does it think? Is it intelligent? Is it self aware?
Can you show at all the universe is self aware?
Fine. sorry Shawn..."Shawn, you appear to be a devout atheist of great faith in prophets like Hawking, but you have the potential within you to discover what and who you are in a greater context than the limited picture provided by materialism. All the best...."
Ben, I have to tell you, first you called me a Christian and now an atheist and use terms like the "great faith in prophets like Hawking" which are all wrong. I don't think or use the term "prophets" or faith" in science. I am not a christian or and atheist.
Fine, sorry Shawn...."but you have the potential within you to discover what and who you are in a greater context than the limited picture provided by materialism. All the best...'
I don't believe the universe or nature is a limited picture. I am also pretty happy with myself and the greater context and a deep peace. You keep trying to label me for some reason.