psychoslice
Veteran Member
I don't see the big deal, if one can't laugh at themselves there is something wrong with them, humour is healthy, and a sign of intelligence.
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Blunder of the year?
- Thread starter GoodbyeDave
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JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
FYI I don't "play" anything and I am not a "mate". I actually have better things to do. I left off "playing" when I was a child.
Surely we have passed the age of barbarity? The bloodlust remains even when the killing is not real. Desensitisation means we no longer respond to violence and bloodshed like we should. Our kids are fed on a steady diet of violence in everything from cartoons to video games....and we wonder why there is so much violence in the schools? Violence in the home and on the streets?
Add alcohol and there is nothing to put a lid on any of it. Surely you see the correlation?
Why is violence so attractive in entertainment but so horrifying when it happens in real life? Got any clues on that one? If you wouldn't kill or main people in real life, why do it so graphically in a game? It's pretty sick IMO.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Now your being cheeky.They should have put pork products on sale for the duration of Ramadan.
You forget that I'm Australian, mate is just something we say to everyone. It can carry with it a connotation of respect, depending on the person. Why does everyone always respond with hostility when we aussies say this to people? I'm genuinely curious? Do people get upset at Indian people if they accidentally call them aunty or uncle? Or upset with Brits if they call them love?
Oh, come now do you only watch R movies now that you're an adult? I watch Disney, Pixar and (some) Dreamworks movies and I'm not embarrassed to admit it. I also don't know why people get defensive and obsessed with being seen as doing only adult things. Do you not return to a favorite book or TV show/movie from your youth so you can interpret it on a deeper level? Or just to enjoy that nice warm hug of nostalgia every once in a while?
And many games are most certainly NOT for children. That's why they are rated M15 or R18 (or whatever the American equivalent is. M? R?)
Not really. Violence has always been a constant in our species. I mean there has always been violence everywhere far before cartoons and video games were even thought of. Why was that? Because????????Books??? Cave Paintings???????
Actually, we currently live in the most safe times of all of human history. So.....we're actually doing much better than our ancestors.
And need I point out the horrifically violent acts one can easily find if one peruses the Bible?
Well when we watch a movie, read a book, watch a play, watch a TV Show or play an interactive game, we are fully aware that the violence is entirely fictional. It's essentially a safe environment. In a game, it's kind of like a punching bag, with pixels. You can be as violent as you want, relieve your stress (perhaps you had a ****ty customer hurt you that day) and you can be safe in the knowledge that no one is actually hurt in this act.
When you see it on the news (which may or may not be desensitizing Ahem) you know that it is real. That means sentient often innocent people, with lives, with dreams, with hopes, with families are being hurt or killed. That upsets us, because we have empathy.
All forms of entertainment tell a story, with likable and unlikable characters, presents ideas about morality and seeks to give us some sort of emotion. Comedy wants us to laugh, drama wants us to be sad and many other stories often want both. Often the protagonist must "save the world" or must climb from nothing and prove the naysayers wrong.
We like the hero's journey, because we like the idea of everything happening for a reason and we like to root for a hero. We like an underdog story, because we like to have hope. We like a morally grey character because it presents us with complexity and a chance for a deeper interpretation than just a "good guy" or a "bad guy." In the case of games, we like that we can choose how the story plays out because it gives us control and allows us to see the consequences of our own choices. How is that sick, exactly?
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JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
I'm an Aussie too mate...I'm just not a bloke. A friend can call me mate, but it feels wrong from someone I don't know.
My definition of "adult things" might be a little different to what young people think they are. If something is "adult" today it doesn't mean it's for older or wiser people.....it just means that it isn't suitable for kids. To my way of thinking, if it isn't suitable for kids, it isn't suitable for adults either.
I don't watch R rated movies. I don't even like M rated movies.....I actually prefer G rated stuff.....especially documentaries.
Music is my nostalgia trip. I love to spend an evening watching old music clips on YouTube.
Well, I would surely hope so.
Again, I hope we have progressed since those times. Actually, Jesus never advocated violence. Christians are supposed to be non-violent and they are also to shun immorality.
Why no empathy for the person even in a game? Why can we perpetrate acts of extreme violence on a fictitious person?
What is that saying about our character?
I have no problem with entertainment per se...I like a good story line as much as anyone.....it's just the extremely violent or the sexually explicit stuff I have a problem with.....I don't understand the need for it. I can't see how it brings out the best in anyone I guess.
Fair enough. I'm a sheila myself, mate just rolls of my tongue without thought, to be honest.
I blame my dad's friends and their influence.
Sorry, I assumed you were American and I was trying to adjust to their weird rating system. I'm a fan of stories just in general, so I tend to have "eclectic" tastes. Just curious, if it's not suitable for kids, why wouldn't it be suitable for adults? I mean, Lord of the Rings is fairly clean, but it's rated M. I saw the movies in the cinema when I was like 10 and there were old people, young people and all sorts of other ages.
Ahh good ol' Youtube! I have a feeling your definition of "old" might conflict with my youthful flippant definition.
Well we no longer live in the days of warlords raping and pillaging villages, at least not in the Western world. I'd call that progress. Right?
Sure. But I mean, His death wasn't exactly family friendly. And for some reason whenever we went over it during RE it was always very graphically depicted. Like very graphically depicted. Maybe not as graphic as Mel Gibson's movie, but still not soft by any stretch of the imagination. *shudders*
And there's still a hell of a lot of violence. I mean plagues, tent pegs through the head, babies dashed on rocks. That's just from memory. If we're going by depiction only, which is what you're indicating by your comments against video games, then the Bible is just as guilty.
Because they're not real? NPCs or "non playable characters" are not even characters most of the time. They are literally empty vessels. Empathy only works if it's a tangible human. NPCs are not tangible humans, because most of the time they just come back to life later as if nothing has happened. Hell in the GTA games when you kill someone the ambulance comes running and literally resurrects them. There's not a lot of consequence of death in video games. Without consequence, there's no emotional attachment. You might as well cry a river every time a person in a soap opera "dies." They'll just pop back up again later anyway, so why bother?
It says that we have pent up emotions released as "violent" acts. Nothing more nothing less. We are a violent species, and we have always had a fictitious outlet for our violence. Today it's video games, before that it was TV, Movies, Songs, paintings, sculptures and books. Why is it that no one ever harps on Dostoevsky for perpetrating violence in Crime and Punishment? Why does Shakespeare get a pass for having plays where basically the entire cast dies? Why does no one care that kids are being corrupted when George Orwell kill off Winston? (ooops, spoiler!!) I mean these guys aren't just entertainment, they are in the hallowed halls of higher intellectual achievement. They are deeply studied and deeply revered by the literary elite to this day.
Violence has always been an integral part of our entertainment. And always will be. Violence equals tension, tension equals excitement, excitement equals enjoyment/investment, enjoyment/investment equals success. A story without this is dull, boring, without emotional investment and won't do that well. It's that simple, really. Hell even comedy involves violence and always has. God even the pansy as all hell Care Bears had violence, that radioactive "care bear stare" is not caring, it's pure sheer violent force covered up by fluffiness.
Well do you fear English teachers? They not only study literature, they study probably the most bawdy of all literature. Classical literature. With rape, murder, sex slaves, mutilation and fart jokes galore. How are English teachers affected by this in depth study of the depravity that is yesteryear's entertainment? I'd say it brings out the best in them.
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rosends
Well-Known Member
https://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/wellwhoops.jpgThey should have put pork products on sale for the duration of Ramadan.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I'm pretty sure there's a rule on RF that you can only post in English...
Well bugger me, mate. I'm done like a dog's dinner then. Oh well, I guess I'll have to stick to goon and talk with the bogans instead.
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Fake bacon flavor on reconstituted flakes of potato mash.....no, not for me.
Here be some salty snacks that'll really satisfy....
As a kid back in the 50s & 60s, I ate a whole lotta pork rinds.
They even included a packet of Louisiana pepper sauce.
Now that's gooooood eat'n!
Perhaps some day someone will figure out how to duplicate these out of tofu, eh?
That is what "not real" implies, yes.
How far do we take this? Video games are full of gory bloodshed and violence of all descriptions. Is it OK to kill and maim people for entertainment as long as they are not real? ? ?
You might perhaps argue that they have dangers and disadvantages of their own (that may well be), but sure, killing animated pixels is definitely far more acceptable than real-life bloodshed and violence. Are you truly in doubt on this matter?
If I may, you might want to learn about a couple of games that use violence for good effect and a very much pacifist message.
This War Of Mine
http://valianthearts.ubi.com/game/
Omg I have to get my hands on such deliciousness!!!Fake bacon flavor on reconstituted flakes of potato mash.....no, not for me.
Here be some salty snacks that'll really satisfy....
As a kid back in the 50s & 60s, I ate a whole lotta pork rinds.
They even included a packet of Louisiana pepper sauce.
Now that's gooooood eat'n!
Perhaps some day someone will figure out how to duplicate these out of tofu, eh?
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
Fair enough. I'm a sheila myself, mate just rolls of my tongue without thought, to be honest.
I blame my dad's friends and their influence.
I actually cringe at the ugly Australians and their image portrayed in movies like The Castle......*shudders*
What people in general have come to accept as "normal" in the realm of entertainment, I would balk at. The level of violence and the graphic depiction of it make an assault on the imaginations of some of the more sensitive children.
When a child reads a book, the image created in their minds is limited to what their imaginings conjure up.....it's not the same as a depiction that may go way beyond a child's imagination and actually damage their psyche and leave them frightened.
Any of those movies that promote the supernatural in any way, especially to children, would not have my support. If I am claiming to be a Christain, I could not give support to entertainment that promotes immorality, violence or spiritistic practices. Others are free to make up their own minds...but that is what is dictated by my conscience.
I'm talking 60- 80's music.
Well I sometimes wonder, if we still need to repeat the behavior in cyberspace.
They were violent times and the Roman Empire was built on its superior military power....merciless and saturated in human blood. The fact that their entertainment in the arena was carried out with real life victims and we have moved on from that is a good thing but with the beheadings we have seen in the news, it appears that the barbarians are still alive in this world. So for them, there is no progress.
We have to understand the circumstances and sensibilities of people living at those times. In order to have a God who was recognised as the most powerful one, he had to be able to whoop the false gods out of the arena. The ten plagues were each designed to humiliate one of the gods of Egypt. Pharaoh could have stopped them at any time but continued to invite the next plague.
Israel was never used by God to perpetrate violence on others for the sake of it. The land was promised to Israel long before the Canaanites took up residence, so when it was time to take possession of the promised land, the depraved inhabitants had to be evicted by force. There are reasons for everything.
I see it as eroding human sensibilities personally. I believe it desensitises people even if they don't believe it.
I don't revere any human on any level because of their academic achievements. So academic credentials really dont mean a great deal to me. I more admire the battlers who overcome the big boys and triumph in the end by playing them at their own game.....and winning!!
Nowhere is that more evident than in reality TV shows. Not one of them deviates from the formula you just mentioned.
You can't even have a cooking or home renovation show without the conflict and the drama!
Yes the degrees of subtlety are interesting. Coyote always plotted the most heinous traps for the poor roadrunner, but we enjoyed them all backfiring on him, didn't we? Our sense of justice was satisfied. When we think about it...what movies end with the bad guys winning? Who would watch them? Only real life is like that. That is why we need movies so that the good guys can win.
Sometimes the intellect of the person taking in the events being read or seen on the screen, can modify their effect on the adult individual. But extreme acts of violence dished up in all its gory detail is damaging to the sensibilities of children. I cannot see how that is ever not the case.
Geez, don't watch anything by Paul French then!
More sensitive children have had to live through worse. Like the old timey British/Australian Education System. Now THAT was an assault on the poor sensitive children. (Both figuratively and literally.)
Entertainment reflects reality, we are a violent species, thus entertainment is violent. I don't know why people act like graphic violence is anything new. It's always been like that. Even the Golden Age of Comic books left little to the imagination.
I'm talking 60- 80's music.
I actually love 80s music! So much 80s awesomeness.
And I'm a 90s kid so I might be a tad traitorous to my generation. Don't know much about the 60s except that the Beatles were awesome.Books have always been excessively descriptive. They're books, that's their job!
What depictions are you talking about specifically?
You sound like you're describing the Saw franchise, which is clearly labelled M-R which tells parents they shouldn't let their kids watch it in the first place. But I watch today's children's media with my baby nephew. It's nothing worse than what you grew up watching, really. Nothing graphic about it. So again, what depictions are you taking issue with in regards to children? Gore and splatter? I agree, kids shouldn't watch that until they can handle it. But that's often found in adult entertainment, not children's or family friendly entertainment. Unless you count the 80s Indiana Jones, which if it hasn't might need a new rating. Ehh. Horror? Again, kids shouldn't be watching that until they're ready. But horror movies are never rated below an M so why is this a concern for kids? Disney? Pfft, there's nothing graphic about Disney. Family friendly movies and children's movies exist for kids to specifically watch. Graphically depicted violence and gore is never found in anything below an M15 entity (except for some religious depictions.) So why would this affect children unless they have lazy or ineffectual parents?
Isn't God supernatural?
I'd rather have someone do that in cyberspace than have it happen to my family in real life. And those are just fantasies. It's not real.Well I sometimes wonder, if we still need to repeat the behavior in cyberspace.
Did you know that in order to establish stability the Roman Empire actually encouraged peace? Their games were kind of similar to the Hunger Games, really. It was just to show off their might and intimidate outsiders. But they were more complex than just barbaric thugs with a lot of fire power.They were violent times and the Roman Empire was built on its superior military power....merciless and saturated in human blood. The fact that their entertainment in the arena was carried out with real life victims and we have moved on from that is a good thing but with the beheadings we have seen in the news, it appears that the barbarians are still alive in this world. So for them, there is no progress.
And I agree in some places awful things happen. That is awful. But in the West we have definitely moved on.
But understanding the circumstances in a movie where violence happens is inconsequential? You can't have it both ways. Either depicting violence is bad or one has to utilize the analysis techniques taught in school to figure out why it's happening. This goes for more than just the Bible. The violent often antisemitic tactics Big Brother uses in 1984 isn't just Orwell relishing in violence. It's Orwell saying that the Nazi tactics (on which this is roughly based) is bad and dehumanizing. Don't pretend that the Bible is the only book in existence that has a deeper subtext and that one has to read it on a deeper level. English Study in every level of schooling is built upon the fact that one cannot hope to understand stories if one only notices the surface.
And you're right. That's why we have this thing called ratings, in EVERY medium. Some are more loosely followed than others. We tell children that until they are 15 they shouldn't be watching M15 movies and TV shows, because it's deemed too much for them. Once you're an adult or at least 15 you know how to moderate yourself. You know what you're able to handle and what you're not. I'm desensitized to some extent. But because I'm an adult I know why this is and it allows me not to balk at my favorite TV shows, movies, games, books and plays.
Ahh so you don't value education? Don't value intelligence? I must ask, do you value morons? If you think I'm being rude or confrontational, I only ask because your comment indicates that you're unaware that many academic achievements were "battlers overcoming the big boys and triumphing in the end by playing them at their own game and winning."
Nowhere is that more evident than in reality TV shows. Not one of them deviates from the formula you just mentioned.
You can't even have a cooking or home renovation show without the conflict and the drama!
Ehh I'll take your word for it. Don't care for Reality TV shows personally. But yeah, every story has a formula or "cliches" because they've proven themselves to be successful. These are building blocks, really. So the end product really depends on the builder. Some are schlock others are masterpieces.
What movies are there where the bad guy wins? Off the top of my head (spoilers! duh lol) The Usual Suspects, Se7en, the Godfather, One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest, No Country for Old Men, Saw the entire (multi million dollar making) franchise, Silence of the Lambs. Those are some pretty popular movies...........And there's probably a lot more where the villain wins. I'm sure Google can help you if you're curious.
If you want escapist media, then there are other movies you can watch where good (or at least an anti hero) triumphs over evil. And there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is though, movies are stories and stories reflect humanity and real life. Some people like to be even more challenged and that challenge is met when movies depict real life. Because life isn't neat, it's not a 3 act Hollywood structure, it's messy and complicated and ****ed up. Being confronted by that in the media forces you to examine what the media is saying, but in a much safer environment. Again, this is why we have English class.
Oh also Wile E Coyote is awesome and that Roadrunner is such a dick. I hope one day that Wile E Coyote does catch and eat the Roadrunner. I mean the poor guy is just trying to survive. It's not his fault God made him a meat eater.
Who the hell is showing children extreme acts of graphic violence? Tarantino? His movies are clearly marked M15 and R18 it's not his fault parents are sometimes morons. Just because adult media has graphic depictions of violence doesn't mean people are forcing this on children. We have the rating system for a bloody reason!
The rest of the world aren't responsible for what children consume. It's universally agreed upon that that responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of their parents (or relevant legal guardian.)
I get it, I mean we want to protect kids. I'd dive in front of a bus for my baby nephew without a second thought.
But I'm not going to expect the entertainment I enjoy which is clearly targeted at adults to tone things down just for him. It's not their job to supervise him. When I'm babysitting him, that's my job. His parents, his grandparents, his aunts and uncles (and myself on occasion) are the only adults who are responsible for his well being. Not the media, not the movie makers, not authors, not directors, not screenwriters, not playwrights. His family.
I may tell him, no True Blood (guilty pleasure lol) isn't your thing. Too much kissing and other stupid adult things. Or no, Assassin's Creed is a pretty hard game and it's better to wait a little bit until you're older. That way you can beat the game. Or, no Dante's Inferno is a boring grown up book. Too many words and not enough cool pictures. He gets the message and prefers to watch my Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks/Aardman collection instead or read Dr Sues or Beatrix Potter or whatever the kids are reading these days.
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This just shows how far they will go to act like they are inclusive, while at the same being totally ignorant of who they want to "impress".
This is actually a bigger exposure to their own idiotic and ill-based political correctness than actually understanding the world as it is. I find it insulting, actually, and lame and stupid. I will never buy their product. It is like the idiot e-store that won't sell the confederate flag T-shirt, but will sell a Che Guevara shirt with a murderous commie on it or sell an ISIS flag. Again, their own ignorant PC crap that exposes them as idiots. I then drop them from my shop stop or product list. Usually, they only have crap anyway. I hate idiotic PC crap. I am cancelling my Macy's card for these same reasons.
This is actually a bigger exposure to their own idiotic and ill-based political correctness than actually understanding the world as it is. I find it insulting, actually, and lame and stupid. I will never buy their product. It is like the idiot e-store that won't sell the confederate flag T-shirt, but will sell a Che Guevara shirt with a murderous commie on it or sell an ISIS flag. Again, their own ignorant PC crap that exposes them as idiots. I then drop them from my shop stop or product list. Usually, they only have crap anyway. I hate idiotic PC crap. I am cancelling my Macy's card for these same reasons.
Actually, I may have to rethink this one, it may not be the fault of the company Pringles and more the fault of the employees at that market, it may have even been intentional by some employee at that market to insult Muslims.
Think about it. The actial cardboard sign as part of the display stand makes no mention of bacon. Yes the reddish color of the display does match the chip tubes that have bacon flavor, but the original Pringles chip tube which contains no bacon is also the same red color.
So I now suspect this was not the idea of Pringles, but some market employee who probably, and purposely, took down the original chip tubes which have no bacun and placed the bacon flavored one's in the display instead to insult Muslims. I suspect this, I have no proof, but perhaps Pringles had no intention at all and this was some other manipulation.
By the way, Pringles is not really a potato chip. It is made mostly of rice, with some wheat and corn, then just a sprinkle of potato flake. It isn't a potato chip, it is rice powder primarily. And actually the bacon part probably isn't bacon at all but a flavoring made of tumeric and some other spices but I could be wrong. But Pringles simply, normally, flavors things on the rice chip using powders that are herbs and not fats because they cook the rice chips at superhigh tempretures. This process of superhigh temperature is actually creating cancer causing chemicals, not good if you eat a lot of Pringles.
Think about it. The actial cardboard sign as part of the display stand makes no mention of bacon. Yes the reddish color of the display does match the chip tubes that have bacon flavor, but the original Pringles chip tube which contains no bacon is also the same red color.
So I now suspect this was not the idea of Pringles, but some market employee who probably, and purposely, took down the original chip tubes which have no bacun and placed the bacon flavored one's in the display instead to insult Muslims. I suspect this, I have no proof, but perhaps Pringles had no intention at all and this was some other manipulation.
By the way, Pringles is not really a potato chip. It is made mostly of rice, with some wheat and corn, then just a sprinkle of potato flake. It isn't a potato chip, it is rice powder primarily. And actually the bacon part probably isn't bacon at all but a flavoring made of tumeric and some other spices but I could be wrong. But Pringles simply, normally, flavors things on the rice chip using powders that are herbs and not fats because they cook the rice chips at superhigh tempretures. This process of superhigh temperature is actually creating cancer causing chemicals, not good if you eat a lot of Pringles.
rosends
Well-Known Member
According to every list of ingredients I have seen, the first ingredient is dried potatoes, dehydrated potatoes or potato flakes. [Listing ingredients in descending order of predominance by weight means that the ingredient that weighs the most is listed first, and the ingredient that weighs the least is listed last (see illustration for question 3 below).
21 CFR 101.4(a)]
I'll bet you're the life of the party over at the snack table!
Wouldn't it be ironic if the store had a more sophisticated understanding of the prohibition than most of the posters in this thread?
Maybe they first showed the chips to an imam, accurately described them(100% non-animal), and asked his opinion. And the imam shrugged and said, "I wouldn't eat them, but their halal".
Tom
Maybe they first showed the chips to an imam, accurately described them(100% non-animal), and asked his opinion. And the imam shrugged and said, "I wouldn't eat them, but their halal".
Tom