Buddhism and Atheism?

[marc]

Hi everyone!

I recently started attending a Tibetan Buddhist temple. I an atheist and so far I feel the two are not in conflict. My understanding is that Buddhism doesn't believe in a God ... which I don't either. Am I going to be disappointed and find out this is not the case?

Thanks
Marc

 

[LuisDantas]

You should probably ask people of that specific temple. Understandings vary.

Generally speaking, Tibetan Buddhism tends to make ample use of practice deities... but whether that means that people believe in their literal existence is a separate matter, and as I understand it largely a personal call.

One thing to keep in mind is that deities, in Buddhism, are usually not understood to transcend impermanence and other core concepts.

 

[Lyndon]

Tibetan Buddhism is more polytheist and often involves the worship of deities.

 

[marc]

Thanks for the quick response! They did discuss deities, but my understanding was that they are not viewed as gods (at least by that temple). I have no problem with the notion of multiple levels of existence - but I have an issue with the idea that a being of some kind "rules" anything.

 

[George-ananda]

Hi everyone!

I recently started attending a Tibetan Buddhist temple. I an atheist and so far I feel the two are not in conflict. My understanding is that Buddhism doesn't believe in a God ... which I don't either. Am I going to be disappointed and find out this is not the case?

Thanks
Marc

I wouldn't worry about that concern if you are talking about the God of Abrahamic religions. The concepts are different.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hi everyone!

I recently started attending a Tibetan Buddhist temple. I an atheist and so far I feel the two are not in conflict. My understanding is that Buddhism doesn't believe in a God ... which I don't either. Am I going to be disappointed and find out this is not the case?

Thanks
Marc

Not unless you first realise that Buddhism oftentimes gets gussied up in Hindu drag as a number of people like to do claiming Buddhist practices are theistic somehow.

 

[marc]

Not unless you first realise that Buddhism oftentimes gets gussied up in Hindu drag as a number of people like to do claiming Buddhist practices are theistic somehow.

Could you explain?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Could you explain?

Was a theist once upon a time.

Suffice to say I remember sound advice givin when I began in 2006. ,

"Drop all beliefs ye who enters the gateless gate".

A person can be theist and practice Buddhism, however it only takes one so "deep". Buddhism itself isn't theistic or atheist actually. The practices remain labeless if you want the truth of the matter.

People like to cling on to things. It's hard to let go and remains incorporated in the psyche. One of the first realizations when the fanny hits the cushion.

Hinduism gets mixed into the stew time to time and passed as Buddhism for the larger part. It's solely because a person cannot let go and allow such things to pass due to strong ego.

Zen and Theravada Buddhism among all recognised schools of Buddhism remain strictly void of such defilements and distractions. No theism. No atheism.

People can and will claim otherwise.

Best to see naturally for yourself the benefit of a progressively still mind. Mental formations like theism and atheism become less revelent as things become naturally clearer.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, as Nowhere Man says, no theism, no atheism. Both irrelevant deleberations. Conduct is primary. The Noble Eight-Fold Path.
Noble Eightfold Path - Wikipedia

 

[Jeff Strehlow]

Like others have said, Buddhism has some of the Hindu deities and Tibetan Buddhism has added some local deities. To some Buddhists deities are important. Some forms of Buddhism, such as Pure Land, even depend on deities--if you consider Amitaba Buddha a deity. Many Buddhists see Kuan Yin (Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva) like a god--many do but I'm not saying that is right.

I'm not big on deities, but this is how I see it. Worshiping/adoring someone or a deity that is enlightened--that is a buddha or bodhisattva--might have a positive affect on a person. The buddha or bodhisattva is an ideal Buddhist and a role model. Focusing on a buddha or bodhisattva can also be a form of meditation, if it's done with single mindedness.

The important thing to remember is that the objective of Buddhism is not worshiping gods. The objective of Buddhism is realizing the real nature of all existence--and by doing so freeing oneself from suffering. While doing that helping others do the same--thus the vow to save all sentient beings.

 

[Lyndon]

If you want to study Buddhism with less emphasis on gods and deities, I would suggest you investigate Therevada (Southern) Buddhism, you're not really going to get far away from deities in Mahayana Buddhism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you want to study Buddhism with less emphasis on gods and deities, I would suggest you investigate Therevada (Southern) Buddhism, you're not really going to get far away from deities in Mahayana Buddhism.

Zen is a Mahayana school. There are no dieities.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Like others have said, Buddhism has some of the Hindu deities and Tibetan Buddhism has added some local deities. To some Buddhists deities are important. Some forms of Buddhism, such as Pure Land, even depend on deities--if you consider Amitaba Buddha a deity. Many Buddhists see Kuan Yin (Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva) like a god--many do but I'm not saying that is right.

I'm not big on deities, but this is how I see it. Worshiping/adoring someone or a deity that is enlightened--that is a buddha or bodhisattva--might have a positive affect on a person. The buddha or bodhisattva is an ideal Buddhist and a role model. Focusing on a buddha or bodhisattva can also be a form of meditation, if it's done with single mindedness.

The important thing to remember is that the objective of Buddhism is not worshiping gods. The objective of Buddhism is realizing the real nature of all existence--and by doing so freeing oneself from suffering. While doing that helping others do the same--thus the vow to save all sentient beings.

Pureland is an interesting school.

Upon first take and understanding, it would certainly appear in a way that pureland is a dieitisic practice and I suspect that's the intention.

Eventually there is a transitioning towards an eventual passing and dissipation of such perspectives and through volution allows dietification to muster true form, naturally and subsequently, relegated as imagery on the walls and paving the way towards illumination.

I think it's around and structured to help those incouragable and unable to let go of such beliefs and convictions in a way that one can comfortably be enabled and let go any fears and apprehension, allowing one's theism and associated conviction to settle and pass as with all things. Entering the Pureland.

It's a good school for those who, because of strong belief, cannot effectively deal or benefit from conventional forms of Buddhist practices.

 

[Thumper]

We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha`s own words must be rejected. ~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama

 

[crossfire]

Like others have said, Buddhism has some of the Hindu deities and Tibetan Buddhism has added some local deities. To some Buddhists deities are important. Some forms of Buddhism, such as Pure Land, even depend on deities--if you consider Amitaba Buddha a deity. Many Buddhists see Kuan Yin (Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva) like a god--many do but I'm not saying that is right.

I'm not big on deities, but this is how I see it. Worshiping/adoring someone or a deity that is enlightened--that is a buddha or bodhisattva--might have a positive affect on a person. The buddha or bodhisattva is an ideal Buddhist and a role model. Focusing on a buddha or bodhisattva can also be a form of meditation, if it's done with single mindedness.

The important thing to remember is that the objective of Buddhism is not worshiping gods. The objective of Buddhism is realizing the real nature of all existence--and by doing so freeing oneself from suffering. While doing that helping others do the same--thus the vow to save all sentient beings.

Pure Land often employs Tariki, as compared to Jiriki.

 

[crossfire]

Zen is a Mahayana school. There are no dieities.

How many times have you been accused of being hinayana instead of Mahayana? I've lost count over how many times I've been accused of it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How many times have you been accused of being hinayana instead of Mahayana? I've lost count over how many times I've been accused of it.

Only just because I enjoy the writings of Buddhadasa Bikkhu I think. *grin* Oftentimes a contentious use of the term too involving these types of comparisms albeit not here.

I suppose a quick study up on Chan, Rinzai and Soto would be just the cup of tea to help settle the stomach and clear some of the confusion associated with Mahayana and what it entails.

 

[LuisDantas]

If you want to study Buddhism with less emphasis on gods and deities, I would suggest you investigate Therevada (Southern) Buddhism, you're not really going to get far away from deities in Mahayana Buddhism.

Then again, those deities are rarely going out of their way to meddle into one's practice in the way that one would have to resign himself to expect in Christianity or Islaam either...

 

[Kartari]

Hi Marc,

Hi everyone!

I recently started attending a Tibetan Buddhist temple. I an atheist and so far I feel the two are not in conflict. My understanding is that Buddhism doesn't believe in a God ... which I don't either. Am I going to be disappointed and find out this is not the case?

Thanks
Marc

That's correct. Buddhism more broadly encompasses a wide plethora of schools, with varying beliefs and teachings. Though traditionally polytheistic, the vast majority of schools are non-theistic at their core. Meaning, the belief in, or worship of, gods is at best ancillary to the understanding or actual practice. Though there is certainly a healthy portion of supernatural content to it, Tibetan Buddhism fits within this understanding. I'd say that Zen and Theravada, generally speaking, are even less concerned with deities by comparison.

That said, I'd suggest going with your heart on this. Some traditions might suit you and your religious temperament better than others, but if you feel drawn to Tibetan Buddhism by all means explore it. I started with that as well many years ago, though I've since gravitated to a more eclectic approach that favors Zen and Theravadan teachings and practices in addition to Tibetan ones... I'm a bit odd in that I don't stick with one particular school of Buddhism.

I strongly suggest not only going with what makes the most sense to you presently, but to also research the broader spectrum of Buddhist schools. I could recommend several places to start, but perhaps Dr. Malcolm Eckel's Buddhism lecture series from the Great Courses (which can be found on sale periodically for $50 or $60 as an audio CD set, or as part of their new streaming subscription service if you get that) would be among the best for giving you a broad religious overview and historical background of the Buddhist traditions from a Western scholarly perspective.

Concerning Tibetan Buddhism more specifically, obviously the Dalai Lama's books are a prime suggestion. But I'd also highly recommend Awakening the Buddha Within by Lama Surya Das, who is a Westerner with a skilled and compelling writing style. He actually studied in Nepal under a Tibetan Lama of the Dzogchen sect for a few decades as I recall. He packs a tremendous amount of understanding and insight into Tibetan Buddhism in that book. It was among my first books many years ago introducing me to Buddhism, and I even met the man in person at a Barnes & Noble book signing when that book first came out nearly 20 years ago - I could tell he had a very good energy about him. Pema Chodron, a Tibetan nun, is another fantastic author and teacher whom I deeply respect and love.

Good luck!

 

[Kartari]

Hi Nowhere Man,

Only just because I enjoy the writings of Buddhadasa Bikkhu I think. *grin* Oftentimes a contentious use of the term too involving these types of comparisms albeit not here.

I suppose a quick study up on Chan, Rinzai and Soto would be just the cup of tea to help settle the stomach and clear some of the confusion associated with Mahayana and what it entails.

As you are probably aware (but I'll write it for the benefit of all readers), there are actually elements of both Mahayana and Theravada in Zen Buddhism. For instance, the strong espousal of taking both Theravadan and Mahayanist monks' vows by both Eisai and Dogen, Zen's most foundational Zen masters in Japan who in turn imported the idea from their Chan masters' traditions in China. Though Eisai was more eclectic in his Buddhism, Dogen and Eisai alike sought to reform Japanese Buddhism by discovering and importing what they considered more authentic Buddhist traditions and teachings from China.