Buddhism

[sayak83]

Forget the west. The west is irrelevant. Forget about translations also in that case. Just address the phrases I have given you. In the Pali language. Forget the English translation. Explain what they mean then. K?

dhikkhena, Deva, Yamaka, Brahma, Brahmanang. Are they all aliens? Just out of curiosity. Is that how you explain? No problem. SO they are alien beings. Do they have powers humans don't have? So bottomline is, you do say that Buddhism is not an atheistic philosophy, and you do say that there are other beings in different plains or Bhava's. Okay. No problem. I was looking for your view clearly. I never referred to this "western" God.



That's quite close really. Sahampathi means "the ruler of all" in simple terms. Congregation leader would be Sabhapathi. A much junior position, but close.

Well..you asked if Buddhism is a theistic or atheistic religion. Theism and atheism are western concepts related to the concept of "theos". Can such a question come up in the Indian context...no. Therefore if you ask a question that is tied to Western conceptions of God, then you will get answers related to the same, is it not?
Does Buddhism has devas and Brahmas. Yes. Does it have God(s)...that depends on what makes some entity a God and what concept you are bringing with you about God.

 

[crossfire]

Is there such a concept in Buddhism as objective consciousness, and can it be obtained by enlightened sentient beings?

Not that I have heard of. There are, however, mental objects.

Is this what is meant by Nirvana?

No. Nirvana is more like "abiding consciousness without feature" when all mental objects are cleared from the mind.

 

[firedragon]

Well..you asked if Buddhism is a theistic or atheistic religion. Theism and atheism are western concepts related to the concept of "theos".

OMG. Why are people obsessed with the west? We are using the English language. Just because we speak in English, that does not mean every thing is western.

And you are wrong. Theism is NOT a purely western concept. If you wish to make theos a western English word and can only refer to some western concept, mind you, theism is a word used all over the world for theologies. And in the study of theology, Hinduism is a big subject. In studies of Theology in the university, you could major in the Tanakh. It's middle eastern theology. You could also major in Buddhism. It's eastern. You can also study world religions including african and australian religions.

Does Buddhism has devas and Brahmas. Yes. Does it have God(s)...that depends on what makes some entity a God and what concept you are bringing with you about God.

No problem. Thank you very much for your comments. Thank you so much.

Cheers.

 

[crossfire]

That's irrelevant and some other theory.

Are you saying the Yamaka was deluded or his possessed human was deluded? Who was deluded?

Sayak brought in the Brahma Sahampathi right? Was he deluded? In Aayaachana Suttha?

Thanks.

Delusion is a Kilesa-Mara.

 

[firedragon]

Delusion is a Kilesa-Mara.

Really? Is that the response to the question? My God. I really can't understand why you just said that.

Crossfire. Some of the words on the internet are not to be taken so easily. Don't do that. At least have a doubt, and ask a question from someone to clear things up. Ahaththapaaso Maarassathi Kilesamaaraadhinang agochara. It's in a gathaa vannana, in visathi nipaatha called angulimala. I have already mentioned this story concisely in the OP. The question I asked was related to the specific chapter given by Sayak which was absolutely misrepresented and misunderstood. You have just done some kind of research and given an absolutely irrelevant statement I really cannot understand why.

Do you know what Mara means? When you say delusion what do you mean? Is it Musaa, moha, michchaagnana, maayaa. Which one? What is it that's associated with Kilesa Mara?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Not that I have heard of. There are, however, mental objects.

No. Nirvana is more like "abiding consciousness without feature" when all mental objects are cleared from the mind.

Okay. Could we say then, that in Buddhism
an objective view of reality would be a view of emptiness ? Or words to that effect?

 

[crossfire]

Okay. Could we say then, that in Buddhism
an objective view of reality would be a view of emptiness ? Or words to that effect?

One could say that an objective view of reality is one empty of dualistic like-dislike perceptive bias. (See the Hsin Hsin Ming.)

 

[firedragon]

Okay. Could we say then, that in Buddhism
an objective view of reality would be a view of emptiness ? Or words to that effect?

Nirvana or Nibbana means a "putting out of a fire" as an example. It ends all pain or soka paridhdha waanang or sadness. It ends all "profit". Laabha nansatthanan. The state of Nibbana is called Labha Anutthi which means the state where you will not express profit.

Objective Consciousness is not really in the core teachings of Buddhism, but of course it could be conceptualised as achievable by anyone who has attained nibbana. I think the answer is "of course". But that is in Theravadha Buddhism. I don't know much about Mahayana Buddhism, but I do know that in these Chi Gong camps people claim that they experienced it physically, not just in the mind. I think that even a person who is said to have achieved a sovan position could have objective consciousness.

Interesting.

I am sure Mahayana Buddhism teaches this, but I have not much knowledge on Mahayana.

 

[crossfire]

Really? Is that the response to the question? My God. I really can't understand why you just said that.

As a prompt to focus on processes instead of objects. I could have just answered "mu" in the classic Zen fashion, but you have stated that you don't understand Mahayana very well and wouldn't understand the need to reframe the question from just answering "mu."

"All phenomena are empty of Self." Focus on the processes instead of objects. Emptiness is well stressed in Mahayana, so apply it to your framing if you want to understand Mahayana.

 

[firedragon]

As a prompt to focus on processes instead of objects. I could have just answered "mu" in the classic Zen fashion, but you have stated that you don't understand Mahayana very well and wouldn't understand the need to reframe the question from just answering "mu."

true. I don't understand Mahayana well. Core concepts were cleared and taught to me by @sun rise so I learned a bit.

BUT, you are misquoting the Tipitaka, and making some nonsensical statements at irrelevant places, and are not responding to a single question objectively. It's strange to me because this is not some Buddhism vs other religions debate where you have to defend anything, it's just a discussion to understand further.

Crossfire. Mu is like a prefix to a word to negate it. Like "A" in Pali. Or in sanskrit. "A" negates what's coming. Like Agosha is not loud. Every tom, dick and harry knows this.

This is not a relevant answer to any question I asked.

The last (Last) question I asked was "
Do you know what Mara means? When you say delusion what do you mean? Is it Musaa, moha, michchaagnana, maayaa. Which one? What is it that's associated with Kilesa Mara?"

#65

How is "Mu" an answer to that?

 

[crossfire]

true. I don't understand Mahayana well. Core concepts were cleared and taught to me by @sun rise so I learned a bit.

BUT, you are misquoting the Tipitaka, and making some nonsensical statements at irrelevant places, and are not responding to a single question objectively. It's strange to me because this is not some Buddhism vs other religions debate where you have to defend anything, it's just a discussion to understand further.

Crossfire. Mu is like a prefix to a word to negate it. Like "A" in Pali. Or in sanskrit. "A" negates what's coming. Like Agosha is not loud. Every tom, dick and harry knows this.

This is not a relevant answer to any question I asked.

The last (Last) question I asked was "
Do you know what Mara means? When you say delusion what do you mean? Is it Musaa, moha, michchaagnana, maayaa. Which one? What is it that's associated with Kilesa Mara?"

#65

How is "Mu" an answer to that?

See my edit to post 70

 

[Twilight Hue]

Don't mind me. Just sticking my head through the door.

 

[crossfire]

Don't mind me. Just sticking my head through the door.

Right on time, with the epic signature line of "It's not the bullet that kills you........ It's the hole". -Laurie Anderson -

 

[Twilight Hue]

Right on time, with the epic signature line of "It's not the bullet that kills you........ It's the hole". -Laurie Anderson -

Dont tell anybody, but that hole is reportably bigger than originally thought.

 

[sun rise]

true. I don't understand Mahayana well. Core concepts were cleared and taught to me by @sun rise so I learned a bit.

I hope I did not confuse the difference between Zen and Tibetan Buddhists. This is a classic from the Japanese zen branch:

“One day a man of the people said to Zen Master Ikkyu: “Master, will you please write for me some maxims of the highest wisdom?” Ikkyu immediately took his brush and wrote the word “Attention.” “Is that all?” asked the man. “Will you not add something more?” Ikkyu then wrote twice running: “Attention. Attention.” “Well,” remarked the man rather irritably, “I really don’t see much depth or subtlety in what you have just written.” Then Ikkyu wrote the same word three times running: “Attention. Attention. Attention.” Half angered, the man demanded: “What does that word ‘Attention’ mean anyway?” And Ikkyu answered gently: “Attention means attention.”

Tibetan Buddhism has elements of the local pre-buddhist religions and is called "vajrayana" I suggest this as a good intro: Intro to Tibetan Buddhism

 

[firedragon]

I hope I did not confuse the difference between Zen and Tibetan Buddhists. This is a classic from the Japanese zen branch:

No you didn't. I clarified. Thanks a lot.