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British Royalty

dale1257

dfd001
Anybody study the Tudor era of British History?

Its amazing how religion plays a role; how religion was used by power brokers for their own personal gain.

But I'm thinking of one in particular...Lady Jane Gray. Technically, she was Queen Jane, if only for a week or so. Her story is fascinating. But what I personally find engaging is that despite all that happened, in the end, she could have saved herself. All she had to do was to denounce her protestantism, and accept the Catholic Faith. She refused. Amazing. Even more so when you realize that she was the ripe old age of 15.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I love British history! The royal lines are fascinating to me and I do love the Tudor era. I must say that I have not studied the life of Jane Gray but since you mentioned it, i probably will.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Anybody study the Tudor era of British History?

Its amazing how religion plays a role; how religion was used by power brokers for their own personal gain.

But I'm thinking of one in particular...Lady Jane Gray. Technically, she was Queen Jane, if only for a week or so. Her story is fascinating. But what I personally find engaging is that despite all that happened, in the end, she could have saved herself. All she had to do was to denounce her protestantism, and accept the Catholic Faith. She refused. Amazing. Even more so when you realize that she was the ripe old age of 15.

9 days,sad story,take a good glug of Vodka,some Tomato juice and worcester sauce and you have the name of the Woman who had her executed,Bloody Mary,quite a nasty piece of work really.
What i find interesting about the Tudors was Henry the VIII,a rithless tyrant for sure but if it had'nt been for him we would never had shaken off the shackles of Rome.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
The shackles of Rome were falling fast - Ol Henry was just in the right place at the right time, and had the right amount of ruthlessness about him.

For the first twenty or so years of his adulthood, he was a pretty devout Catholic. He wrote many essays on religious themes, and even wrote some pretty decent music. He was a very intelligent man - but spoiled and hedonistic - bad combination.

I took my RF name from his first wife - Catherine of Aragon. She was a fascinating woman and one of my personal heroes. Though her life was full of tragedy, she married Henry for love and bore him several children. They had a very loving relationship for many years. When Henry met Anne Boleyn, he was heartbroken and frustrated by his and Catherine's inability to produce a living male heir. He was a very deeply theological person and began to doubt his decision to marry his brother's widow, from a theological perspective. He wondered if he was being punished for adultery. It was at this moment that Anne Boleyn and her very ambitious family made their move for the throne. She and other political players played up the moralistic theological side of the issue in order to gain ground.

The people hated her and loved Catherine. Interesting times.

The Tudor family history is my favorite time period to study and read about. Henry was, in my opinion, a person who was full of promise but also full of appetites that he expected to be accommodated without ramifications. He died a very unhappy and unfulfilled man.

One of my other heroes, Sir Thomas More, was one of his victims. What a man! He fought for women's rights, and was loyal, honest, intelligent, and devout. He was a hero all the way to the executioner's blade, even cracking a joke as he laid his head on the block. He said, "Please let me move my beard - it has served me well, and does not deserve to be chopped." (He had grown the beard in prison and credited it for keeping him warm.)

Jane Grey, Catherine of Aragon, and Sir Thomas More died for their faith and on principle. In my opinion, they are to be admired. (Actually, Catherine died isolated and basically under house arrest, but her health was broken by the strain of her husband's divorce and his estrangement from the church - she lived only a short time after he divorced her.)

The movie Lady Jane, with Helena Bonham Carter and Cary Elwes, is excellent - I highly recommend it!

60026206.jpg


For nine politically charged days in 1553, protestant martyr Lady Jane Grey (Helena Bonham Carter) rules England against her will, thanks to a conspiracy concocted by a band of men bent on keeping the crown away from the Church of Rome. But when Princess Mary, the daughter of King Henry, assumes the throne, Lady Jane and her husband, Guilford Dudley (Cary Elwes), are imprisoned and sentenced to die.
Netflix: Rent as many movies as you want for only $8.99 a month! Free Trial
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
One of my favourite bits o Behan

Pay no heed to the alien preacher
Or his Church without meaning or faith
'Cause the foundation stone of his temple
Is the bollocks of Henry the Eighth
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I find it interesting that Mary I is seen as such a blood hound when in reality she killed as many people as her father and Elizabeth. She killed many who were previously responsible for killing Catholics. She never really did seem that bad to me when you consider what every other English monarch was responsible for.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
The movie Lady Jane, with Helena Bonham Carter and Cary Elwes, is excellent - I highly recommend it!

60026206.jpg


For nine politically charged days in 1553, protestant martyr Lady Jane Grey (Helena Bonham Carter) rules England against her will, thanks to a conspiracy concocted by a band of men bent on keeping the crown away from the Church of Rome. But when Princess Mary, the daughter of King Henry, assumes the throne, Lady Jane and her husband, Guilford Dudley (Cary Elwes), are imprisoned and sentenced to die.
Netflix: Rent as many movies as you want for only $8.99 a month! Free Trial

... and in that movie, "Bloody Mary" didn't want to execute her...
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
ah the tudors..of course, Britain's golden Age...
culminating in Elizabeth....the virgin queen...
who with the help of a certain map making occultist, John Dee...
thought up the British Empire

Course I liekt he TV show,,,,, they have uncut versions...not sure of the difference..
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
... and in that movie, "Bloody Mary" didn't want to execute her...

Just as Elizabeth I didn't want to have her Sister executed,there would be pressure from advisers as Politics played its role
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
... and in that movie, "Bloody Mary" didn't want to execute her...

Just as Elizabeth I didn't want to have her Sister executed,there would be pressure from advisers as Politics played its role

When I read about the historical event it was also saying that Mary didn't want Jane executed and thus kept her locked up for months instead. And as you said, she eventually gave in to pressures.
 

Smoke

Done here.
When I read about the historical event it was also saying that Mary didn't want Jane executed and thus kept her locked up for months instead. And as you said, she eventually gave in to pressures.
It was Jane's father's attempt to overthrow Mary that really sealed Jane's fate. The reason converting to Catholicism could have saved Jane is that as a Catholic monarch she wouldn't be useful to the Protestants, so they'd have no religious reason to support her against the rightful queen. Also, as a Catholic she'd have to acknowledge Mary as the legitimate heir, rather than "the king's ******* daughter" as she was referred to during Jane's brief reign.

Mary was much nicer about the whole thing than her father would have been. Henry executed most of his relatives who might have a claim to the throne, and often on the flimsiest pretexts.
 

dale1257

dfd001
The shackles of Rome were falling fast - Ol Henry was just in the right place at the right time, and had the right amount of ruthlessness about him.

For the first twenty or so years of his adulthood, he was a pretty devout Catholic. He wrote many essays on religious themes, and even wrote some pretty decent music. He was a very intelligent man - but spoiled and hedonistic - bad combination.

I took my RF name from his first wife - Catherine of Aragon. She was a fascinating woman and one of my personal heroes. Though her life was full of tragedy, she married Henry for love and bore him several children. They had a very loving relationship for many years. When Henry met Anne Boleyn, he was heartbroken and frustrated by his and Catherine's inability to produce a living male heir. He was a very deeply theological person and began to doubt his decision to marry his brother's widow, from a theological perspective. He wondered if he was being punished for adultery. It was at this moment that Anne Boleyn and her very ambitious family made their move for the throne. She and other political players played up the moralistic theological side of the issue in order to gain ground.

The people hated her and loved Catherine. Interesting times.

The Tudor family history is my favorite time period to study and read about. Henry was, in my opinion, a person who was full of promise but also full of appetites that he expected to be accommodated without ramifications. He died a very unhappy and unfulfilled man.

One of my other heroes, Sir Thomas More, was one of his victims. What a man! He fought for women's rights, and was loyal, honest, intelligent, and devout. He was a hero all the way to the executioner's blade, even cracking a joke as he laid his head on the block. He said, "Please let me move my beard - it has served me well, and does not deserve to be chopped." (He had grown the beard in prison and credited it for keeping him warm.)

Jane Grey, Catherine of Aragon, and Sir Thomas More died for their faith and on principle. In my opinion, they are to be admired. (Actually, Catherine died isolated and basically under house arrest, but her health was broken by the strain of her husband's divorce and his estrangement from the church - she lived only a short time after he divorced her.)

The movie Lady Jane, with Helena Bonham Carter and Cary Elwes, is excellent - I highly recommend it!

Very fasinating people indeed. Henry was as ruthless as he needed to be to accomplish his goals, whatever they may have been. The betterment of England, the desire for a male heir, the conquest of the next beautiful woman...he was a living example of power corrupts..absolute power corrupts abssolutely.
I don't know exactly what to say about Katherine. A class act, to be sure. But a pawn in a political power struggle. The more I read about Tudor England, the more I am convinced that it was all about power, using religion as an excuse. As for Henry's role.....:D

Thomas Moore, in my opinion, is 50/50. I can admire his standing up for his belief, no matter the cost. Yet, I keep thinking."Tell that to the people he had tortured and murdered for their own beliefs." Although, if it matters, Bloody Mary was much more murderous.

Jane is probably the most fasinating. Yes, the movie you mentioned is entertaining. But it is also extremely hollywoodized. That is to say so full of bull crap I had to hold my nose. There are several books out on Jane. My favorite is one called "Nine Days Queen". There is another that has some of her the writings & correspondance. The truth is much better than the fiction. What makes it so fasinating is that after reading the books, I came to the belief that, contrary to popular mythology, Jane was not so dumb or naieve as some would have us believe. She was, in fact, one smart cookie. And I also believe that she knew the score as soon as her 'marriage' was arranged. No she could not have prevented it, so tried to make the best of a bad situation. Hints of this can be seen in some of her actions. Refusing to make Guilfred the King. Taking the keys to the tower. And other actions that would have the most disasterous consequences for her. Like her choice of leaders for the Army. And yet, the most admirable quality was, despite her age, she still had the opportunity to spare herself. All she had to do was convert......

But she did not. And the rest, as they say, is history.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Thomas Moore, in my opinion, is 50/50. I can admire his standing up for his belief, no matter the cost. Yet, I keep thinking."Tell that to the people he had tortured and murdered for their own beliefs."
I don't automatically admire anybody for standing up for his beliefs no matter what. It depends a great deal on what those beliefs are. Fanaticism has no value in itself.
 
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