Bigotry: Yes or No? Dawkins and Voting for a Mormon

[tempter]

Thanks for saying so. I had kind of wanted to respond to Tempter's post myself, but it seemed kind of presumptuous of me to tell him his experience wasn't "accurate." Who knows... maybe all of the Mormons he has had anything to do with are exactly as he described. If that's the case, though, he has managed to find a whole bushel of bad apples, which is really pretty unlikely. I really appreciate your pointing out that your experience hasn't been anything like his. I really think it's more typical than his, too.

So it would seem you're calling me a liar without coming out and saying it. :yes:
There would be no reason that I could think of that would make someone be less than honest in describing one's experience.
No where in my post did I say my experience is what others can expect, or equal across the board. I simply relayed my experience.
To me, it's very telling that someone would claim, indirectly, that someone else's experience is a lie simply because that's not their experience. When someone does this - being defensive - it's very telling of the individual in question.
Again, JMO based on my experience. But as you're so kind to point out, it's probably a lie anyway, right?

 

[gnostic]

I think it was worse when about half the country had elected a southern baptist with cowboy mentality like Bush junior, or b-graded movie actor like Reagan. What were they thinking.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I think it was worse when about half the country had elected a southern baptist with cowboy mentality like Bush junior, or b-graded movie actor like Reagan. What were they thinking.

Judging by some interviews I've seen they were thinking; "This guy could be fun to have over for a BBQ..." instead of "This guy can really govern our country." which is what they should have been thinking.

I've never understood people who vote based on their feelings rather than their rationality.
The Norwegian prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg, is probably not someone I would care to share a bottle of scotch with as he seems somewhat dry and stiff in his demeanor.
But he is wicked smart and graduated from BI (major economic university in Norway) with the highest scores on record.
Whether he's the kind of fun guy I'd like to have over for dinner is completely irrelevant.
The only thing that matters is if I think he is the most skilled person on the ballot to run my country or not.
I don't have to like him.
I just have to trust his capabilities and intentions.

 

[Watchmen]

So it would seem you're calling me a liar without coming out and saying it. :yes:
There would be no reason that I could think of that would make someone be less than honest in describing one's experience.
No where in my post did I say my experience is what others can expect, or equal across the board. I simply relayed my experience.
To me, it's very telling that someone would claim, indirectly, that someone else's experience is a lie simply because that's not their experience. When someone does this - being defensive - it's very telling of the individual in question.
Again, JMO based on my experience. But as you're so kind to point out, it's probably a lie anyway, right?

I encourage you to reread Katzpur's post. I think you'll see your off the mark.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again, JMO based on my experience. But as you're so kind to point out, it's probably a lie anyway, right?

I don't think it's so much that she is calling you a liar, it is that you are lumping everyone who is a Mormon into one group. One Mormon guy I knew said nothing negative when another person and I were discussing the South Park episode "All About Mormons." We were laughing and joking about the episode, and the guy who was Mormon didn't treat me any differently after that despite my repeating many things said on the episode.

 

[Katzpur]

So it would seem you're calling me a liar without coming out and saying it.

I encourage you to reread Katzpur's post. I think you'll see your off the mark.

I don't think it's so much that she is calling you a liar, it is that you are lumping everyone who is a Mormon into one group.

Of course I wasn't calling tempter a liar. I was simply saying that I believed his experience to be atypical. But who cares? If he wants to intentionally misread my post, there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[gnomon]

If Richard Dawkins disliked peanut butter it would constitute hundreds of replies to analyze that statement. A recent, and prominent, Cardinal passes away after seriously criticizing the Catholic Church and it barely merits a burp.

Oh gee.

 

[DeepShadow]

Of course it's bigotry. Dawkins has made if very clear elsewhere that he thinks someone's membership in the LDS church is grounds for not voting for them. How does this not amount to a religious test for public office?

 

[camanintx]

Of course it's bigotry. Dawkins has made if very clear elsewhere that he thinks someone's membership in the LDS church is grounds for not voting for them. How does this not amount to a religious test for public office?

Because Dawkins doesn't represent the federal government. The religious test only applies to government. The people can, and often do, apply any religious test they want when deciding who to vote for.

 

[Father Heathen]

Of course it's bigotry. Dawkins has made if very clear elsewhere that he thinks someone's membership in the LDS church is grounds for not voting for them. How does this not amount to a religious test for public office?

Would you vote for an atheist candidate? If not, what's the difference?

 

[Ingledsva]

A recent quote from Richard Dawkins and his twitter in reference to the Curiosity landing:



So, is it bigotry, or not, to claim that half of Americans are worthy of condemnation simply because they are considering voting for a Mormon?

I wouldn't vote for him, - not because he is a Mormon, - but because of the things the guy has said....


*

 

[DeepShadow]

Because Dawkins doesn't represent the federal government. The religious test only applies to government. The people can, and often do, apply any religious test they want when deciding who to vote for.

And whenever they do so to exclude people from holding office, that's called "bigotry." Advocating a religious test of any kind as a vote filter is nothing more than organized bigotry.

Would you vote for an atheist candidate? If not, what's the difference?

Of course I would, if I agreed with his/her political stance! There is no difference. That's why I've argued repeatedly against how seven US states (Arkansas, Maryland, Mississippi, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas) forbid atheists from holding public office. That's immoral and unconstitutional. Vote for them by their actions and policies, rather than their religious beliefs!

Is it really so hard to see the bigotry and prejudice in this?!

 

[fantome profane]

I have to admit that knowing that someone was a member of an organization that had actively campaigned against equal rights would definitely give me pause.

That is not to say I absolutely would never vote for a Mormon, but I would require them to clearly and unambiguously spell out their personal position on that issue.

Does that make me bigoted?

 

[ChristineES]

A recent quote from Richard Dawkins and his twitter in reference to the Curiosity landing:



So, is it bigotry, or not, to claim that half of Americans are worthy of condemnation simply because they are considering voting for a Mormon?

I think it is bigotry. When it comes to voting for a candidate, I vote for their stand on issues and stuff not for what religion a guy follows. How would Dawkins feel if someone said the same thing about an atheist candidate?

 

[LuisDantas]

If he could find an atheist group that believed that people would be reborn in another planet or something, sure, let him criticize them as well.

I just don't see how his criticism can be bigotry unless it is innacurate or misrepresentative.

Is he misrepresenting Mormon beliefs?

 

[Katzpur]

Is he misrepresenting Mormon beliefs?

What, specifically, did he say about Mormon beliefs? I'm not sure what statement/s you might be referring to.

 

[LuisDantas]

What, specifically, did he say about Mormon beliefs? I'm not sure what statement/s you might be referring to.

From the OP's quote:

(...) a man who believes he'll get a planet when he dies. It is all the more to the credit of the sane, rational half of America that it manages to achieve so much despite being positively held back by the other half, the half that believes the universe is 6000 years old, the half that seriously contemplates voting for a Mormon.

 

[Watchmen]

From the OP's quote:

Yep. Sounds like he's misrepresenting things.

 

[Iti oj]

A recent quote from Richard Dawkins and his twitter in reference to the Curiosity landing:



So, is it bigotry, or not, to claim that half of Americans are worthy of condemnation simply because they are considering voting for a Mormon?

Yes. The candidate in questions faith did not run his political campaign. Besides abortion I don't think his faith effected policy at all.

 

[Sunstone]

So, is it bigotry, or not, to claim that half of Americans are worthy of condemnation simply because they are considering voting for a Mormon?

Condemnation? Pretty much a spin word in this context. Try "criticism". The more fair and balanced choice.