Bilingual/Non-english-speaking Americans

[Ormiston]

I had an argument today with two of my coworkers who are both from an older generation. They take offense to people speaking a foreign language in public, to certain states requiring Spanish be taught in schools, and to immigrants to who don't try to learn English. Is this just another form of racism? I'm not one to use a word like racism lightly but I just can't find any logic behind their arguments outside of fear. Fear of change to be more specific.

Any thoughts?

 

[CAPPA]

I had an argument today with two of my coworkers who are both from an older generation. They take offense to people speaking a foreign language in public, to certain states requiring Spanish be taught in schools, and to immigrants to who don't try to learn English. Is this just another form of racism? I'm not one to use a word like racism lightly but I just can't find any logic behind their arguments outside of fear. Fear of change to be more specific.

Any thoughts?

[font=&quot]hEY ORMISTON, after reading your post, I decided to put myself in their shoes, only as a means to understand where they are coming from. I too, have spoken to other people of older generations who have disliked the ideas of change on a number of topics. I believe that their statement can be labeled as racist; however, the underlying cause may just be the changes these events bring about. Moreover, the language and the immigration will continue to grow in percent. It is a change they will have to deal with. And, perhaps, come to a conclusion that immigration is what made this country.[/font]

 

[Buttercup]

I can't imagine being annoyed at merely listening to people converse in their native language. I find it interesting.

As far as Spanish being required education in schools, do you mean elementary schools? It is still a requirement to take foreign language in high school to enter college.

And criticizing immigrants who don't want to learn English....hmmm, not sure I'd call that racism but it isn't very smart. They will have a much harder time acclimating in our country if they don't learn to speak our language yet, if they did learn English and retained fluent Spanish speaking skills, they would be a more valuable employee therefore making more money in some cases.

 

[Aqualung]

I had an argument today with two of my coworkers who are both from an older generation. They take offense to people speaking a foreign language in public, to certain states requiring Spanish be taught in schools, and to immigrants to who don't try to learn English. Is this just another form of racism? I'm not one to use a word like racism lightly but I just can't find any logic behind their arguments outside of fear. Fear of change to be more specific.

Any thoughts?

I think it's bad that immigrants won't learn this language, but I think for the most part, most immigrants are trying to. Most aren't actually "refusing" to learn. I think America needs to be united by a common language. We're so diverse otherwise that we need something to unify us. That something should be language. After all, as the tower of BAbel suggests, a common language is a powerful thing. People shouldn't be able to come here and be waited on (by us having to change for them and learn their language).

 

[jeffrey]

The town we live in is dubbed 'Little Mexico' because of the large Spanish speaking population there. Tyson has a plant there that imports people from Latin America to work there. Our neighbors are from Mexico and do not speak a word of English. He works for the chicken plant, his wife comes over to get up to help her top her phone off. It's hard, but we manage. There's racism in the town towards them, so they usually stick to themselves. This is a plays into them not learning English,

 

[d.]

i think they're mostly afraid that they're talking about THEM and they can't understand what they're saying.

 

[jeffrey]

Also, do you not have to have some English skills to become a U.S. citizen? And do not work permits expire? If some have no intention of staying, why bother?

 

[Aqualung]

See, though, you don't have to know english. English isn't our national language. We don't have a national language. We need one, though, to unify us and keep us from having to waste a ton of money all the time.

 

[Quiddity]

I try to be respectful and aware of such people. I worked for a company that didn't allow anything but English to be spoken. Many of the non-Hispanic Engineers found it difficult to analyze manufacturing problems because they couldn't get a clear and complete story out of the Hispanic operators. As soon as I started working there, I was able to resolve the problem with a 2-3 minute conversation. Was it because they didn't want to learn English? Nope, they all spoke good English (with an accent though). It was mainly due to cultural differences and how things were expressed and said. This caused many of the operators to shy away from conversations and to express themselves freely. Something they did with me in a matter of seconds simply because I spoke Spanish and could relate to them. I don't really know why people fear it though. It's probably because of divine said. Perhaps someone that is offended by this can share.

 

[No*s]

I had an argument today with two of my coworkers who are both from an older generation. They take offense to people speaking a foreign language in public, to certain states requiring Spanish be taught in schools, and to immigrants to who don't try to learn English. Is this just another form of racism? I'm not one to use a word like racism lightly but I just can't find any logic behind their arguments outside of fear. Fear of change to be more specific.

Any thoughts?

Not necessarily, but it can be. They are western people. Our civilisation has a long history of monolinguism. Virtually all western civilisations see language as a chief unifying power. This has been so for us ever since Rome. At that time, everyone had to speak Latin (early on), and at one point, they even drove Greeks from the city, because they taught children Greek first, and not Latin. The British Empire continued the tradition. The missionaries frequently taught people English so that they could understand the message, rather than translate the bulk into their language.

This is a long-standing issue in the West, and it's present in Mexico's history as well. Frankly, they're just being western people. They may not even care what race they are, just that since they're here, we need English to be spoken here or it will all fall apart. Naturally all sorts of fears feed into this (such as the one that Divine cited; I have actually heard that as a reason justifyijng it).

That's a part of our culture I don't like. I won't require a foreigner to learn our language (of course, I'm not required to learn his lol). There is something gained from a polyglot structure as opposed to a monolingual.

 

[Ormiston]

Isn't it funny how when two people (or more) see eye-to-eye on something how quickly their fire burns? When I interrupted and disagreed their collective blood-pressure when through the roof! But, after a couple of minutes of calm discussion (calm only because we've all had it out many times before) they actually seemed like they could understand my side of it.

I told my manager (he's 62 and feels uncomfortable when people are speaking a foreign language in public) that I used to work in a black neighborhood (I'm a white suburb kid) and that I intentionally stopped at a gas station in that neighborhood only because the white guys I worked with told me not to. There were about 13 black guys in line in front of me and I FELT REAL UNCOMFORTABLE. I think it was the longest line I ever stood in. But, was anyone doing anything wrong? No. My uncomfort was MY problem.

The one concept they couldn't get was the necessity of Spanish in certain regions. They'd rather say "F" the Mexicans than come up with a strategy that worked. They call me Liberal...."Well, if I'm liberal than conservative must be wrong!" was all I could think.

 

[Flappycat]

I had an argument today with two of my coworkers who are both from an older generation. They take offense to people speaking a foreign language in public, to certain states requiring Spanish be taught in schools, and to immigrants to who don't try to learn English. Is this just another form of racism? I'm not one to use a word like racism lightly but I just can't find any logic behind their arguments outside of fear. Fear of change to be more specific.

Any thoughts?

I appreciate people who frequently use other languages to speak. That is a good thing. People who refuse to learn our language and expect us to accord the courtesty they are unwilling to accord us, however, bothers me. I am fond of the notion of this becoming a multilingual society and welcome it. I need to be able to conduct business with people, though, and I expect to be able to do so in the only language I currently speak.

Some people do dislike people speaking in an alien language around them, though, for they feel it is akin to whispering into someone's ear. Bilingual children sometimes give their schoolmates a hard time by saying rude things about them and giggling in their general direction. On the brighter side, according to one friend of mine who supervises some immigrant workers, it can be fun to surprise the offender with fluency in the language on such occassions if timed properly.

 

[No*s]

I appreciate people who frequently use other languages to speak. That is a good thing. People who refuse to learn our language and expect us to accord the courtesty they are unwilling to accord us, however, bothers me. I am fond of the notion of this becoming a multilingual society and welcome it. I need to be able to conduct business with people, though, and I expect to be able to do so in the only language I currently speak.

Some people do dislike people speaking in an alien language around them, though, for they feel it is akin to whispering into someone's ear. Bilingual children sometimes give their schoolmates a hard time by saying rude things about them and giggling in their general direction. On the brighter side, according to one friend of mine who supervises some immigrant workers, it can be fun to surprise the offender with fluency in the language on such occassions if timed properly.

Yeah, that reminds me of an experience I had recently (in a round-about way). I was checking a woman out, and she said some thigns to me in Spanish. I don't understand Spanish, so I was confused. After a couple of minutes, she spoke to me in English and cussed me out for not doing what she had told me to (after I had said, "If you can understand this, I can't speak Spanish," which she could clearly understand given the end). I've had that experience several times now. That's why I don't require others to learn my language, but the same goes in reciprocation; I am not required to learn every other language myself.

 

[James the Persian]

i think they're mostly afraid that they're talking about THEM and they can't understand what they're saying.

Well, they might be. One of the beauties of being able to speak a language that most others can't understand is that it allows you to talk without being understood by others. My wife and I do this all the time given that the chances of coming across a Romanian speaker outside of our parish is pretty much nil. My wife speaks extremely good English (particularly given that she's never had formal lessons) but if we're out in public and we want to talk about something private or if we feel the need to swear or say anything that might, but we don't wish to, cause offence, then we use Romanian. Usually, I find that those who object to speaking foreign languages in public tend to object to people like my wife and I, who do speak English but choose not to, far more than those who do not speak English at all. I have a suspicion that that's because they are only able to manage the one language themselves, but perhaps that's being a little uncharitable.

James

 

[Smoke]

My hometown was first settled by Spanish subjects. My great-great-grandfather lived in the U.S. for 47 years, and refused to allow anyone to speak English in his house; he also belonged to a German-speaking labor union, and read a German-language newspaper. I had a neighbor in Jersey City who was just beginning to learn English after 20 years in New Jersey.

I'm all for requiring schoolchildren to learn English and Spanish -- and at least one other language. Languages are easier to learn when you're young; we wait too late to start.

 

[mrscardero]

I am bilingual. I speak Tagalog which is pretty close to Spanish. Guess that's why I passed Spanish in highschool with flying colors. I came from this country not knowing how to speak English. I was adopted by my biological fathers first cousin and her American husband. When I came to this country, my adopted dad said that I am not to speak to him unless I only spoke in English :tsk: . It was tough asking him anything in english. I learned and it took me a while, but I did it with the help of teachers at my school and him. The only person I spoke tagalog to is my adopted mom. She said never to forget where you came from. I lost my accent after a year of learning English but I never forget my language. I speak to my step mom who was married to my biological father in tagalog. My half sister forgot how to speak our language but understands what I am saying.

My adopted parents had past away so I lived with a family for 4 years that spoke handuran. They were my adopted dad's family who were my cousins. My cousin who I called mom is American and married her husband who spoke very very little english. She supervices a factory where not a lot of them understood English so she had to learn to speak their language. She gets paid very well for being bilingual. When ever I am with my mom and there are people who are speaking spanish in front of us, she would tell me if something was being said that would offend her in anyway. But she usually just laughs. There was one incident where we went to a chinese restaurant for take out and there were these two hispanic males talking. She told me to wait in the car instead of waiting with her. She came out with our food 5 minutes later. I asked her why she had sent me to the car. She said, "I may not look like I speak their language, but I can understand them. When they talk about two people of different skin color being together, it bugs the crap out of me. I went up to them and told them in spanish that you are my daughter and to respect all that appears in front of their eyes no matter what color or race they are. Even if they don't look like they speak their language, they might be surprised."

I senseed racism because they looked at us like "Why are we together?" "Why are we not with our own kind?" But I know that not everyone is like them.

I also believe it's the not being able to understand if someone is talking about them or not. I don't really mind if they are talking in their language. It's really interesting. Makes me want to get out my CD of different languages and start learning.

I get all giddy when I hear people speak my language :dan: . It's very hard finding people that speak tagalog around here. cardero tries to speak a few of my language but gets it all twisted and he just ends up making me laugh because he tries and I know he means well. I think that if you want to learn another language, go for it. Some jobs pay more for knowing another language. If they want to learn english to get better jobs, they will.

If they want to just speak their language and talk about you, how do you know they are talking about you? You can't understand them...or can you? Just like the saying. Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you.

Can you tell me that we don't talk about them? We are talking about them now.
In English by the way

 

[Ðanisty]

...and to immigrants to who don't try to learn English.

I have a problem with this. I don't mind people speaking foreign languages in public and I think it's great that they are teaching foreign languages in school. It's much easier to learn when you're young. I think though that if you're going to look for opportunity in this country, you should respect us and appreciate us enough to learn our language. I would never think of moving to another country without learning their language. I'm not saying they've got to be fluent when they get here, but they need to make an effort.

 

[evearael]

As an absent-minded polyglot (Japanese, Chinese, French, German, Hebrew... and soon Arabic), I can appreciate people conversing in whatever tongue they like. It falls under the catagory of free speech. I believe most immigrants do make an effort, but it does take some time, and not all Americans are accomodating to those still learning. Thus, it is only natural to want to relax and talk to people who can readily understand you. That said, I believe it is rude to curse someone out just because you cannot speak their tongue.