Biggest benefits of leaving a religion

[Secret Chief]

Beards are optional.

 

[Vee]

So, this doesn't only apply to religion, but can also apply to any other group if they don't promote freedom of thought, even an atheist group, and also might not apply to all religions. And it might not even apply to all people who are religious as I know there are religious people on this forum who it does not apply to.

But this is from my experience. I wonder if anybody else has had similar experiences.

For me the biggest and most cathartic benefit of leaving religion is freedom of thought and self expression.

I am free to change my mind at will, based on evidence provided.
I can be honest with how I think and feel without being told that my way of thinking and feeling is wrong.
I can be honest with myself and what I actually belief and do not feel pressured to belief certain specific things.
I can honestly explore other viewpoints honestly, thoroughly and openly without feeling like I am being a traitor.
I can honestly listen to critique about my viewpoints without feeling uncomfortable or attacked.
I don't assume that others who don't believe as I do are inherently wrong or misguided.
I don't have to feel I need to villainize those who are opposed to my beliefs.
I don't have to feel I need to refute scientific theories.
I can genuinely be interested in all religions and explore them without feeling like God will condemn me for being a traitor.
I don't have to engage in logical fallacies and mental gymnastic to defend views that I honestly do not believe in.
I am free to recognise and admit to when I am wrong and am totally comfortable with it.
I can "travel along the route" based on where the evidence leads me.

Any thought?
Any religions that you would apply what I experienced to?
Any disagreements?

Is there anything that doesn't start with I ?

 

[Trailblazer]

Understanding my psychological makeup has been a revelation.

I have found that is more than half the battle. I spent decades trying to figure myself out before I ever had anything to do with my religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm not sure which, I just think it's Über-supercessionist.
Prime example:

• Me: I believe in the Resurrection of Jesus.
• Baha'i: So do we.
• Me: Really?
• Baha'i: Yeah, we say it's a metaphor. The Bible is filled with metaphors and allegories.
• Me: ???

Hi Terry. It’s a controversial topic indeed but in all honesty we Bahá’ís don’t interpret the Bible or any Holy Book. We only believe in what God Himself tells us through His Prophets and Manifestations.

Baha’is believe very much in Jesus. But where we differ is that we believe He has already returned as He said He would and that He Himself has written in His own Words that the resurrection was not bodily.

That the concept of resurrection has become a superstition amongst the people can be cross referenced by other stories. The ‘vision on Mount Tabor where the disciples ‘saw ‘ Moses and Elijah and ‘heard’ the Voice of God. Yet Jesus said it was a ‘vision’. Nicodemus illustrates the point Perfectly where a spiritual meaning has been misinterpreted literally when he proclaimed ‘shall I enter my mother’s womb again? When told he had to be reborn. Let the dead bury the dead is another one. Many new translations now read “let the spiritual dead bury the physical dead’. And then there’s the Book of Revelation.

So our belief is that it’s not Baha’is that are saying that the resurrection was metaphorical but Jesus Himself Who we believe returned in the Glory of the Father, the Spirit of Truth and explained these things.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm not sure which, I just think it's Über-supercessionist.
Prime example:

• Me: I believe in the Resurrection of Jesus.
• Baha'i: So do we.
• Me: Really?
• Baha'i: Yeah, we say it's a metaphor. The Bible is filled with metaphors and allegories.
• Me: ???

John 14:20 "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."

Would one like to explain that without Metephor.

@Israel Khan
@loverofhumanity

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, this doesn't only apply to religion, but can also apply to any other group if they don't promote freedom of thought, even an atheist group, and also might not apply to all religions. And it might not even apply to all people who are religious as I know there are religious people on this forum who it does not apply to.

But this is from my experience. I wonder if anybody else has had similar experiences.

For me the biggest and most cathartic benefit of leaving religion is freedom of thought and self expression.

I am free to change my mind at will, based on evidence provided.
I can be honest with how I think and feel without being told that my way of thinking and feeling is wrong.
I can be honest with myself and what I actually belief and do not feel pressured to belief certain specific things.
I can honestly explore other viewpoints honestly, thoroughly and openly without feeling like I am being a traitor.
I can honestly listen to critique about my viewpoints without feeling uncomfortable or attacked.
I don't assume that others who don't believe as I do are inherently wrong or misguided.
I don't have to feel I need to villainize those who are opposed to my beliefs.
I don't have to feel I need to refute scientific theories.
I can genuinely be interested in all religions and explore them without feeling like God will condemn me for being a traitor.
I don't have to engage in logical fallacies and mental gymnastic to defend views that I honestly do not believe in.
I am free to recognise and admit to when I am wrong and am totally comfortable with it.
I can "travel along the route" based on where the evidence leads me.

Any thought?
Any religions that you would apply what I experienced to?
Any disagreements?

To me it depends on ones definition of religion.

I believe true religion is what the Messengers, Prophets and Manifestations of God actually teach not the man made dogmas and traditions taught by clergy.

The Prophets of God all taught love, unity, harmony, tolerance, kindness, mercy, forgiveness, honesty, truthfulness, Justice, to share and care for others, to be unselfish, to put others before ourselves, to be generous, hospitable, to be meek and humble, to be fair, to have a virtuous and upright character, to be charitable, to help the poor, needy and sick, to be thankful, gratitude, to be friendly and welcoming to all, to love all humanity as our family, to be wise, to comfort the sorrowful and distressed, to meditate, to pray, to perform good deeds, to be courteous.To be trustworthy. To keep ones promises. To be truthful.

To me civilisation depends on these very things. Without these qualities which have been the essence of what the Prophets and Messengers have taught I believe we struggle and cannot find peace or happiness as the Prophets have impressed on us continually that we are essentially spiritual beings and not until we live spiritual lives can we be truly happy, content and have both inner and world peace.

Just my humble view.

 

[Terry Sampson]

our belief is that it’s not Baha’is that are saying that the resurrection was metaphorical but Jesus Himself

I realize that. The question to you is: Are you able to conceive of a rational, reasonable person disagreeing with you and affirming that he believes in the very real, very literal resurrection of Jesus as predicted by Jesus himself? If you cannot conceive of that possibility, then you are doomed to be perplexed by your failure to shed light in the sunlight.

That the concept of resurrection has become a superstition

That's your Baha'i über-supercessationalist bias speaking.

The ‘vision on Mount Tabor where the disciples ‘saw ‘ Moses and Elijah and ‘heard’ the Voice of God. Yet Jesus said it was a ‘vision’.

What? you're gonna try that JW tripe on me. LOL!
I'm going to tell you the same thing I told a JW recently:

• Check out the Greek word at Acts 7:31. which is translated into English, in your New World Translation and the KJV, as: the SIGHT.
  
  So, in Acts 7, when Stephen said:
  • 30 “After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in the flame of a burning thorn bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he marveled at τὸ ὅραμα; and as he approached to look more closely, there came the voice of the Lord: 32 ‘I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.’ Moses shook with fear and would not venture to look. 33 But the Lord said to him, ‘Take off the sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.
  He really was saying, "When Moses saw it, he marveled at the vision; and as he approached to look more closely, there came the voice of the Lord ... But the Lord said to him, 'Take off the sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."
  
  Neat! A vision tells Moses that the ground on which he is standing is holy ground. Hmmm, ... Since when do persons who are not really there fuss over where a person is standing? The big mystery to me is that the Baha'i say Baha'ullah is the Manifestation of Jesus Christ. One would think that, if the Baha'ullah really was Jesus--and I don't think, for second, that he was--then he ought to know whether what occurred in his Transfiguration was something real or just a vision.
  
• [For original reference, see Exodus 3:1-5.
• 1. Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2. There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3. So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.” 4. When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!” And Moses said, “Here I am.” 5. “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” 6. Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.
• Moses said that what he saw with his eyes was τὸ ὅραμα ("the SIGHT", not "the vision").
  • From the Greek Septuagint: Exo 3:3 εἶπεν δὲ Μωυσῆς Παρελθὼν ὄψομαι τὸ ὅραμα τὸ μέγα τοῦτο, τί ὅτι οὐ κατακαίεται ὁ βάτος.
• Stephen said that what Moses saw with his eyes was τὸ ὅραμα ("the SIGHT", not "the vision").
  • Acts 7:31 ὁ δὲ Μωϋσῆς ἰδὼν ἐθαύμασε τὸ ὅραμα· προσερχομένου δὲ αὐτοῦ κατανοῆσαι ἐγένετο φωνὴ Κυρίου πρὸς αὐτόν·
• Jesus said that what his disciples saw was τὸ ὅραμα ("the SIGHT", not "the vision.)
  • Mat 17:9 Καὶ καταβαινόντων αὐτῶν ἀπὸ τοῦ ὄρους ἐνετείλατο αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς λέγων· μηδενὶ εἴπητε τὸ ὅραμα ἕως οὗ ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀναστῇ.

Nicodemus illustrates the point Perfectly where a spiritual meaning has been misinterpreted literally when he proclaimed ‘shall I enter my mother’s womb again?

Really? Nicodemus again? Sheesh!

• I bet Nicodemus got a big kick out of retelling that story till he died.
  • "So, Yehoshua tells me, "No one can see the Kingdom of God unless they are reborn." And instead of asking him to say more, I asked him how someone as old as I was was supposed to get back into my mother's womb again. And we both laughed, and then he explained what he was talking about.

Let the dead bury the dead is another one. Many new translations now read “let the spiritual dead bury the physical dead’.

Do tell? For 2000+/- years, Christians have left their dead for others to bury because they took Jesus' words literally and wouldn't bury their dead. Now, you're saying the Baha'i will bury them. Gee thanks.

 

[Trailblazer]

the very real, very literal resurrection of Jesus as predicted by Jesus himself?

Can you please point me to the verses wherein Jesus predicted the resurrection of His body from the grave?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I realize that. The question to you is: Are you able to conceive of a rational, reasonable person disagreeing with you and affirming that he believes in the very real, very literal resurrection of Jesus as predicted by Jesus himself? If you cannot conceive of that possibility, then you are doomed to be perplexed by your failure to shed light in the sunlight.

That's your Baha'i über-supercessationalist bias speaking.

What? you're gonna try that JW tripe on me. LOL!
I'm going to tell you the same thing I told a JW recently:

• Check out the Greek word at Acts 7:31. which is translated into English, in your New World Translation and the KJV, as: the SIGHT.
  
  So, in Acts 7, when Stephen said:
  • 30 “After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in the flame of a burning thorn bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he marveled at τὸ ὅραμα; and as he approached to look more closely, there came the voice of the Lord: 32 ‘I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.’ Moses shook with fear and would not venture to look. 33 But the Lord said to him, ‘Take off the sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.
  He really was saying, "When Moses saw it, he marveled at the vision; and as he approached to look more closely, there came the voice of the Lord ... But the Lord said to him, 'Take off the sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."
  
  Neat! A vision tells Moses that the ground on which he is standing is holy ground. Hmmm, ... Since when do persons who are not really there fuss over where a person is standing? The big mystery to me is that the Baha'i say Baha'ullah is the Manifestation of Jesus Christ. One would think that, if the Baha'ullah really was Jesus--and I don't think, for second, that he was--then he ought to know whether what occurred in his Transfiguration was something real or just a vision.
  
• [For original reference, see Exodus 3:1-5.
• 1. Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2. There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3. So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.” 4. When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!” And Moses said, “Here I am.” 5. “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” 6. Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.
• Moses said that what he saw with his eyes was τὸ ὅραμα ("the SIGHT", not "the vision").
  • From the Greek Septuagint: Exo 3:3 εἶπεν δὲ Μωυσῆς Παρελθὼν ὄψομαι τὸ ὅραμα τὸ μέγα τοῦτο, τί ὅτι οὐ κατακαίεται ὁ βάτος.
• Stephen said that what Moses saw with his eyes was τὸ ὅραμα ("the SIGHT", not "the vision").
  • Acts 7:31 ὁ δὲ Μωϋσῆς ἰδὼν ἐθαύμασε τὸ ὅραμα· προσερχομένου δὲ αὐτοῦ κατανοῆσαι ἐγένετο φωνὴ Κυρίου πρὸς αὐτόν·
• Jesus said that what his disciples saw was τὸ ὅραμα ("the SIGHT", not "the vision.)
  • Mat 17:9 Καὶ καταβαινόντων αὐτῶν ἀπὸ τοῦ ὄρους ἐνετείλατο αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς λέγων· μηδενὶ εἴπητε τὸ ὅραμα ἕως οὗ ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀναστῇ.

Really? Nicodemus again? Sheesh!

• I bet Nicodemus got a big kick out of retelling that story till he died.
  • "So, Yehoshua tells me, "No one can see the Kingdom of God unless they are reborn." And instead of asking him to say more, I asked him how someone as old as I was was supposed to get back into my mother's womb again. And we both laughed, and then he explained what he was talking about.

Do tell? For 2000+/- years, Christians have left their dead for others to bury because they took Jesus' words literally and wouldn't bury their dead. Now, you're saying the Baha'i will bury them. Gee thanks.

Your views are your sacred God given right so I respect them and accept that is your belief.

I think that all we can do is each go his own way in goodwill and let God decide the matter.
(Baha'u'llah)

He (Jesus) it is who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. (Baha'u'llah)

 

[InChrist]

Baptists can be very black and white in their views. And their view of predestination is that those who are the true Christians have been predetermined by God, so nobody else has a chance. A very weird view.

Do you mean Calvinists? Calvinism doctrine says God predetermined who is and who isn’t saved. I’m not Baptist, yet I know there are some Baptists who are Calvinists, many and probably most are not and would strongly consider such a view as unbiblical.

 

[InChrist]

Can you please point me to the verses wherein Jesus predicted the resurrection of His body from the grave?

John 2:19-22

 

[PruePhillip]

That depends on the religion. If it makes claims about the physical world, then those claims can be examined by science.

So if a religious book says that the "sun sets in a puddle of mud" literally for instance, then we can say that that religion is wrong by examining the claim using scientific methods.

For those things we cannot examine, what is a reliable way to determine whether the religion is true?

One can also use psychology and logic to examine religions as well.

Yes and no. I speak for Judaeo Christianity. It is a religious book and makes no claim about the
physical world. Where it does do this I think it's speaking metaphorically. The Catholic Church
defending the Ptolomy view of the world by quoting Solomon - the sun rises in the east, sets in
the west and hastens back to where it began.
There's two creation accounts in Genesis. I hold one to be figurative and the other to be a symbolic
account (ie the "days") of what actually happened, ie first the universe, then the earth. The earth is
dark and oceanic. The skies open, the continents rise, life emerges from the land (fresh water) and
then from the sea. Finally man. That's super interesting.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Can you please point me to the verses wherein Jesus predicted the resurrection of His body from the grave?

 

[Vinayaka]

So, this doesn't only apply to religion, but can also apply to any other group if they don't promote freedom of thought, even an atheist group, and also might not apply to all religions. And it might not even apply to all people who are religious as I know there are religious people on this forum who it does not apply to.

But this is from my experience. I wonder if anybody else has had similar experiences.

For me the biggest and most cathartic benefit of leaving religion is freedom of thought and self expression.

I am free to change my mind at will, based on evidence provided.
I can be honest with how I think and feel without being told that my way of thinking and feeling is wrong.
I can be honest with myself and what I actually belief and do not feel pressured to belief certain specific things.
I can honestly explore other viewpoints honestly, thoroughly and openly without feeling like I am being a traitor.
I can honestly listen to critique about my viewpoints without feeling uncomfortable or attacked.
I don't assume that others who don't believe as I do are inherently wrong or misguided.
I don't have to feel I need to villainize those who are opposed to my beliefs.
I don't have to feel I need to refute scientific theories.
I can genuinely be interested in all religions and explore them without feeling like God will condemn me for being a traitor.
I don't have to engage in logical fallacies and mental gymnastic to defend views that I honestly do not believe in.
I am free to recognise and admit to when I am wrong and am totally comfortable with it.
I can "travel along the route" based on where the evidence leads me.

Any thought?
Any religions that you would apply what I experienced to?
Any disagreements?

On this topic there is lots of great discussion, and insight on ex-________ forums. (Most religions have one or two where former adhernts discuss what happened to them, how they're coping, etc.) Some of the stories are really wonderfully uplifting to read.

 

[Deidre]

I think that there'd only be a benefit leaving a religion that I no longer believed in. There'd be many benefits then.

 

[Aupmanyav]

For me the biggest and most cathartic benefit of leaving religion is freedom of thought and self expression.

But who said that it is necessary to leave the religion for freedom of thought and self-expression?

I have found that is more than half the battle. I spent decades trying to figure myself out before I ever had anything to do with my religion.

Yeah, 'I' has no place n your religion. It is Bahaollah, his son or his great grandson only.

John 14:20 "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."
Would one like to explain that without Metephor.

That is true only in Advaita Hinduism (non-duality), which does not differentiate between father, son, you and me.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So our belief is that it’s not Baha’is that are saying that the resurrection was metaphorical but Jesus Himself Who we believe returned in the Glory of the Father, the Spirit of Truth and explained these things.

I am Jesus, Saoshyant, Krishna and Buddha because I say so.

The Prophets of God all taught love, unity, ..

Every Tom, Dick and Harry said that.

That's your Baha'i über-supercessationalist bias speaking. ..
Now, you're saying the Baha'i will bury them. Gee thanks.

^^^

He (Jesus) it is who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. (Baha'u'llah)

And I am He (Jesus).
BTW, did Bahaollah ever said that or you people are making him that? Will you kindly give me his words on this?

 

[Trailblazer]

Actually, it was not Jesus who said that, it was the Gospel writers who wrote that Jesus said that, writers who wrote about Jesus but never even knew Jesus.

 

[osgart]

I am Jesus, Saoshyant, Krishna and Buddha because I say so.

View attachment 40271 Every Tom, Dick and Harry said that.
^^^And I am He (Jesus).
BTW, did Bahaollah ever said that or you people are making him that? Will you kindly give me his words on this?

Actually the napkin does not have any revealing or persuasive words. So be it falls short of the true religion.

 

[Trailblazer]

John 2:19-22

Actually, it was not Jesus who said that, it was the Gospel writers who wrote that Jesus said that decades after Jesus walked the earth, writers who never even knew Jesus. It is called oral tradition.