British people guess how much US healthcare costs.

[HonestJoe]

I was asking a question that has been adequately answered.

Queries and objections to that question have resulted in this thread getting close to 5 pages long.

I’m sorry. It’s just that there is a whole mess of over-simplified statistics, misrepresentations and outright lies constantly spouted about healthcare when then get spun off in to partisan political and nationalist trash. When you’re directly involved, it all just gets very frustrating, especially since it’s one massive distraction to the major problem of providing modern healthcare that we should all be facing up to together.

 

[Cooky]

Being a dupe and paying vastly more than market rate for your meds is worthy of the Christ himself... Not sure even the most shameless PR flack would have the chutzpah to spin it to that extent

There's nothing noble about being a sucker, especially while being an apologist for those who treat you like a sucker. That's just weak.

"Socialised" countries still buy their medical supplies at market rates from the same companies you do. They just pay the correct price, i.e. capitalism. Of the biggest 10 biomedical/pharma companies, 5 are European and 5 are American (top 25: 12.5 American 12.5 non-American). Europe appreciates your unnecessary contribution to economic well being, but they do feel a bit bad for the fact you keep on doing it willingly without getting any the wiser. They'd really be happier if you stopped doing so as it would help save many lives.

You are the victim of what is known as rent seeking, when companies engage in profiteering without offering additional value. In this case, it's as a result of anti-competitive policies enacted by your government.

I think you win 'Delusion of the year' award, in my humble opinion.

A pathetic display of stockholm syndrome. Nothing more.

Oh. My. God.

Opinions are like bung holes, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.”

...But nobody has addressed the benefits of wealthy industries having the money to research the next great product, a trait pronounced through capitalism.

You're all only caring about social benefits.

Bending the Productivity Curve: Why America Leads the World in Medical Innovation

 

[ChristineM]

Opinions are like bung holes, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.”

...But nobody has addressed the benefits of wealthy industries having the money to research the next great product, a trait found pronounced through capitalism.

You're all only caring about social benefits.

And those fat cat CEOs whose job it is to ensure the company is profitable for shareholders and so market drugs at sky high prices to boost dividend

It seems rather than promote science, capitalism is holding it back by only funding those projects that are guaranteed to make a quick profit

 

[Cooky]

Part of being socially responsible is making sacrifices for the Common Good... And not just one's self.

....With medical innovation, we're helping the whole world.

 

[Cooky]

And those fat cat CEOs whose job it is to ensure the company is profitable for shareholders and so market drugs at sky high prices to boost dividend

It seems rather than promote science, capitalism is holding it back by only funding those projects that are guaranteed to make a quick profit

The only thing that can make a profit is a true advancement in the medical industry. Think about it for a minute.

These companies have the strictest guidelines to pass in the world, employing real scientists, using real science.

...Unless someone can prove that the statistics are wrong.

Bending the Productivity Curve: Why America Leads the World in Medical Innovation

 

[ChristineM]

The only thing that can make a profit is a true advancement. Think about it for a minute.

What makes a profit is hard work, dedication and sometimes thinking outside the box. Conservatism does not think outside the box.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Opinions are like bung holes, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.”

...But nobody has addressed the benefits of wealthy industries having the money to research the next great product, a trait pronounced through capitalism.

You're all only caring about social benefits.

Bending the Productivity Curve: Why America Leads the World in Medical Innovation

The USA might be leading the world in some areas but they are decidedly behind in others, and capitalism as it exists is hardly going to produce a future that most will want, which is where the USA seems to lead - as in consuming as much of the planet's resources as quickly as possible seemingly. No doubt I could go on about guns and such, death penalties, etc., but I won't.

 

[Cooky]

What makes a profit is hard work, dedication and sometimes thinking outside the box. Conservatism does not think outside the box.

Traditionally, socialism is conservativism. It's always been considered "liberal" to take power away from the government and place it in the private sector (the people).

...Look to the old monarchies as a reference.

 

[Cooky]

The USA might be leading the world in some areas but they are decidedly behind in others, and capitalism as it exists is hardly going to produce a future that most will want, which is where the USA seems to lead - as in consuming as much of the planet's resources as quickly as possible seemingly. No doubt I could go on about guns and such, death penalties, etc., but I won't.

See, you're thinking in terms of ideologies, and not reality. We're talking about medical advancements here, specifically, and not whether capitalism is good in every facet of the economy. Clearly it's not.

...But here, we could lose something bigger. And for good if we change it... I just want people to understand what they're getting themselves into.

I want you to see the whole picture, and not just the parts that win a debate.

 

[ChristineM]

Traditionally, socialism is conservativism. It's always been considered "liberal" to take power away from the government and place it in the private sector.

I am not american nor is 95% of the world population


However i am proud to be a liberal socialist who owned a business and shared the profits with the staff

 

[Cooky]

I am not american nor is 95% of the world population


However i am proud to be a liberal socialist who owned a business and shared the profits with the staff

But you're not a pure, untrammeled socialist. If you were, you would want a government, similar to a monarchy for example, to own your business, and dictate how it operates.

...Do you see what I'm getting at? That Liberalism places power to the people of the private sector, and conservativism is increased government control?

This is not an American understanding. This is understanding issues at their core.

 

[Cooky]

I'm the real liberal here.

 

[Mock Turtle]

But you're not a pure, untrammeled socialist. If you were, you would want a government, similar to a monarchy for example, to own your business, and dictate how it operates.

...Do you see what I'm getting at? That Liberalism places power to the private sector, and conservativism is increased government control?

This is not an American understanding. This is understanding issues at their core.

I think you are describing communism here. Having the important industries, services and transport under government control seems sensible to me, as does having a service like the NHS. Also, if we are to avoid the economic upsets we have all too often, then control does appear necessary from somewhere - presumably government as it should be impartial - and I don't see this happening in the USA. 2008 - just the thing to put us all back a decade - which is what has happened basically.

 

[Cooky]

I think you are describing communism here. Having the important industries, services and transport under government control seems sensible to me, as does having a service like the NHS. Also, if we are to avoid the economic upsets we have all too often, then control does appear necessary from somewhere - presumably government as it should be impartial - and I don't see this happening in the USA. 2008 - just the thing to put us all back a decade - which is what has happened basically.

I'm not trying to talk about communism, even if I have described it as essentially the ultra-conservative system that it truly is.

...I'm trying to explain the differences between actual conservativism and actual liberalism.

 

[ChristineM]

But you're not a pure, untrammeled socialist. If you were, you would want a government, similar to a monarchy for example, to own your business, and dictate how it operates.

...Do you see what I'm getting at? That Liberalism places power to the private sector, and conservativism is increased government control?

This is not an American understanding. This is understanding issues at their core.

The american understanding of both liberalism and socialism is decidedly screwy, as indicated by your post

Liberal : willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

Socialism : a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

No monarchy mentioned.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm the real liberal here.

Don't shout that too loud, you are likely to be shot by conservatives

 

[oldbadger]

Brits pay for their healthcare. 12% of earning every week, every month, every year throughout your life whether you are ill or not.

For that healthcare is guaranteed if you dont mind waiting, often months or more for your intervention.

Does that add up to more than you pay?

I got sent for a cancer investigation in 2017 and underwent 11 different tests in 4 weeks. When the results cleared me my doctor put me in for circulation and heart tests, all sorted in a further three weeks. So fast, so good. Cost? Nothing!!!!

Does you 12% of wages figure also cover graduated pension? I think it does.

If you don't like the service then fair enough, but I think it's very good, and my grad pension is very good as well.

 

[Father Heathen]

Part of being socially responsible is making sacrifices for the Common Good... And not just one's self.

Sounds like something a socialist would say.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

If Congress were to work together on implementing Trump's plan to lower prescription drug prices rather than get sidetracked on the Democratic partisan impeachment coup attempt to depose our P.O.T.U.S., then perhaps the overall cost of American health care would decrease.

I think that you're overlooking the fact that the prices of drugs is only a part of the equation. In the video, people gasped at the cost of an ambulance, having a baby in a hospital, surgery, and life-flight. And how is Congress going to implement the lowering of drug prices without the kinds of government interventions that conservatives scream socialism about? What happened to unbridled free enterprise and the market regulating itself?

Remember the years we heard about too much government interference, bureaucratic red tape, the government is incompetent at everything, the nanny state, the need to deregulate and shrink government? Remember this? :: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - Ronald Reagan, or "I'm not in favor of abolishing the government. I just want to shrink it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub." - conservative activist Grover Norquist. Conservatives don't want government involvement there.

Furthermore, Republicans do nothing for ordinary citizens. They represent the 1%, who don't want or need drug prices lowered. Trump knows this, and is just posturing to appear to care about what people want or need. He doesn't care about your bottom line, either - just his. He's just lying again to see how many people he can fool into thinking he cares about them, assured that the Republicans will never act to effect real reform.

Additionally, although I don't agree with you that the impeachment is partisan or in any way inappropriate, I certainly wouldn't object to a partisan coup. I would support it. Do you recall McConnell announcing in Obama's first year that his goal was to make Obama a one-term president. Why isn't is appropriate for the Democrats to make Trump less than a one-term president if they can? Why isn't it appropriate to impeach Trump

And I don't want the Democrats cooperating with the Republicans. The favor isn't returned. The Republicans have no interest in liberal America (or for most Republican voters either, for that matter), but the Democrats have no duty to cooperate with what is an enemy, not the loyal opposition.

Please let your Congressional Representative know we'd rather have them enact legislation to lower prescription drug prices rather than waste their time on trying to depose our P.O.T.U.S.

I feel the opposite. The number one priority to make America great again is to remove Trump (and obstruct and weaken the Republicans in general). I know you disagree.

Who remembers Newt Gingrich's answer when asked why impeach Bill Clinton : "because we can"? And they did, in an extremely partisan way following an actual witch hunt in search of a crime that took them from Whitewater to Travelgate to Paula Jones and eventually to Monica Lewinski, where they finally found something to bring articles of impeachment.

For me, that set the tone for how the Democrats should treat Republican the next Republican president that they could impeach. Even if they didn't have just cause, the Democrats owe the Republicans an impeachment just because they can. What comes 'round goes 'round. If Republicans choose to govern with a scorched earth assault on the Democrats and liberal values, they deserve to be treated in kind if for no other reason than that there be consequences for their lack of forebearance.

 

[Father Heathen]

Opinions are like bung holes, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.”

...But nobody has addressed the benefits of wealthy industries having the money to research the next great product, a trait pronounced through capitalism.

You're all only caring about social benefits.

Bending the Productivity Curve: Why America Leads the World in Medical Innovation

Do you have any data that shows how exactly the predatory insurance racket contributes toward medical development?
You're simply performing mental gymnastics in futile desperation to preserve a deeply flawed and fragile political narrative.