Black Mass in Oklahoma Today.

[Viker]

The Black Mass is so 1990's. I'd be much more impressed if they'd perform my old sect's Sacrificum ( ceremonial human sacrifice ) instead.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, it's over.

Updates: Oklahoma City 'black mass,' protests | News OK
Black Mass comes to the Oklahoma City Civic Center
Catholics crusade to protest

 

[Viker]

Well, it's over.

Updates: Oklahoma City 'black mass,' protests | News OK
Black Mass comes to the Oklahoma City Civic Center
Catholics crusade to protest

Aw man. No bloodshed or chaos? Lame.

 

[s2a]

Amid a flurry of controversy and confusion, the Oklahoma Civic Center Music Hall in Oklahoma City will be become the setting for a public Black Mass this Sunday, Sept. 21. The event, which is being billed as “enlightening and educational,” is reportedly now sold out. The purpose of the public staging, as written in the Civic Center’s blurb, is to bring a feared ritual “into the light.”

Just as problems arose when a Harvard University Extension club attempted to sponsor a Black Mass, the Oklahoma event has inspired local protests that began immediately after the Civic Center listed the Black Mass on its schedule. However, in this story, the ensuing controversy took a few unexpected twists and turns that go well-beyond typical outrage from the city’s Catholic community.
- See more at: The Oklahoma Black Mass: Controversy, Confusion and Religious Freedom | The Wild Hunt

Apparently there's going to be a big protest:

An organizer says he expects up to 600 people from as far away as Pennsylvania to attend a prayer rally expressing opposition to the “black mass” at downtown’s Civic Center Music Hall.

A Satanist plans the event Sunday evening in CitySpace, a small theater in the Civic Center basement that holds fewer than 100 people. The event has been sold out for a couple of weeks.

Oklahoma City Archbishop Paul Coakley has directed Catholics to conduct a “campaign of prayer” in response to the black mass. The city declined his request that officials ban the event.

Brian McCall received a permit from the city for a procession through downtown and prayer rally outside the Civic Center on Sunday afternoon, preceding the black mass.
The event is being led by the Society of St. Pius X in America.

The organization says on its website that its U.S. District Superior, the Rev. Jurgen Wegner, has issued a “call to reparation” in response to the black mass.

Plans are for a traditional Latin Mass at the downtown Sheraton Hotel at 11 a.m. Sunday, followed by a procession through downtown to the Civic Center, McCall said.
An outdoor prayer rally is planned between 1 and 2 p.m. Participants then plan to return to the Sheraton, he said.

McCall said the organization had received RSVPs from Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois and Pennsylvania.

Another group has a permit for a prayer rally between 5 and 7 p.m. outside the Civic Center.

In addition, a man from Longdale, in northwestern Oklahoma, has a permit to pass out Christian CDs and literature on Sunday evening at the Civic Center.
The black mass is to begin at 7 p.m. Sunday.

Coakley plans to lead a church service and procession beginning at 3 p.m. Sunday at Saint Francis of Assisi Catholic Church, 1901 NW 18 St.
Organizer expects more than 600 to rally against Oklahoma City 'black mass' | News OK

My sympathies are with the Satanists.

Beetlejuice!

Beetlejuice!

Beetlejuice!

Oh, were you attempting some serious commentary?

Beelzebub, where are you when called upon?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Aw man. No bloodshed or chaos? Lame.

Yeah, the whole affair was pretty boring.

 

[Amechania]

People are just so jaded these days. How can a public Black Mass produce not a single lynching? This is one area where South Asian Muslims are clearly out in front of the "Christian" West.

 

[Glaurung]

People are just so jaded these days. How can a public Black Mass produce not a single lynching? This is one area where South Asian Muslims are clearly out in front of the "Christian" West.

I guess I'm just too apathetic to bother.


Those with a hard-on to mock Christianity with childish "public black-masses" are just trolls. And trolls are only effective when fed.

 

[Amechania]

I'm just too apathetic to bother.

Those with a hard-on to mock Christianity with childish "public black-masses" are just trolls. And trolls are only effective when fed.

Actually I'd bet that someone spiritually curious both unfamiliar with Catholic ritual might become intrigued by witnessing a mocking version. Even trolls can educate and inspire those who have not yet surrendered to apathy.

 

[Glaurung]

Actually I'd bet that someone spiritually curious both unfamiliar with Catholic ritual might become intrigued by witnessing a mocking version. Even trolls can educate and inspire those who have not yet surrendered to apathy.

I'm apathetic in the sense that I have no reason to care or get offended at the games of self-proclaimed "Satanists" in America. People are free to do as they wish, even if it's distasteful. Of course, if they directly blaspheme by defiling a consecrated host, then that would be borderline unforgivable so long as they persist. (Even though there's nothing I could do to stop them)

So don't misunderstand me, just because I won't take their bait, doesn't mean I approve.

Anyway, I doubt anyone who wasn't already in their own choir would really be attending. Because why would you bother unless you already had an axe to grind?

 

[thau]

The problem with religion is that there is no way to distinguish between sincere beliefs and using the system.
Religionists expect to be exempt from morality when their beliefs are immoral, but they don't extend reciprocal laxity to other people.
Tom

I suppose if you put all religions together and you put all Christian denominations together and all Christians together into that term you call "religionists," then you are bound to find those who consider themselves "exempt from morality" and its consequences, and in addition, have no mercy upon those outside their belief system.

But when you consider the value of such a statement in its real context, to me it is totally inane.

 

[thau]

Eh, Praise Thomas Jefferson that american religious groups have been reminded every day for 240 years that americans so not accept religious fervor as a justification for violence. Do you really think if someone held a black mass in salem 300 years ago there would have been more tolerance from christians than muslims today may exhibit?

The only difference between muslim and christian is 250 years of beating it into their heads that religious fervor is an unacceptable justification for violence!

I find your comment biased or thoughtless.

Simply put, you have no idea how greatly mankind has benefited from the cares and efforts of Christianity. Your implications that it is a violent force are pitiful. As is this distinction that what happened 300 years ago should be held to the same moral and civil standards of today. No doubt those villagers in Salem represented all that was taking place in Christianity globally so that is enough evidence for you.

 

[1137]

I think The Satanic Temple is the best thing to happen to Satanism. In the coming years we'll see the gap in who's actually utilizing Satanism and who was simply being a "rebel". This group is actually one of the few respectable ones I've seen, they're going about it all right. I thought they were trolls at first but they're really playing the adversary and using the system to do so. It's beautiful.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I find your comment biased or thoughtless.

Simply put, you have no idea how greatly mankind has benefited from the cares and efforts of Christianity. Your implications that it is a violent force are pitiful. As is this distinction that what happened 300 years ago should be held to the same moral and civil standards of today. No doubt those villagers in Salem represented all that was taking place in Christianity globally so that is enough evidence for you.

Obviously I'm mistaken. The inquistion, the church's policy murder of countless people of different opinions was huge benefit to mankind. The crusades, a thoughtless, pig-headed, self-rightous war in the name of the pope filled the pockets of the nobility all across europe. What a boon that was. The rape, murder, and burning alive of millions of native americans in the name of saving their souls and taking their gold was a god-send for those butchered heathens, who are now obvioulsy in heaven becuase of the church.

You sound as if I used salme to represent all that took place in christianity globally, when I gave a single, specific example. I apologize for failing to mention Cotton Mather who called down the graces of god crapping on mankind from the divine bowels. Did I forget to mention poor galileo and countless other 'heretics' and the overall suppression of free-thought, liberty, democracy, and tolerance for more than 1000 years.

Oh, yes these are all old things ... except those child-molestors, what about Mel Gibson and countless other jew hating christians.

Perhaps you could be so kind as to point out a single strand of evidence to your hillarious claim "how greatly mankind has benefited from the cares and efforts of Christianity?"

Please? Oh, nevermind, let me ask a gay person.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Obviously I'm mistaken. The inquistion, the church's policy murder of countless people of different opinions was huge benefit to mankind. The crusades, a thoughtless, pig-headed, self-rightous war in the name of the pope filled the pockets of the nobility all across europe. What a boon that was. The rape, murder, and burning alive of millions of native americans in the name of saving their souls and taking their gold was a god-send for those butchered heathens, who are now obvioulsy in heaven becuase of the church.

You sound as if I used salme to represent all that took place in christianity globally, when I gave a single, specific example. I apologize for failing to mention Cotton Mather who called down the graces of god crapping on mankind from the divine bowels. Did I forget to mention poor galileo and countless other 'heretics' and the overall suppression of free-thought, liberty, democracy, and tolerance for more than 1000 years.

Oh, yes these are all old things ... except those child-molestors, what about Mel Gibson and countless other jew hating christians.

Perhaps you could be so kind as to point out a single strand of evidence to your hillarious claim "how greatly mankind has benefited from the cares and efforts of Christianity?"

Please? Oh, nevermind, let me ask a gay person.

Not to mention the persecution and destruction of indigenous cultures all over the globe. I know you mentioned the Native peoples of the Americas, which was surely the greatest genocide in human history, but it started with the Greco-Roman peoples and then spread to Northern and Eastern Europe. Christianity destroyed Classical Civilization first. That's unforgivable.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Not to mention the persecution and destruction of indigenous cultures all over the globe. I know you mentioned the Native peoples of the Americas, which was surely the greatest genocide in human history, but it started with the Greco-Roman peoples and then spread to Northern and Eastern Europe. Christianity destroyed Classical Civilization first. That's unforgivable.

I agree and did not mean to leave out a few atroscities, but how could one possibly catalouge the atroscities committed in the name of jesus? This is a debat forum and thau threw verbal attacks at me and made a claim with zero support for his postion. Nevermind that he evidently has no appreciation for Thomas Jefferson.

I invite you thau to provide a shred of evidence for the great benefit to mankind that the christian religon has been, rather than call me thoughtless.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree and did not mean to leave out a few atroscities, but how could one possibly catalouge the atroscities committed in the name of jesus? This is a debat forum and thau threw verbal attacks at me and made a claim with zero support for his postion. Nevermind that he evidently has no appreciation for Thomas Jefferson.

I invite you thau to provide a shred of evidence for the great benefit to mankind that the christian religon has been, rather than call me thoughtless.

Of course. Just throwing that out there. We'd have to write whole tomes to catalog the crimes of Christianity. In fact, one person did take up such a task and it ended up being 10 volumes long and taking decades to finish:
Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those books have yet to be translated into English and that itself should be a crime!

 

[thau]

Obviously I'm mistaken. The inquistion, the church's policy murder of countless people of different opinions was huge benefit to mankind. The crusades, a thoughtless, pig-headed, self-rightous war in the name of the pope filled the pockets of the nobility all across europe. What a boon that was. The rape, murder, and burning alive of millions of native americans in the name of saving their souls and taking their gold was a god-send for those butchered heathens, who are now obvioulsy in heaven becuase of the church.

You sound as if I used salme to represent all that took place in christianity globally, when I gave a single, specific example. I apologize for failing to mention Cotton Mather who called down the graces of god crapping on mankind from the divine bowels. Did I forget to mention poor galileo and countless other 'heretics' and the overall suppression of free-thought, liberty, democracy, and tolerance for more than 1000 years.

Oh, yes these are all old things ... except those child-molestors, what about Mel Gibson and countless other jew hating christians.

Perhaps you could be so kind as to point out a single strand of evidence to your hillarious claim "how greatly mankind has benefited from the cares and efforts of Christianity?"

Please? Oh, nevermind, let me ask a gay person.

As St Thomas More once said – “‘Tis a shorter thing and sooner done to write heresies than to answer them.” I challenge your methods and your demagoguery. The Inquisition is nowhere near the truth the way antagonistic protestants and unbelievers wrote its history. Many historians since have corrected the record and the insinuations and the exaggerations. The Inquisition was far more honest and fair than nearly all the brutal measures exacted by monarchies and fiefdoms on their subjects and enemies.

The Crusades, could you make it sound any more cruel? The mission was honorable and justified. What many of the soldiers did or took advantage of was hard to control from Rome, nor was it their intention, such as the treatment of some Jews. But the Moslems had it coming, nodoubt. Not up to expounding on it presently but you really need to come to terms with the fact 11th century morals and standards were not as developed or understood as 21st century judgments.

Same goes for the conquests of the Americas. You just throw it all out there and make it sound far more widespread and horrible and without provocation --- of course all done by “Christian” soldiers and generals at the behest of Rome. Not. Some missionaries were misguided, granted, but the majority were there to assist the natives and took great risks in witnessing and introducing things for their benefit. Once again, I have no time to properly refute your gross claims but be sure to put all the misdeeds and spoils of the Spanish invaders on the Church's wishes and not the monarchs.

You must feel so grateful for Galileo and couple of other scientists. It tells the whole story doesn’t it?... i.e. the Catholic Church was out to suppress science because of some fear. Of course, you are wrong since the Catholic Church advanced science and learning more than any other institution of all those centuries. But since you found that silver bullet we erred on, we are a prize enemyof your secular humanist ideology and utopia. Whatever.

Nor would it matter to you if there were a thousand child abusers or a million. It’s all the same. The Church has paid a heavy and just price for its sins within, the cover-ups, etc. Sincere apologies, admissions and amends have been made. Still waiting for one other institution or church or group to come forward and admit their own sexual crimes. The greater scandals really occurred in the sixties, seventies and eighties. Is it coincidental that the seminaries of those days grew very lax and let in untold numbers of homosexual priests who were the main impetus behind all the abuses? Is it coincidental that the vast, vast majority of cases involved homosexual priests and adolescent boys? Our sin, yes, but keep this in mind. The devil seeks to strike the shepherd so the sheep are scattered. He is not all that interested in spending too much of his efforts on a hedonistic, lustful culture outside the Church’s influence who do as they please without nary a care of consequence? More than one pope feared the infiltration of evil one even into the walls of the Vatican. Yes, the Church is mortally wounded, but its teachings remain pure, holy and the truth.

I won’t bother going on, but just to say that if you think the Church’s influence on society has been evil and all the charity, caring for the sick, abandoned, lonely and dying amongst their neighbors and in foreign lands is of no value, then maybe you have your own serious issues to address.

 

[Glaurung]

I won’t bother going on, but just to say that if you think the Church’s influence on society has been evil and all the charity, caring for the sick, abandoned, lonely and dying amongst their neighbors and in foreign lands is of no value, then maybe you have your own serious issues to address.

It's quite fashionable amongst certain groups, to take historical events and divorce them from any and all historical context beyond that of their own their ideological narrative, in order to berate Christians with their "historical sins". It's neither fair or very honest, but that's hardly important to them.

Of course Christians have done, and still do horrible things, but that's because humans will inevitably do horrible things. It's hardly unique to Christians or Abrahamic faith.

 

[thau]

my post is getting mistakenly placed in the wrong thread ??????????????