Buddha and Non-vegetarianism.

[nameless]

Seen a post from mrcheese saying, Buddha allows meat consumption through his middle way. I would like to know how buddha's middle way get along with His Non-Violence.

Buddhist Wisdom/ The Middle path

Let me tell you about the middle path. Dressing in rough and dirty garments,
letting your hair grow matted, abstaining from eating any meat or fish, does not
cleanse the one who is deluded. Mortifying the flesh through excessive hardship
does not lead to a triumph over the senses. All self-inflicted suffering is
useless as long as the feeling of self is dominant.

so did buddha allowed animal killing and eating its flesh?

 

[Smoke]

Seen a post from mrcheese saying, Buddha allows meat consumption through his middle way. I would like to know how buddha's middle way get along with His Non-Violence.

so did buddha allowed animal killing and eating its flesh?

I don't believe that Sakyamuni Buddha was a vegetarian, though you can find vegetarian Buddhists who disagree.

You might find this Q&A informative: A Basic Buddhism Guide: Vegetarianism

 

[katiafish]

In Tibet there were special people that went to villages to slaughter yuks, one of the methods is going after yuks, scaring them, until they fall of the cliff.. These special dedicated people received blessings from lamas to do so..

Of course that is how it Used to be, now with the Chinese rule I don't think there is a shortage of people who slaughter the animals without batting an eyelid..

 

[zenzero]

Friend nameless,

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese
Buddhist Wisdom/ The Middle path

Let me tell you about the middle path. Dressing in rough and dirty garments,
letting your hair grow matted, abstaining from eating any meat or fish, does not
cleanse the one who is deluded. Mortifying the flesh through excessive hardship
does not lead to a triumph over the senses. All self-inflicted suffering is
useless as long as the feeling of self is dominant.

Basically he is talking about the various followers of sanatan dharma from which he rose or that which became a backdrop to his gestalt.
Sanatan dharma has many ways or paths as it is an open ended and accepts each individual to have his individual way of life which too is part of dharma. Those days even today the sadhus keep themselves dirty, allow their hair to become matted, some eat non-vegetarian food and some also undergo severe penance like standing on one feet for years, One of buddhas gurus which were many during his years of search made him stay hungry for days till his body was just at its breaking point and peace of mind still deluded him, He left all his so called gurus and somehow managed to cross a stream like river and reached the shelter of a tree. Here he was served food by a lady which allowed his body to start functioning and slowly in that relaxation when he forgot all about enlightenment that it dawned on him that one needs no make any effort to be enlightenment except be at ease with himself doing everything consciously. It is in that way that he became aware of his own breathing and slowly went IN following his breath consciously and became enlightened and achieved nirvana.
Buddha is stating that those whose minds are deluded like he was earlier will never become enlightened even if they become vegetarian or grow matted hair or stay dirty.
He was very sensitive human and sensitive even to plant life and never professed eating meat. This is the personal understanding.
Have heard that he allowed his monks to eat whatever the monks received as alms in their begging bowl and once a monk meditating under a tree found a dead bird in his begging bowl and asked buddha as to what he should do with it as they were instructed to eat whatever fell in their begging bowl? Buddha was in a dilema as both ways he had to lose face and so he said ok as he knew the chances of the same feat repeating again during any of his monks lifetime were next to nil BUT the followers took the message as that they are allowed to eat meat of naturally dead animals and in the south east Asian countries have heard restaurants carrying notices like meat of dead animals available. Imagine the amount of animals dying naturally in those buddhist populated countries eating meat!

Love & rgds

 

[nameless]

Friend nameless,



Basically he is talking about the various followers of sanatan dharma from which he rose or that which became a backdrop to his gestalt.
Sanatan dharma has many ways or paths as it is an open ended and accepts each individual to have his individual way of life which too is part of dharma. Those days even today the sadhus keep themselves dirty, allow their hair to become matted, some eat non-vegetarian food and some also undergo severe penance like standing on one feet for years, One of buddhas gurus which were many during his years of search made him stay hungry for days till his body was just at its breaking point and peace of mind still deluded him, He left all his so called gurus and somehow managed to cross a stream like river and reached the shelter of a tree. Here he was served food by a lady which allowed his body to start functioning and slowly in that relaxation when he forgot all about enlightenment that it dawned on him that one needs no make any effort to be enlightenment except be at ease with himself doing everything consciously. It is in that way that he became aware of his own breathing and slowly went IN following his breath consciously and became enlightened and achieved nirvana.
Buddha is stating that those whose minds are deluded like he was earlier will never become enlightened even if they become vegetarian or grow matted hair or stay dirty.
He was very sensitive human and sensitive even to plant life and never professed eating meat. This is the personal understanding.
Have heard that he allowed his monks to eat whatever the monks received as alms in their begging bowl and once a monk meditating under a tree found a dead bird in his begging bowl and asked buddha as to what he should do with it as they were instructed to eat whatever fell in their begging bowl? Buddha was in a dilema as both ways he had to lose face and so he said ok as he knew the chances of the same feat repeating again during any of his monks lifetime were next to nil BUT the followers took the message as that they are allowed to eat meat of naturally dead animals and in the south east Asian countries have heard restaurants carrying notices like meat of dead animals available. Imagine the amount of animals dying naturally in those buddhist populated countries eating meat!

Love & rgds

thanks so much zenzero, i find your explanation to be very satisfactory.
Sad to see people altering Buddha's teaching to meet their needs, thereby insulting Buddha.

 

[MountainHumanist]

"So did buddha allowed animal killing and eating its flesh?"

I'm not sure if it is certain that a historical Buddha ever existed (or at least the one presented) in the sense of the figure presented in the sutras. Given how oral histories tend to be garbled into legends over time, I would guess there was probably a proto-Buddha and a proto-Jesus but the accounts which have evolved are likely more a reflection of the personalities and beliefs of the individual authors. Having said that, there is no real sense of the Buddha allowing or not allowing anyone to eat meat. It's an individual decision that has to be made with full awareness (as much as possible) of one's own beliefs, delusions, etc. concerning their practice of non-harm. For me, this means I eat less meat than I used to and perhaps over time I will evolve to a lifestyle of vegetarianism. It's not something that defines my life, it's just a continued journey along the Middle Way. Once we start basing life decisions on a pre-scientific document of unknown authorship, we begin the slippery slope to dogma and to that place where others do our thinking for us. From what I understand of the Buddha (and this is of course subjective), his teaching was simple: "Think for yourself and you'll find there are some practices which are beneficial towards the cessation of suffering and some which are not. Which do you think would be best to follow?"

 

[Twilight Hue]

Seen a post from mrcheese saying, Buddha allows meat consumption through his middle way. I would like to know how buddha's middle way get along with His Non-Violence.



so did buddha allowed animal killing and eating its flesh?

Was Buddha himself allowed to kill animals and eat their flesh?

 

[nameless]

Was Buddha himself allowed to kill animals and eat their flesh?

Buddha himself allowed to offer his life to avoid goat sacrifice.

 

[zenzero]

Friend MountainHumanist,

Yes, you are on the path.
Best Wishes for your journey.
Buddha bless you!

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend nameless,

Yes, surely all buddhas are PRO-LIFE, has to be or they are no buddha.

Love & rgds

 

[Master Vigil]

As for this Buddhist... I am a beggar, and therefore will eat whatever is available to me. If that is meat, it is meat. At the time of my encounter with it, it is already dead and as a buddhist... I am not attached to what I think it should be.

This being said, I would never purposefully (especially with pleasure) kill and animal for food.

 

[zenzero]

Friend MV,

Personally did kill few chickens and a pigeon once when in school and college BUT all those few times could not eat properly, the feeling was one of having fallen in one's own eyes.Thereafter no more killing except mosquitoes and ants, which too will drop in due course.

Love & rgds

 

[Twilight Hue]

Friend nameless,

Yes, surely all buddhas are PRO-LIFE, has to be or they are no buddha.

Love & rgds

Looks like a new koan. Does no-Buddha have Buddha nature?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Nowhere Man,

Yes, surely all buddhas are PRO-LIFE, has to be or they are no buddha.

It was only to indicate that such a person is not THOUGHT FREE..

Does no-Buddha have Buddha nature?

Yes it does expect the *REALIZATION* that it has.
Love & rgds

 

[xkatz]

Although Buddha advocated non-violence he wasn't a vegetarian himself and it isn't obligatory for a Buddhist to be vegetarian. In fact, the Buddha's last meal was said to be pork. The only thing I know is that most monks are vegetarians and some sects may require monks to be vegetarian (although I'm not sure which sects).

 

[zenzero]

Friend xkatz,

Although Buddha advocated non-violence he wasn't a vegetarian himself and it isn't obligatory for a Buddhist to be vegetarian. In fact, the Buddha's last meal was said to be pork. The only thing I know is that most monks are vegetarians and some sects may require monks to be vegetarian (although I'm not sure which sects).

Kindly do forward the source if possible.
However, personal understanding is that buddhas have to be Pro-Life.
Example of his sensitivities towards life even in plants is when he confronted *Angulimala* and just *kill me* which for the first time Angulimala's hand shook.
Having understood Buddha said cut a branch which Angulimala did and then asked him to join the branch back. Angulimala fell at Buddha's feet having understood the point.

As mentioned am always open to facts and figures BUT not interpretations as it is there that they get falsified. So, kindly forward the source of buddha's last meal story.

Love & rgds

 

[xkatz]

Kindly do forward the source if possible.

Well the sources about Buddha's last meal are wikipedia and one of the books I have here (An Idiot's Guide to Buddhism I believe) I think also another book of mine mentions it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend xkatz,

Just opened two sources:
1. Life of Buddha: The Buddha's Last Meal (Part 2)
2.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha

When the Buddha and his disciples arrived at Pava, the son of the village goldsmith, whose name was Cunda, invited the party to a meal called sukaramaddava, or "boar's delight". Some scholars believe it was a special delicious dish of mushrooms, while others believe it to be a dish of wild boar's flesh.

Tell him that two offerings to the Buddha are of equal gain; the offering of food just before his supreme enlightenment and the offering of food just before he passes away. This is the final birth of the Buddha."

WIKI: The precise contents of the Buddha's final meal are not clear, due to variant scriptural traditions and ambiguity over the translation of certain significant terms; the Theravada tradition generally believes that the Buddha was offered some kind of pork, while the Mahayana tradition believes that the Buddha consumed some sort of truffle or other mushroom.

From the above, there are no clear picture of his being a non-vegetarian.
Besides *yogis* always accept whatever is offered as an offering as like *VIRGINITY* which is not physical, so is *vegetarian*. To illustrate this point recall a true story which heard first hand from a hath yogi of School of Yoga, Bihar, India. Was attending his classes where he spoke about the benefits of been a vegetarian etc and also stated that when a guests offers a yogi non-veg he does not reject it as the host has prepared it out of his love for the person invited and one partakes of the love and not the mass besides a yogi can always go back and vomit the intake so as not to damage his inner system. He also stated how he did the same while in Australia and his hosts prepared only non-veg food for him as a sign of honor.

So, even if buddha had a last meal which consist of boar which too is not clear does not make him non-vegetarian as he was a yogi and was partaking of the love of Cunda in any form presented and knew how to deal with it. Besides it was a symbol of his last meal as stated above.

Love & rgds

 

[xkatz]

Zenzero,

While I understand what your trying to say, wouldn't vegetarianism go against the principle of the middle-path anyways? If one starves because they cannot eat meat isn't that asceticism, which is something the Buddha frowned upon?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually I'm aware there are monastic requirements pertaining to a strict vegetarian diet, but does not need apply to lay. I view as well that a total vegetarian pallet can be regarded as a pursuit of an extreme, same as a person who happens to pursue a diet totally consisting of meat. Point being is that every being dies so that another lives. Its just the way it is and altering behavior isn't going to ultimately change that fact. I really appreciate the sensitivity that vegetarians show in regards to suffering, but its just not a realistic view of how things are.