Boris Johnson 'to back EU exit'

[Sultan Of Swing]

It appears as though Boris Johnson will campaign to leave the EU, although he has made no official announcement as of yet.

Senior Conservative MP and London mayor Boris Johnson will announce he is to campaign for Britain to leave the EU, the BBC understands.

His decision comes as ministers began campaigning over the UK's EU membership, after PM David Cameron called a referendum for 23 June.

The BBC's Norman Smith said Mr Johnson, previously thought to have been "conflicted", had now made up his mind.

The MP is expected to reveal his decision later on Sunday.

He will give the reasons for his decision in his column for the Telegraph newspaper, which is expected to be published at 22:00 GMT.

The Conservative candidate to be the next mayor of London, Zac Goldsmith, will also vote to leave the EU, his team has confirmed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35625037

Thoughts?

Without Boris, the recognisable faces of the Leave campaign are Nigel Farage and George Galloway, who are admittedly seen by the public as being on the fringes of the political spectrum.

With Boris, this can suddenly propel the eurosceptic position well into the mainstream, and perhaps persuade undecided voters.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

With Boris, this can suddenly propel the eurosceptic position well into the mainstream, and perhaps persuade undecided voters.

Boris has ambitions to become Prime Minister, so his decision seems significant. Maybe he wants to put himself in the lime-light here?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Boris has ambitions to become Prime Minister, so his decision seems significant. Maybe he wants to put himself in the lime-light here?

Lots of people are saying it, could be true. I like how we find it impossible to imagine any of our politicians are genuine and are actually following what they truly believe.

It is rather interesting how immediately after Boris was understood to back the Leave campaign, BBC came out with an article about the 'conspiracy theories' that it's all selfish and career-motivated. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35626143)

That's great and all, but if they are going to be posting 'conspiracy theory' articles that say Boris is doing it out of self-interest, where are the articles that tell us how everything David Cameron does is out of self-interest? I just found it strange how BBC launched straight into this. They did the same to Donald Trump too (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35066940), but I never see this stuff aimed at 'establishment' figures.

I guess the BBC has just accepted its bias and decided it's time to flaunt it.

 

[HonestJoe]

I think it says a lot about the state of democracy in our country that which side Boris Johnson will be standing on is considered much more important in the outcome that any of the actual facts, issues or policies regarding membership of the EU. Few people really understand how the EU works and none of the politicians are going to waste their time trying to explain it (most of them don’t understand it either). This is going to be a campaign of personality, rhetoric and spin which the tabloid trash will lap up and then at the end people will vote with the same intellectual rigor as they would use to decide who should leave the Big Brother house this week.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I think it says a lot about the state of democracy in our country that which side Boris Johnson will be standing on is considered much more important in the outcome that any of the actual facts, issues or policies regarding membership of the EU. Few people really understand how the EU works and none of the politicians are going to waste their time trying to explain it (most of them don’t understand it either). This is going to be a campaign of personality, rhetoric and spin which the tabloid trash will lap up and then at the end people will vote with the same intellectual rigor as they would use to decide who should leave the Big Brother house this week.

Boris has made a reputation for himself among many people as a trustworthy person. I don't think it's purely personality politics, people see the position Boris has taken and will think "Hmm maybe this isn't just stuff reserved for the loonies, maybe there's more to it than I thought" and hopefully will investigate it more.

 

[HonestJoe]

Boris has made a reputation for himself among many people as a trustworthy person. I don't think it's purely personality politics, people see the position Boris has taken and will think "Hmm maybe this isn't just stuff reserved for the loonies, maybe there's more to it than I thought" and hopefully will investigate it more.

His reputation as “trustworthy” is entirely personality politics though. It’s a character he has quite carefully manufactured but is in truth no more or less trustworthy than any of his contemporaries.

As for the consequence, I don’t believe anyone who would be willing to look in to the actual facts will hold such a simplistic position as the out campaign being “reserved for loonies”. I also guarantee that Johnson himself will do absolutely nothing to convince voters to carefully consider all of the complex details, he’ll just spout his usual brand of confusing emotive rhetoric and mockingly shout down anyone who disagrees. It’s worth noting that he’d have done exactly the same if he’d decided to go with the opposite side too.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

His reputation as “trustworthy” is entirely personality politics though. It’s a character he has quite carefully manufactured but is in truth no more or less trustworthy than any of his contemporaries.

As for the consequence, I don’t believe anyone who would be willing to look in to the actual facts will hold such a simplistic position as the out campaign being “reserved for loonies”. I also guarantee that Johnson himself will do absolutely nothing to convince voters to carefully consider all of the complex details, he’ll just spout his usual brand of confusing emotive rhetoric and mockingly shout down anyone who disagrees. It’s worth noting that he’d have done exactly the same if he’d decided to go with the opposite side too.

Well his Telegraph piece was quite well-written and measured on the subject. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-the-change-we-want-vote-to-leave-the-EU.html

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Lots of people are saying it, could be true. I like how we find it impossible to imagine any of our politicians are genuine and are actually following what they truly believe.

It does often appear that personal political ambition is a factor in the positions that prominent politicians decide to adopt. Separating out the wheat from the chaff is quite difficult because of the spin doctors and the political maneuvering that goes on between and within the parties.

 

[HonestJoe]

Well his Telegraph piece was quite well-written and measured on the subject. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-the-change-we-want-vote-to-leave-the-EU.html

In that context it is, though I’d suggest that article is more about convincing Conservatives about his political motivations for his decision as it is convincing the general public on which way to vote. It’s mostly about principles and concepts rather than practicality and is balanced to the point that it wouldn’t take much reworking to present the opposite position. It’s also worth noting that his attempts to get in to any specific details immediately resorted to the “straight banana” file with the reference to prawn-cocktail crisps (which were never going to be and obviously haven’t been banned of course).

A comment piece in the Independent is going to be the very best we’ll get from the campaign though. This kind of thing will be drowned out by tabloid editorials and TV spots. Maybe my opinion of Johnson (the very opposite of “trustworthy”) is colouring my comments and my concern isn’t about him personally and more about the general political and media environment in which this campaign will be run. I have zero confidence that anyone will be making any kind of detailed reasoned argument, not least because I have zero confidence that anyone would take the time to listen. The flashiest adverts, the catchiest headlines and the fewest controversies will win though regardless of the facts.

 

[mindlight]

Boris has made a reputation for himself among many people as a trustworthy person. I don't think it's purely personality politics, people see the position Boris has taken and will think "Hmm maybe this isn't just stuff reserved for the loonies, maybe there's more to it than I thought" and hopefully will investigate it more.

Yes he is an honest chap who usually adds a little common sense and perspective in moments of hysterical overreaction. The guy has a brain, a sense of humour that would serve him well in the modern UK, but at the end of the day is serious about stuff that matters - he would make a good PM regardless of how this works out. But the issues are the issues. He is wrong in suggesting that the Scots are probably no more pro EU than the English for instance and a BREXIT would most likely split the union. He is right to suggest that British democracy has been eroded in recent years and that has a something to do with its relationship with the EU.

 

[mindlight]

In that context it is, though I’d suggest that article is more about convincing Conservatives about his political motivations for his decision as it is convincing the general public on which way to vote. It’s mostly about principles and concepts rather than practicality and is balanced to the point that it wouldn’t take much reworking to present the opposite position. It’s also worth noting that his attempts to get in to any specific details immediately resorted to the “straight banana” file with the reference to prawn-cocktail crisps (which were never going to be and obviously haven’t been banned of course).

A comment piece in the Independent is going to be the very best we’ll get from the campaign though. This kind of thing will be drowned out by tabloid editorials and TV spots. Maybe my opinion of Johnson (the very opposite of “trustworthy”) is colouring my comments and my concern isn’t about him personally and more about the general political and media environment in which this campaign will be run. I have zero confidence that anyone will be making any kind of detailed reasoned argument, not least because I have zero confidence that anyone would take the time to listen. The flashiest adverts, the catchiest headlines and the fewest controversies will win though regardless of the facts.

If that is your view then the money is for staying in the EU cause most big business supports staying. In which case they should have the best ads. We shall see.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Yes he is an honest chap who usually adds a little common sense and perspective in moments of hysterical overreaction. The guy has a brain, a sense of humour that would serve him well in the modern UK, but at the end of the day is serious about stuff that matters - he would make a good PM regardless of how this works out. But the issues are the issues. He is wrong in suggesting that the Scots are probably no more pro EU than the English for instance and a BREXIT would most likely split the union. He is right to suggest that British democracy has been eroded in recent years and that has a something to do with its relationship with the EU.

I wouldn't want Britain to stay in the EU just to stop Scotland from leaving. If Scotland wants to leave and be a part of the EU that's alright. I don't want them to go, but it's up to them and I don't think the rest of Britain needs to sacrifice sovereignty to the EU in order to keep Scotland in the union.

Scotland is not forced to be in the union, we have had a mostly happy friendship these past few centuries. However, if they want to leave that's fine, and they should leave in the comfort we'll always have a candle in the window for them, and if they wish to return they'll be welcomed with open arms.

 

[Altfish]

Scotland is not forced to be in the union, we have had a mostly happy friendship these past few centuries. However, if they want to leave that's fine, and they should leave in the comfort we'll always have a candle in the window for them, and if they wish to return they'll be welcomed with open arms.

Can Manchester and the rest of the north of England go with Scotland?
I'd jump at the chance. To live in a country not run by Eton toffs

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Can Manchester and the rest of the north of England go with Scotland?
I'd jump at the chance. To live in a country not run by Eton toffs

I say, old chap, jolly good idea, spiffing scheme! Trump seems like a decent fellow for a colonial, we'll ask him to build a fence just north of the Watford Gap.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Can Manchester and the rest of the north of England go with Scotland?
I'd jump at the chance. To live in a country not run by Eton toffs

With the new mayor system that's coming England will be divided into districts and city-states more and more, maybe your wish isn't too far off.

 

[Altfish]

With the new mayor system that's coming England will be divided into districts and city-states more and more, maybe your wish isn't too far off.

No, the new mayoral system is just a smokescreen; Manchester will not receive enough funding and the (Labour) Manchester Mayor will take the blame instead of the string pullers in Westminster

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

No, the new mayoral system is just a smokescreen; Manchester will not receive enough funding and the (Labour) Manchester Mayor will take the blame instead of the string pullers in Westminster

You may be right. Gideon keeps talking about creating a "northern powerhouse" but I'll have to wait and see what he actually does.