Brexit is Costing Britain 500 Million Pounds per Week and Growing

[Altfish]

If the Remainers had got behind the true Peoples Vote instead of calling for this Losers Vote, we would be dictating our terms to the EU.

There you are...Blaming Remainers for the mess you got us in. Unbelievable!!! Try taking responsibility for a change.

So, if Corbyn wins the next election, you will be cheering him from the rafters, not holding him to account?
I would back a plan to leave that gives us what we were promised, including £350m/week to be spent on the NHS. But it was all just promising golden unicorns.

 

[Notanumber]

There you are...Blaming Remainers for the mess you got us in. Unbelievable!!! Try taking responsibility for a change.

So, if Corbyn wins the next election, you will be cheering him from the rafters, not holding him to account?
I would back a plan to leave that gives us what we were promised, including £350m/week to be spent on the NHS. But it was all just promising golden unicorns.

I thank my lucky stars that I am not a pessimist when it comes to trade deals. There are other more important things to be pessimistic about.

 

[Notanumber]

So a spot of antisemitism into the bargain, eh?

Hungary is keeping Jews safe by keeping Muslims out, officials claim.

Billionaire George Soros attacked for working to De-Christianize Europe.

Why does Soros want to flood Europe with migrants?

“Hungary: Will welcome ‘European Refugees’ fleeing the Multicultural West”. That is good to know.

 

[Jumi]

I see you omitted the first sentence! Just to remind you... We wrote the rules for leaving.

You're certainly setting the precedent, you and the EU.

 

[Jumi]

It's not a zero sum game. It is a net negative game. In all scenarios, both sides can only lose, economically at least. The object to make the negative effects for both sides as small as possible, subject to the political objectives that constrain them.

Games often depend on the players, knowing how EU "negotiated" with my country over bailing out Greece, I have no doubt that the EU is not blameless in all this. Negotiators will determine whether they want the game to be played as a zero sum or not. Of course playing for zero sum is usually a loss, but then you have to at least try to make the other one pay for the glorified version of chicken.

 

[exchemist]

Games often depend on the players, knowing how EU "negotiated" with my country over bailing out Greece, I have no doubt that the EU is not blameless in all this. Negotiators will determine whether they want the game to be played as a zero sum or not. Of course playing for zero sum is usually a loss, but then you have to at least try to make the other one pay for the glorified version of chicken.

Well it is certainly true that the EU will make sure the UK is worse off after leaving than it was as a member. That is only natural, since otherwise member countries would complain it was unfair on them.

This is one obvious fact that the halfwits who advocated leaving cannot understand.

 

[Jumi]

Well it is certainly true that the EU will make sure the UK is worse off after leaving than it was as a member. That is only natural, since otherwise member countries would complain it was unfair on them.

This is one obvious fact that the halfwits who advocated leaving cannot understand.

There are people who are "remain" who have said to me that the EU wouldn't do such a thing, so I guess that there are more of them than just "leavers".

I for one knew that they would make sure to make things more difficult than need be, even at cost to themselves. They did punish Finland for much less, arbitrarily, during the Greek bailouts. So it was easy to know that they wouldn't make it easy for Brits to leave.

 

[exchemist]

There are people who are "remain" who have said to me that the EU wouldn't do such a thing, so I guess that there are more of them than just "leavers".

I for one knew that they would make sure to make things more difficult than need be, even at cost to themselves. They did punish Finland for much less, arbitrarily, during the Greek bailouts. So it was easy to know that they wouldn't make it easy for Brits to leave.

I don't think it is question of making things more difficult than need be. I think it is a question of how many favours they do the UK, beyond what a standard "third country" would have a right to expect.

What the Brexiters seem not to grasp is it was our decision to leave, and the default outcome of leaving is reversion to simple third country status, as if we were Pakistan or Sierre Leone. Anything better than that involves special treatment on the part of the EU. We have no right to expect that, though the EU is quite keen to keep us close.

 

[Jumi]

I don't think it is question of making things more difficult than need be. I think it is a question of how many favours they do the UK, beyond what a standard "third country" would have a right to expect.

Right... the UK are traitors, they get what they deserve. In all seriousness a beneficial deal isn't really just a favor, it should be a goal of both.

What the Brexiters seem not to grasp is it was our decision to leave, and the default outcome of leaving is reversion to simple third country status, as if we were Pakistan or Sierre Leone. Anything better than that involves special treatment on the part of the EU. We have no right to expect that, though the EU is quite keen to keep us close.

Oh, you're getting special treatment already, because it's not in the EU's interest to burn all bridges to your country. Do you think they'd treat smaller or poorer countries as well as they did your country? Your default outcome is imaginary in my opinion, even the EU wouldn't shoot itself in such a hurtful spot, we hope.

 

[exchemist]

Right... the UK are traitors, they get what they deserve. In all seriousness a beneficial deal isn't really just a favor, it should be a goal of both.


Oh, you're getting special treatment already, because it's not in the EU's interest to burn all bridges to your country. Do you think they'd treat smaller or poorer countries as well as they did your country? Your default outcome is imaginary in my opinion, even the EU wouldn't shoot itself in such a hurtful spot, we hope.

Sure. We had very special treatment as members of the EU, with opt-outs and rebates etc.

 

[Jumi]

Sure. We had very special treatment as members of the EU, with opt-outs and rebates etc.

And you still do for the reasons I mentioned. Though you're no Germany, you're not suddenly "Sierra Leone" even if you're on your way out.

 

[exchemist]

And you still do for the reasons I mentioned. Though you're no Germany, you're not suddenly "Sierra Leone" even if you're on your way out.

Oh I agree. But we cannot expect favourable treatment it by right: the EU does not "owe" it to us, as the Brexiters seem to imagine. So the EU cannot be said to be putting barriers in our way, just by not giving the Brexiters everything they want - which is often how it is presented, for example in that ludicrous comparison of the EU to the USSR which Jeremy Hunt made a few days ago.

 

[Jumi]

Oh I agree. But we cannot expect favourable treatment it by right: the EU does not "owe" it to us, as the Brexiters seem to imagine.

Did you contribute to the EU? If you did, I think you deserve something.

Of course the Brexiteers have plenty of opinions and silly tactics I can't agree with. I'm the kind of guy who gets blamed by both sides for presenting my views. I'm still in the EU so it's in my interest for this to go well. We've already sacrificed on EU's altar so we don't want that to be in vain.

I'm merely presenting my own and I see some quite naive or fanatical views from pro and con camps. There are plenty of lost opportunities with how this is handled. It would be in EU's interest to keep as much of the mechanisms in place as possible, because that way there's the possibility of getting that "customer" back. Think of it as selling a product, if your customer changes to another provider, you want to keep as much compatibility and good will as possible on the hopes that they will switch back.

So the EU cannot be said to be putting barriers in our way, just by not giving the Brexiters everything they want - which is often how it is presented, for example in that ludicrous comparison of the EU to the USSR which Jeremy Hunt made a few days ago.

There's always comparisons in politics, I've heard Brexiters described worse than USSR.

I don't think EU is that bad to compare it to USSR so it's kind of funny. The joke is an old one of course I've heard it long ago, it's a meme so don't expect everyone using that one to actually think that way. Just like people who say it don't think Don Trump is Hitler.

What I hope is that the EU doesn't become an US of Europe which seems a more realistic bad scenario down the road.

 

[LuisDantas]

If the Remainers had got behind the true Peoples Vote instead of calling for this Losers Vote, we would be dictating our terms to the EU.

That is a ludicrous thing to say.

 

[Notanumber]

That is a ludicrous thing to say.

All the EU needs to do is sit back and watch the Remainers do their dirty work for them.

 

[Altfish]

All the EU needs to do is sit back and watch the Remainers do their dirty work for them.

Once again Brexiteers are shirking all responsibility for the mess they have got us into.
If we had voted to remain, would you have got behind the EU?

 

[Notanumber]

Once again Brexiteers are shirking all responsibility for the mess they have got us into.
If we had voted to remain, would you have got behind the EU?

Once we leave and if you then managed to win a referendum to take us back in, would you allow a Leaver to do the negotiations on your behalf?

 

[Altfish]

Once we leave and if you then managed to win a referendum to take us back in, would you allow a Leaver to do the negotiations on your behalf?

She was elected by the Tories, put Boris and Davis in charge.
Anyway, getting in is easy. The rules are laid out you just have to agree to them.

Once again you gave a non-answer to my question, I take it as a 'NO'.

 

[LuisDantas]

All the EU needs to do is sit back and watch the Remainers do their dirty work for them.

I get that you mistrust the EU, but saying so does not make that justified.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

That is a ludicrous thing to say.

It's the sort of victimised idiocy we've been putting up with since the Leave result was announced. It's everyone's fault but the Leavers, apparently.