Brain Dead Indianapolis school officials ban selected religious websites

[LuisDantas]

I would think that liberals would love this. What needs to happen is a ban on all religious websites right? Seperation of Church and State would apply to Wiccans and Satanists as well, no?

I don't know what your conception of liberals are, but most people abhor unneeded censorship, particularly when it is coupled with religious discrimination.

Liberals, to the best of my knowledge, are if anything more emphatic on this matter.

Last but not least, separation of church and state has nothing whatsoever to do with censorship! It boggles the mind to think that someone could confuse censorship with that principle, really.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Hi Father Heathen,

If some of the students wanted some time to pray, would that be allowed in this public school?

The real question is if a group of, say Wiccans, wanted to hold a ritual for Beltaine and were denied, would YOU defend them?

 

[Revoltingest]

Funny. I thought it was supposed to be the left that tried to use public schools to indoctrinate children.

The left is guilty of its own educational sins. Here in The People's Republic of Ann Arbor, an elementary
school just got shot down on their program for separate field trips for black students. An official said....

"The intent of our field trip was not to segregate or exclude students as has been reported, but rather to
address the societal issues, roadblocks and challenges that our African American children will face as they
pursue a successful academic education here in our community.”

Separate but equal has never been defended with such lofty language, eh? Teaching while impaired is not
the exclusive province of religious fundies.

 

[Skwim]

The following is from a 1995 review of law titled "Religion In The Public Schools: A Joint Statement Of Current Law"

Student Prayers

1. Students have the right to pray individually or in groups or to discuss their religious views with their peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, pray before tests, and discuss religion with other willing student listeners. In the classroom students have the right to pray quietly except when required to be actively engaged in school activities (e.g., students may not decide to pray just as a teacher calls on them). In informal settings, such as the cafeteria or in the halls, students may pray either audibly or silently, subject to the same rules of order as apply to other speech in these locations. However, the right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include, for example, the right to have a captive audience listen or to compel other students to participate.


Distribution of Religious Literature

# Students have the right to distribute religious literature to their schoolmates, subject to those reasonable time, place, and manner or other constitutionally- acceptable restrictions imposed on the distribution of all non-school literature. Thus, a school may confine distribution of all literature to a particular table at particular times. It may not single out religious literature for burdensome regulation.

# Outsiders may not be given access to the classroom to distribute religious or anti-religious literature. No court has yet considered whether, if all other community groups are permitted to distribute literature in common areas of public schools, religious groups must be allowed to do so on equal terms subject to reasonable time, place and manner restrictions.

source

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Please keep in mind this is 15 years old so things may have changed a bit.

 

[Magic Man]

I would think that liberals would love this. What needs to happen is a ban on all religious websites right?

Wrong.

Seperation of Church and State would apply to Wiccans and Satanists as well, no?

Yes, it would, however that's irrelevant here. Schools should not ban any religious websites unless they are pornographic or something.

 

[Magic Man]

Hi Father Heathen,



At what point is the line breached. What if a Wiccan reads about Islam in a public school and then wants to become a Muslim? Or an atheist reads information about Christianity in a public school and then wants to become a Christian? What if the information being consumed is proselytizing in nature? Is that information allowed?

Yes. You seem to be confusing yourself. Kids can read whatever they want. The separation of church and state just means the school can't promote one religion over others (as they're clearly doing here). It doesn't mean kids can't pray at school or look at religious websites there, as long as it's not interrupting their studies.

 

[Magic Man]

The left is guilty of its own educational sins. Here in The People's Republic of Ann Arbor, an elementary
school just got shot down on their program for separate field trips for black students. An official said....

"The intent of our field trip was not to segregate or exclude students as has been reported, but rather to
address the societal issues, roadblocks and challenges that our African American children will face as they
pursue a successful academic education here in our community.”

Separate but equal has never been defended with such lofty language, eh? Teaching while impaired is not
the exclusive province of religious fundies.

Are you suggesting this idea of separate field trips came from people on the left?

 

[Smoke]

This is one of the reasons I'm against local control of the schools. Fish-brained officials just go on doing things that are patently illegal, whether in Indiana or Michigan or Mississippi, whether motivated by "conservative" or "liberal" concerns. Often, they end up spending tens of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money trying to defend their illegal decisions in court. (The black-only "Lunch Bunch" in Ann Arbor has already been disbanded, though.)

Another reason is the inability of local boards -- or, in the case of Texas, the state board -- to understand that the purpose of the public schools is to educate the students, not to indoctrinate them in particular religious beliefs.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you suggesting this idea of separate field trips came from people on the left?

Well, spluhhhhh! In Ann Arbor, the left is all there is. Well....there is the ultra-left too.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Holy crap - there's a bunch of ignorant people in Indiana. Hold the friggin' presses.

 

[Autodidact]

Indianapolis public schools, in a clear breach of church-state separation, are banning students from viewing the websites of only certain religions, as well as atheist and LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) sites.

According to a Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) press release, Indianapolis public schools are illegally discriminating against certain religious views, banning students from seeing sites containing what they term as "mysticism", which apparently includes atheism. Here are some key quotes from a pdf copy provided by FFRF of the offending (and offensive) guidel... "Blocked" categories include:

"Sites that promote and provide information on religions such as Wicca, Witchcraft or Satanism. Occult Practices, atheistic views, voodoo rituals or other forms of mysticism, [...] the use of spells, incantations, curses, and magic powers. This category includes sites which discuss or deal with paranormal or unexplained events."
​

Notably absent is reference to Abrahamic religions (Judeo-Christian, Muslim), of course. Not content with just banning information on non-mainstream religious views, Indianapolis public schools have also deemed LGBT sites as off-limits as well.

source

​

And on it goes. But it is Indiana after all, so we shouldn't be surprised.

I smell a lawsuit--and some donations to FFRF.

 

[Autodidact]

I would think that liberals would love this. What needs to happen is a ban on all religious websites right? Seperation of Church and State would apply to Wiccans and Satanists as well, no?

Shows how much you know about liberals. In general, we're in favor of free speech, including that of people we disagree with. Unlike the Indianopolis public schools.

 

[Autodidact]

Hi Father Heathen,



At what point is the line breached. What if a Wiccan reads about Islam in a public school and then wants to become a Muslim? Or an atheist reads information about Christianity in a public school and then wants to become a Christian? What if the information being consumed is proselytizing in nature? Is that information allowed?

Uh, yeah, I think in general the internet allows all forms of speech, including proselytizing, and children should have access to it. Why is that a problem?

What do you think of the authority's actions in this case?

 

[Autodidact]

Hi Father Heathen,



Could students proselytize to other students? Could a student hand out tracts in a public school?

Yes. Teachers cannot. See the difference?

 

[Autodidact]

Hi Father Heathen,

If some of the students wanted some time to pray, would that be allowed in this public school?

That is allowed in all public schools, and that right is protected by our constitution. What is not allowed is school led, required or sponsored prayer.

 

[Magic Man]

Well, spluhhhhh! In Ann Arbor, the left is all there is. Well....there is the ultra-left too.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something. How would racism be a leftist thing? I can see calling them on their faults, but I just don't see how one would call an act of racism "left".

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something. How would racism be a leftist thing? I can see calling them on their faults, but I just don't see how one would call an act of racism "left".

You misread my post. I didn't say they were lefties [/i]because[/i] of what they did. The point is that this is a very very liberal
community & school system, & that they do things every bit as misguided as that which is decried in conservative school districts.
In this case, fighting perceived racism of an achievement gap with the illegal tool of separating students based on race.

 

[McBell]

Holy crap - there's a bunch of ignorant people in Indiana. Hold the friggin' presses.

There's a bunch of ignorant people all the states.

Though I wonder why you think Indiana should not have any ignorant people in it...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There's a bunch of ignorant people all the states.

What exactly is the sentence fragment supposed to mean?

Though I wonder why you think Indiana should not have any ignorant people in it...

Heck, I think there should be more. It's a great place to send them all.

 

[Magic Man]

You misread my post. I didn't say they were lefties [/i]because[/i] of what they did. The point is that this is a very very liberal
community & school system, & that they do things every bit as misguided as that which is decried in conservative school districts. In this case, fighting perceived racism of an achievement gap with the illegal tool of separating students based on race.

OK, I think we were talking past each other. I wasn't even thinking of Indiana as a conservative school system (although I guess it is). I was just taking it on the basis of this one case. I wouldn't consider someone who tries a racist move like that to be on the left, even if they're in a liberal school system. I'm surprised someone would try that in a liberal school system, actually.