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Bill Maher: "When Did Liberals Become the Fun Police?"

Stanyon

WWMRD?
So you admit there is a point where something is in bad taste? Well that's the "political correctness" that usually everyone is raging about!

For adults they should be able to handle it but children shouldn't be exposed to the example I showed, besides it probably wouldn't be very wise for someone to do that:
Next day at school:
Teacher: "How was your Halloween Billy?"
Billy: " It was alright but there was this guy that was chasing me around wearing a robe and he had a boner"

That's how long it takes
 

ecco

Veteran Member
This a a strawman and not related to what I said. First and foremost no one least of all me has called for a ban on anything.
What strawman?
Did I say you called for a ban?


As for each costume, I don't think that dressing up as a mariachi band is in of itself an issue, just when it's conjoined with racist stereotypes.
So, if I wear a mariachi costume and sing in Spanish, it's OK. If I wear a mariachi costume and sing in Spanish while holding a bottle of tequila and munching on a taco, it's racist.


The pope costume doesn't seem stereotypical either.
But if I wore it and was accompanied by my petite wife dressed as an alter boy...?

Now as per the witch costume, I've know and have known a lot of real witches. At the very least the majority are annoyed with the caricatures if not offended. Imagine if every time someone found out you were a witch they pictured that and started applying fantasy tropes to you.

It's getting really fuzzy on where you would draw lines.


Similarly as a Satanist I get pretty pissed at the depiction of Satanists as being bloodthirsty psychos because just like with the witch, these beliefs about us are being perpetuated by some of those types of depictions.

So, you must be really pissed about Netflix’s The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina

People seem to make "political correctness" to be some bogyman within America that is going to "take away" fun stuff. All it really is is a suggestion on being nicer to other people.



He already followed up with it, but certain things like headdresses have a special meaning, here is a Native American on it to give an idea:

"It's just like how if people were to don military honors and decorations on their blazers without having actually gone through the process of wearing them," Dorsey said."

That's a real stretch. If someone wants to dress up as Patton on Halloween it's no different than dressing up as a plumber.

Earlier you said...
First and foremost no one least of all me has called for a ban on anything.​

And now I read...
The Satanic Temple is reportedly pursuing legal action against Netflix’s The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina — not only for using its copyrighted monument design of its central icon, but also misrepresenting the deity as “something evil.”

On Sunday, The Satanic Temple (TST) co-founder Lucien Greaves tweeted that Sabrina was promoting their “asinine Satanic Panic fiction,” using the Temple’s copyrighted statue design of Baphomet, a goat-headed deity typically associated with Satan.​




Sure, on Halloween or in theatrical plays.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
FYI I have no affiliation with The Satanic Temple and I've not seen the show. I don't know the facts reguarding their supposed copyright, it may simply be on their specific design in the specific way they did it (kinda like how you can copyright a specific performance of Mozart but not Mozart itself)
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
There may be a difference in many people's minds between showing respect for other cultures and being PC which is an effort of someone from a dominant culture to look good on behalf of non-dominant cultures. Being PC may be especially irritating as it both seems to be an effort of respect and yet an affront of its own kind at the same time.

The irritation factor of political correctness is not an argument against the existence of concern from minorities about racism but an artifact of people wanting not to offend but not yet knowing how to do it.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Speaking personally, as a phantom, I am deeply offended by the living dressing up in cheap stereotypical insensitive ghost costumes.
View attachment 25162

This is not what I look like at at. If you saw what I really look like you would have nightmares for the rest of your life.

Boo!

Just imagine how those that identifying as bed sheets feel. /smh
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Its really about empathy and unintentionally hurting someone's feelings and some people going out of their way to look good by criticizing someone else for maybe hurting yet someone else.

Its also about growing up in a more high-feedback culture and having to let go of one's "innocent" projections onto "others" and having to find more appropriate ways to get in contact with your inner other.

I think superheroes are easy choices for costumes because the costume overwhelms any sense of cultural involvement for the most part and there is no real question of exploitation.

Fictional characters are good. Occupational costumes (police, firemen, etc...) not an issue.

Costumes of particular real people who are politically controversial are not good.

Cross-cultural costumes are good in my book so long as the individual has a sincere appreciation and isn't meaning to be disrespectful. If someone comes up to you in your cross-cultural costume and asks you why you are dressed that way, tell them the story of how you think it/they are really cool and that should be enough.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Its really about empathy and unintentionally hurting someone's feelings and some people going out of their way to look good by criticizing someone else for maybe hurting yet someone else.

Its also about growing up in a more high-feedback culture and having to let go of one's "innocent" projections onto "others" and having to find more appropriate ways to get in contact with your inner other.

I think superheroes are easy choices for costumes because the costume overwhelms any sense of cultural involvement for the most part and there is no real question of exploitation.

Fictional characters are good. Occupational costumes (police, firemen, etc...) not an issue.

Costumes of particular real people who are politically controversial are not good.

Cross-cultural costumes are good in my book so long as the individual has a sincere appreciation and isn't meaning to be disrespectful. If someone comes up to you in your cross-cultural costume and asks you why you are dressed that way, tell them the story of how you think it/they are really cool and that should be enough.

What about a play on words? Like cereal killer. Get a few of the single serve boxes, cut some jagged holes, add white paint or marker as milk instead of red for blood. Maybe get a big spoon with white on it as well. Mutter about killing Captain Crunch.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
What about a play on words? Like cereal killer. Get a few of the single serve boxes, cut some jagged holes, add white paint or marker as milk instead of red for blood. Maybe get a big spoon with white on it as well. Mutter about killing Captain Crunch.

In a community recently or currently experiencing attacks from a serial killer...probably not. Otherwise, why not?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
In a community recently or currently experiencing attacks from a serial killer...probably not. Otherwise, why not?

Naturally I must ask if there is a waiting period for headdresses? After all if time can reduce the risk of offense in one can it not be applicable in another? Such per Kimmel's Karl Malone which few cared about at the time.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
So with all of that, I think that "political correctness" isn't an issue, because in my view it's largely a strawman when you actually look at the data which kind of shows that everyone is for some kind of censorship and consider different things even to be hate speech.

So you think political correctness is a fake issue because there's worse than political correctness? If so, can you see anything wrong with that reasoning?

And in the middle of all of this, just as the Vox article pointed out, is people claiming that people like me saying to just be a bit' nicer are being conflated with people who want to ban things. I mean hell 47% of republicans want to violate the 1st amendment by banning building new mosques! Why do we never talk about the censorship advocated by Republicans which all the research in those links show are much more likely to want to stifle free speech?

So you're arguing that the choice is to either discuss political correctness or discuss Republican efforts to suppress free speech? If so, can you see anything wrong with that reasoning?
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So you think political correctness is a fake issue because there's worse than political correctness? If so, can you see anything wrong with that reasoning?

So you're arguing that the choice is to either discuss political correctness or discuss Republican efforts to suppress free speech? If so, can you see anything wrong with that reasoning?

1. That isn't at all what I said. I'm saying that it's a buzzword that is vague and kind of meaningless and that when you are much more specific a large chunk of people are less opposed to the idea of censoring others either legally or socially. And what people consider hate speech or acceptable censorship varies between political group and race. The numbers are all there in the articles.

2. No, I am not. Perhaps you should look at the articles, it listed much more than just what conservatives wanted to suppress, even in that one quote I showed things liberals wanted to suppress. My overall point is that everyone is a hypocrite.

I don't see how political correctness and free speech are separate issues, since they both revolve around speech and censorship. Political correctness just in my mind, the only difference in regards to the discussion is that it connotates social pressure and sometimes organizations platforming someone rather than something done by the government. It's an important distinction of course, but they are still entwined in each other.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
First part of video makes fun of far right conservative attitudes towards Halloween. Second part of video starts at 3:08 and makes fun of far left liberal attitudes towards Halloween.

Comments? Questions?

Meaningless propaganda trash. Liberals are fun police only because the propaganda spins them that way. There are 340 million people in this country. The number opinions expressed on TV does not come close to reality. If Bill Maher thinks liberals are fun police then he's spending too much time watching right wing propaganda.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I just want to say something about “political correctness”. I get what Bill Maher is saying, and for the most part I agree. I think it is good to try to be sensitive to racial stereotypes and cultural misappropriation, but there is such a thing as being overly sensitive.

That being said I think there is a much more dangerous and insidious form of political correctness infecting our culture today, ane most people don’t recognize it as political correctness, but that is exactly what it is.

Every time Donald Trump says “fake news”, or calls the media the “enemy of the people”, that is him trying to impose political correctness on the culture. One of the talking heads on fox the other day actually said that if the media does not want to be called the enemy of the people they should report the news the way Trump wants them too. That is political correctness at its most vile and dangerous. Compared to this the issue of Halloween costumes is absolutely trivial. This is dangerous.

And there are large segments of the population that simply refuse to accept facts unless they match what the President is telling them, and he lies. This is political correctness too. And we need to start calling it out. Political correctness is not only a problem on the left. It is a much much more serious and dangerous problem on the right.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I just want to say something about “political correctness”. I get what Bill Maher is saying, and for the most part I agree. I think it is good to try to be sensitive to racial stereotypes and cultural misappropriation, but there is such a thing as being overly sensitive.

That being said I think there is a much more dangerous and insidious form of political correctness infecting our culture today, ane most people don’t recognize it as political correctness, but that is exactly what it is.

Every time Donald Trump says “fake news”, or calls the media the “enemy of the people”, that is him trying to impose political correctness on the culture. One of the talking heads on fox the other day actually said that if the media does not want to be called the enemy of the people they should report the news the way Trump wants them too. That is political correctness at its most vile and dangerous. Compared to this the issue of Halloween costumes is absolutely trivial. This is dangerous.

And there are large segments of the population that simply refuse to accept facts unless they match what the President is telling them, and he lies. This is political correctness too. And we need to start calling it out. Political correctness is not only a problem on the left. It is a much much more serious and dangerous problem on the right.

Excellent point. I think you should start a thread on that.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I moved this response which blossomed into a whole topic to its own thread

There seem to be a lot of popular ideas out there that I think are born of xenophobes who are looking for ways to fight off the inevitability of the American Melting Pot really going to work...

Political correctness is one of them. It is a term which is motivated, perhaps, to counter a growing pressure that is seen especially in consumer-manufacturer relationships that are responding/enabling multi-cultural representation in their products and in their messaging. Those on the xenophobic side see these sorts of things as a threat to their comfort zone and label such dialog and the corrective measures asked for and granted, even the loss of jobs, etc... Political correctness is a non-term indicating the same old conflict across political perspective and how it excites conflict and emotion. New standards are coming and conservatives are partially resenting those new standards. Social media is increasing the visibility and response times for such standard implementations.

White nationalism or pride...another cover idea so that people can express their whiteness in terms that minorities have done in a politically active way to counter their xenophobic fears of diminishing dominance. White Europeans to a large extent left Europe because of national and political conflicts and coming to America was to attain a freedom from that. Of course, over the generations, that context has been forgotten. Some specific European communities have maintained cultural ties and celebrations from their past (I think of the various Scandinavian festivals that occur in towns in my state). These were never about politics, just about celebrating their national and cultural heritage. If white people have a culture to distinguish from others in America it is in their European national roots not in their American ones. Europeans in America have so intermixed as to have formed the basis for a new national identity but as the dominant identity there is no cause for political conflict...until now where the perception is that domination in numbers is about to end (vs all minorities). So it is entirely disingenuous for whites to form up in defensive political identity due to any sort of perceived persecution...anyone who graduated high school knows enough history to see that as a total joke.

Border security and voter fraud are two additional political complaints with no basis outside of xenophobia.

Now what all these things have in common is that they are clever mal-appropriations of ideas that are in themselves based on something valid but are mere copies of ideas that originally grew out of a lot of suffering and pain experienced in a more than just personal way by certain groups of people. White people, who never had to fight for the right to vote, to sit where they like in a business establishment, to not get attacked by people in pointy-headed ghost costumes, to being literally slaves, to being removed from their rightful homes and placed in internment camps, etc...are now, somehow still just as much a victimized group.

The great irony, of course, is that it was their ancestors who were the ones who perpetrated all of these acts. I guess many xenophobic white people are becoming literally afraid of their own shadow.

The other great irony is that all of these "others" the xenophobes are so concerned about are all here either because they were forced to be or they were inspired to be just as our own white European ancestors were.

Without a knowledge of history, people are doomed to repeat history. Political correctness is a natural outgrowth of the principles laid out in the Constitution of the United States since day one...now we are just enacting those same principles on a global scale...the American dream is not White! It is human.
 
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