Buddhists: Why the emphasis on not enjoying the pleasures of the senses?

[Rinchen]

Transmission is out of my reach. But should I interpret that as a path to change your mind so you change your life/world?



The problem is, every path has things I don't like or can't accept.

If transmission is out of your reach, then simply start from where you are, start practicing Samatha and read what you can. No need to jump into anything. Evaluate your predicament and get to know your situation. Be honest with you self as to why your confused and why your having a hard time picking a path. See if it's self imposed limitations and confusion.

As for the last part, is that a problem with the path or with you?

 

[ajay0]

Why so much emphasis on not enjoying the pleasures of the senses? Is it because the ones who wrote the sutras were monks and didn't want any distractions?

This reminded me of insightful sayings of Osho and Jiddu Krishnamurti with respect to this query....

As we descend deeper into subtleties, we will have to drop our attachment to excitement. There is a place inside which is devoid of any excitement, which the Buddha has called Shunya, the void.

It has been called a void because no excitement exists there. And until you have had an experience of this, you will not be able to experience bliss at all.

Now try to understand the difference: happiness is born out of sensation, and bliss is born out of non-sensation. In happiness there is a friction involved; in bliss there is a void, peace.

That is why, in the search for happiness, every happiness turns into a suffering - because you need a greater and greater sensation of happiness. Today a woman appears to be beautiful, but after being with her for a few days she no longer appears to be so beautiful. After being with her for a few more days you will need an even more beautiful woman, because your senses have in the meantime become used to that level of arousal - so now you need a greater stimulus.

With experience excitement dies - that is why happiness turns into suffering. That which you have not yet experienced still appears to promise happiness, but when you get it, the same experience becomes suffering. The moment you have it, it becomes unhappiness. Happiness becomes unhappiness because the experience of excitement demands a greater and greater stimulus. And with each experience your sensitivity goes on decreasing until a time comes when you cannot experience anything, because all your senses have become completely dull, they have all become numb. And then you begin your search for the ultimate experience.

-- Osho

Truth comes into being when gratification, the desire for sensation, comes to an end.
-- Jiddu Krishnamurti

All intellectual and sensory gratification leaves one unfulfilled, which one can understand directly from personal experience. But we still continue to grasp at all sources of gratification around us to escape the sense of emptiness within, so as to hold on to an illusory sense of imagined self, thus perpetuating the source of all psychological suffering.

The peace and joy of mindfulness or present moment awareness is far superior to the transient sense-pleasures which is subject to saturation or impermanence. But not realizing this, we still keep on habitually craving for objective pleasures to gain a sense of egoic continuity.

It is for this reason abstinence from sensory pleasures as an austerity had been recommended by monks, and in all other religious traditions, so as to break off from the habitual indulgence in them and purify consciousness of its psychological content of likes and dislikes.

 

[agorman]

All intellectual and sensory gratification leaves one unfulfilled

I don't know why people insist on that point of view, when it's not true. I know of people who do have fulfilled lives. They are few and as they live on a physical plane with physical bodies, that imposes some limitations; but I don't see many rich people complaining for their fortune.

That's one of the things that make me suspicious of main religions like Buddhism and Hinduism and the Right Hand Path; trying to convince the poor to conform with their poverty, since wealth won't supposedly make them truly happy.

Anyway the branch of Hinduism I liked the most is the worship of Rama, since the devotee supposedly gets both material and spiritual benefits. And the final goal is not a state of pure consciousness (unless the devotee asks for it) but Ayodhya, the paradise of Rama.

I think it's much better an endless parade of one temporary pleasure after another (a dynamic well-being), than the "eternal peace" (death!?) advocated by some religions. Some supposedly enlightened masters think the same.

Rinchen Samphel, I considered meditating with buddhist mantras, but universal compassion is not my thing (too many bad people on this wild world). So these days I'm just trying to manage with my own higher self; in my own path (no "isms" for now). I may recourse to Odin as a master, since Grandpa seems to want to be with me.

 

[ajay0]

I don't know why people insist on that point of view, when it's not true. I know of people who do have fulfilled lives. They are few and as they live on a physical plane with physical bodies, that imposes some limitations; but I don't see many rich people complaining for their fortune.

There is nothing wrong with being rich. 'Being rich' guilty complexes are a part of Abrahamic conditioning.

I only stated that all intellectual and sensory gratifications still leaves one unsatisfied due to saturation or due to the factor of impermanence of the body-mind complex or sensory pleasure objects.


If there are intellectual and sensory pleasures which leaves one satisfied, blissful and happy all our lives, you can name it to me. I will be more than happy to get some of that.

That's one of the things that make me suspicious of main religions like Buddhism and Hinduism and the Right Hand Path; trying to convince the poor to conform with their poverty, since wealth won't supposedly make them truly happy.

I am not aware of Buddhism or Hinduism stating its adherents to be necessarily poor, other than during periods of austerity.

A healthy blend of spiritualism and materialism is what is recommended by these philosophies.

Inordinate attachment to wealth however increases man's attachment to sensory pleasures and reinforces his illusory self due to the factors of pride, social attention, increased power to lead his life according to his emotional likes and dislikes which earlier he would have just ignored, and hence greater expression of his psychological personality which is more often than not ugly. This is why the rich and powerful are usually parodied in art and literature.

 

[agorman]

There is nothing wrong with being rich. 'Being rich' guilty complexes are a part of Abrahamic conditioning.

When you tell people that wealth is not bad, but renunciation is better, they will indirectly feel guilty because they're not monks or poor. "Oh I'm not as saint as that guy that left everything and went to the woods to meditate".

I only stated that all intellectual and sensory gratifications still leaves one unsatisfied due to saturation or due to the factor of impermanence of the body-mind complex or sensory pleasure objects.

If there are intellectual and sensory pleasures which leaves one satisfied, blissful and happy all our lives, you can name it to me. I will be more than happy to get some of that.

e.g. I never get "saturated" of riding my bicycle. Does Tiger Woods get tired of golf? In that case he could become a fan of another sport. So many other examples... Maybe you can get tired of living with the same woman after many years and divorce, but can you really get "saturated" of feeling love?

In a paradisiacal afterlife planet such as Goloka or Ayodhya you wouldn't have to worry about a "body-mind complex" and new sensory pleasure objects would always be available. About "impermanence", those objects would last what they have to last... nothing less, nothing more.

I am not aware of Buddhism or Hinduism stating its adherents to be necessarily poor, other than during periods of austerity.

A healthy blend of spiritualism and materialism is what is recommended by these philosophies

Well at least Hinduism mentions "kama" and "artha" as one of the goals of life, but what about Buddhism?

Inordinate attachment to wealth however increases man's attachment to sensory pleasures and reinforces his illusory self due to the factors of pride, social attention, increased power to lead his life according to his emotional likes and dislikes which earlier he would have just ignored, and hence greater expression of his psychological personality which is more often than not ugly. This is why the rich and powerful are usually parodied in art and literature.

That's right, obsession with wealth is not good; I agree... But it's funny, because most of the ones that make those parodies are wealthy and famous.

 

[ajay0]

When you tell people that wealth is not bad, but renunciation is better, they will indirectly feel guilty because they're not monks or poor. "Oh I'm not as saint as that guy that left everything and went to the woods to meditate".

Renunciation here means non-attachment to all that which is perishable.

There are many householders who attained enlightenment like the ancient king Janaka, Prem Nirmal, Lahiri Mahasaya, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Adyashanti, Robert Adams, Dada Gavand, Barry Long, Byron Katie, Metta Zetty, Jean Klein, Rupert Spire, Mooji and so on.

e.g. I never get "saturated" of riding my bicycle. Does Tiger Woods get tired of golf? In that case he could become a fan of another sport. So many other examples... Maybe you can get tired of living with the same woman after many years and divorce, but can you really get "saturated" of feeling love?.

Well, I talked of impermanence as well. Would your body be strong enough at old age as well, with arthritis and parkinsons , cancer and so on to ride a bike and enjoy the countryside without being confined to an old age home with rough and ugly nurses !

In a paradisiacal afterlife planet such as Goloka or Ayodhya you wouldn't have to worry about a "body-mind complex" and new sensory pleasure objects would always be available. About "impermanence", those objects would last what they have to last... nothing less, nothing more..

Even so called astral planets have a shelf period and after the good karma ends, you will have to come out of it, as per the scriptures which deal with the afterlife.

Well at least Hinduism mentions "kama" and "artha" as one of the goals of life, but what about Buddhism?

It is the mindful or aware one who enjoys the pleasures of material life without getting entangled in it.

That's right, obsession with wealth is not good; I agree... But it's funny, because most of the ones that make those parodies are wealthy and famous.

They became wealthy and famous after creating the parodies. Voltaire and Bernard Shaw sprung from the middle class.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This reminded me of insightful sayings of Osho and Jiddu Krishnamurti with respect to this query....






All intellectual and sensory gratification leaves one unfulfilled, which one can understand directly from personal experience. But we still continue to grasp at all sources of gratification around us to escape the sense of emptiness within, so as to hold on to an illusory sense of imagined self, thus perpetuating the source of all psychological suffering.

The peace and joy of mindfulness or present moment awareness is far superior to the transient sense-pleasures which is subject to saturation or impermanence. But not realizing this, we still keep on habitually craving for objective pleasures to gain a sense of egoic continuity.

It is for this reason abstinence from sensory pleasures as an austerity had been recommended by monks, and in all other religious traditions, so as to break off from the habitual indulgence in them and purify consciousness of its psychological content of likes and dislikes.

What a load of horse****.

 

[agorman]

What a load of horse****.

Nowhere Man, why do you think that's horse****? Please elaborate.

Renunciation here means non-attachment to all that which is perishable.

The only way you can totally detach yourself from everything that is not the true self, is by entering in a state of pure consciousness. Something like a true death, or sleeping forever.

I wonder if that's also the final goal of Pure Land Buddhism. They seem to point more to just becoming an enlightened being. Although does an enlightened being choose to create objects to enjoy of them? Who knows. I know Krishna does.

Well, I talked of impermanence as well. Would your body be strong enough at old age as well, with arthritis and parkinsons , cancer and so on to ride a bike and enjoy the countryside without being confined to an old age home with rough and ugly nurses !

Why would I get old? Ageing is up to you really.

Try this: Every night look into the mirror, into your eyes and repeat 9 times "I am perfection" or "I am eternal youth" and see what happens in a few weeks. Maybe less. This world is an illusion, your body is an illusion and you should be able to change this illusion as you wish. Easier said than done, I know.

Even so called astral planets have a shelf period and after the good karma ends, you will have to come out of it, as per the scriptures which deal with the afterlife.

Supposedly, Vishnu's planets are not like those of other gods. They're eternal and not subject to karma.

It is the mindful or aware one who enjoys the pleasures of material life without getting entangled in it.

With "entangled" you mean obsessed?

They became wealthy and famous after creating the parodies. Voltaire and Bernard Shaw sprung from the middle class.

So in the end they became part of the high class they've made fun of. That's sad. Voltaire came down from my pedestal after I read he was racist. Although that could be understood by the ignorance of his time.

 

[ajay0]

The only way you can totally detach yourself from everything that is not the true self, is by entering in a state of pure consciousness. Something like a true death, or sleeping forever.

Most people associate the void or emptiness with the unconsciousness of death, which is just assumption.

For those who had experienced it, it is life at its highest expression of consciousness, peace and joy which no sense-pleasure can hope to match.

Although does an enlightened being choose to create objects to enjoy of them? Who knows. I know Krishna does.

An enlightened being has no need for external objects for happiness as he or she is content within. Krishna was more of an enlightened master who taught by example that the highest spiritual bliss and material pleasures can co-exist harmoniously.

Why would I get old? Ageing is up to you really.

Try this: Every night look into the mirror, into your eyes and repeat 9 times "I am perfection" or "I am eternal youth" and see what happens in a few weeks. Maybe less. This world is an illusion, your body is an illusion and you should be able to change this illusion as you wish. Easier said than done, I know.

Ageing is inevitable for everyone. Yesterday's film stars look like sorry parodies today. Look at the likes of Stallone and Schwarzenegger. One feels sorry for them these days seeing their efforts to look macho and impress people. Identification with the deterioriating body-mind complex is a formula for suffering but one still identifies with it due to its association with sense-pleasure through psychological memory.

Supposedly, Vishnu's planets are not like those of other gods. They're eternal and not subject to karma.

Then it would mean the state of Nirvana. Otherwise it is just fantasy and imagination.

With "entangled" you mean obsessed?

See material pleasures are great if you reserve the power to enjoy them and detach from it . If the ability to detach from it is not there, it amounts to attachment and emotional slavery. This is how addictions and conflicts start at an inner and outer level with the resultant suffering.

Here detachment ought to spring from investigative awareness or mindfulness.

As Dzogchen stated, ' The Great Perfection is non conceptual awareness.'

So in the end they became part of the high class they've made fun of. That's sad. Voltaire came down from my pedestal after I read he was racist. Although that could be understood by the ignorance of his time.

When he was an emperor, Napoleon advocated slavery as well as he felt it was good economics. Later when he was a pow in St. Helena, he was quite considerate and respectful of the slaves working there.

It is human nature to be inconsiderate and callous when one is in a position of strength and power. When fortunes reverse, consideration and sensitivity comes up.

This is a constant theme in literature and cinema as well.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. trying to convince the poor to conform with their poverty, since wealth won't supposedly make them truly happy.

Anyway the branch of Hinduism I liked the most is the worship of Rama, since the devotee supposedly gets both material and spiritual benefits. And the final goal is not a state of pure consciousness (unless the devotee asks for it) but Ayodhya, the paradise of Rama.

I think it's much better an endless parade of one temporary pleasure after another (a dynamic well-being), than the "eternal peace" (death!?) advocated by some religions. Some supposedly enlightened masters think the same.

Rinchen Samphel, I considered meditating with buddhist mantras, but universal compassion is not my thing (too many bad people on this wild world). So these days I'm just trying to manage with my own higher self; in my own path (no "isms" for now). I may recourse to Odin as a master, since Grandpa seems to want to be with me.

Who tells you that? To improve one's financial position is 'dharma'. And 'Artha' is one of the four purusharthas. In one well-said verses (subhash-itani) they said 'Dhanat dharmam, tatah sukham' (With money you can fulfill your responsibilities and will he happier). What is depreciated is being tied to the idea of earning more and more through even through evil deeds, i.e., being attached to money. That will bring unhappiness. What happens if the share market suddenly crashes? That is the meaning of 'samata', equanimity. Happy in wealth and happy in poverty too. Such a person can never be unhappy.

I am an strong atheist and a 'Rama' bhakta, because Rama was epitome of 'dharma'. So I bow to 'Rama'. Death is not eternal peace. Eternal peace is understanding life and dharma. One who has done that is always happy in life (being an atheist, I do not believe in Gods, soul, reincarnation, heaven or hell).

I think, even Buddha did not stop you for fighting injustice. It all depends on circumstances.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nowhere Man, why do you think that's horse****? Please elaborate.

Setting all the "Hinduistic" gibberish that your passing on here through a Buddhist forum not unlike the product manifesting from a horses business end as such a steed happily trots obliviously onward, for which "polishing a turd" seems to be quite the distraction itself I think.

One could however, regard inherent emptiness by which those wonderful sensations and fragrances of the senses first come about as a person carefully steps over, around and on underfoot. Yuk.

To understand why monastic avoidances are there, all one has to do is sit respectively and it comes about as to why concerning the bells and whistles, and of course, turds.

 

[ajay0]

Setting all the "Hinduistic" gibberish that your passing on here through a Buddhist forum not unlike the product manifesting from a horses business end as such a steed happily trots obliviously onward, for which "polishing a turd" seems to be quite the distraction itself I think.

Krishnamurti refused to subscribe to any religious belief or ideology. Most of his teachings however has been considered similar to Buddhism by Buddhists themselves.

Osho's philosophy of Zorba the Buddha is also quite similar to Buddhism as per the meditative, philosophical and ritualistic aspects, and he too spoke about Buddha's Shunya or void as shown above.

As per the Dalai Lama, ""Osho is an enlightened master who is working with all possibilities to help humanity overcome a difficult phase in developing consciousness."

If their insights can help one understand Buddhism better due to better articulation, it can be employed to do so.

Setting all the "Hinduistic" gibberish that your passing on here through a Buddhist forum not unlike the product manifesting from a horses business end as such a steed happily trots obliviously onward, for which "polishing a turd" seems to be quite the distraction itself I think.

One could however, regard inherent emptiness by which those wonderful sensations and fragrances of the senses first come about as a person carefully steps over, around and on underfoot. Yuk.

To understand why monastic avoidances are there, all one has to do is sit respectively and it comes about as to why concerning the bells and whistles, and of course, turds.

Turds make good manure and grows plants and crops which we eat, and without which life is impossible.

So turds do have an intrinsic value of their own as is anything else in existence. Trouble is we kind of personalize it with our emotions, likes and dislikes,cravings and aversions, and mentally project it as disgusting , when in impersonal reality it is just what it is, digested food.

Everyone loves food but hates it when it gets digested, not noticing that we are alive because of it.

The human body is also just the matter formed from food, and as long as it is alive, it is adorable.

But when it is dead and starts stinking a few hours later, everyone is in a hurry to get rid of it.

 

[Rinchen]

Krishnamurti refused to subscribe to any religious belief or ideology. Most of his teachings however has been considered similar to Buddhism by Buddhists themselves.

Osho's philosophy of Zorba the Buddha is also quite similar to Buddhism as per the meditative, philosophical and ritualistic aspects, and he too spoke about Buddha's Shunya or void as shown above.

Krishnamurti isn't Buddhist, and nor are a lot of the concepts being explained throughout this thread. More New Age and Neo Advaita than Buddhism.

Oshos emptiness is not at all what the Buddha taught, don't confuse the two.

 

[crossfire]

Setting all the "Hinduistic" gibberish that your passing on here through a Buddhist forum not unlike the product manifesting from a horses business end as such a steed happily trots obliviously onward, for which "polishing a turd" seems to be quite the distraction itself I think.

One could however, regard inherent emptiness by which those wonderful sensations and fragrances of the senses first come about as a person carefully steps over, around and on underfoot. Yuk.

To understand why monastic avoidances are there, all one has to do is sit respectively and it comes about as to why concerning the bells and whistles, and of course, turds.

I think the problem started when agorman said this:

The problem is, every path has things I don't like or can't accept.

Non-Buddhists might have taken this as an invitation for alternatives to Buddhism.

 

[crossfire]

Transmission is out of my reach. But should I interpret that as a path to change your mind so you change your life/world?



The problem is, every path has things I don't like or can't accept.

When looking for the path for you, I would suggest starting with transforming the three poisons of greed, hatred, and delusion into more useful processes. Reject any path that preaches greed, hatred, or delusion, no matter how much pretzel logic they may employ to try to justify it. Look for areas within your mind that are unsatisfactory, observe how the unsatisfactory states arise. Observe how the unsatisfactory states cease. Then build a plan of practice/transformation based on your observations to change the unsatisfactoriness. Generate desire and excitement to fuel your efforts in ending the unsatisfactoriness you find within your mind for quicker and more effective results.

If you don't like this or can't accept these basics, then what exactly are you looking for?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Krishnamurti refused to subscribe to any religious belief or ideology. Most of his teachings however has been considered similar to Buddhism by Buddhists themselves.

Osho's philosophy of Zorba the Buddha is also quite similar to Buddhism as per the meditative, philosophical and ritualistic aspects, and he too spoke about Buddha's Shunya or void as shown above.

As per the Dalai Lama, ""Osho is an enlightened master who is working with all possibilities to help humanity overcome a difficult phase in developing consciousness."

If their insights can help one understand Buddhism better due to better articulation, it can be employed to do so.

Turds make good manure and grows plants and crops which we eat, and without which life is impossible.

So turds do have an intrinsic value of their own as is anything else in existence. Trouble is we kind of personalize it with our emotions, likes and dislikes,cravings and aversions, and mentally project it as disgusting , when in impersonal reality it is just what it is, digested food.

Everyone loves food but hates it when it gets digested, not noticing that we are alive because of it.

The human body is also just the matter formed from food, and as long as it is alive, it is adorable.

But when it is dead and starts stinking a few hours later, everyone is in a hurry to get rid of it.

One peculiar thing about Buddhism thats highly effective, involves directness and straightforwardness in the manner by which a person practices in traditional or untraditional settings. It's always practiced in real time.

Avoidance of sensory Indulgence's in monastic settings are designed in a way that various issues manifest quickly to the forefront through the deprivation of those Indulgence's for which , as a result, becomes quickly noticed, garnering direct insight as to how all this comes about and the manner by which such things arise.

It's essentially trading off extremes of excessiveness for the extremes of deprivation, and not clinging to whatever effects come about, making it less distracting. Not to mention recognition and application of the Middle Way when circumstances and conditions suddenly change like going from a lay to a monastic environment without suffering the detriment of clinging.

 

[Rinchen]

Rinchen Samphel, I considered meditating with buddhist mantras, but universal compassion is not my thing (too many bad people on this wild world). So these days I'm just trying to manage with my own higher self; in my own path (no "isms" for now).

That looks like more of a reason to give birth to compassion than a reason to abandon it.

I tried the path of no "isms", it can hardly be considered a spiritual path, more like stagnant water than a living path. Once you fully commit yourself to a path a lot of your confusion will dissapear.

 

[agorman]

For those who had experienced it, it is life at its highest expression of consciousness, peace and joy which no sense-pleasure can hope to match.

I beg you pardon, but that sounds like you want to achieve an eternal orgasm. 100% joy, the whole time? I think it would be unbalanced. I once felt something close to that, after only hearing 5 repetitions of the Gayatri mantra. At the time I was a Krishna devotee and I thank him for bringing me back into normal. That feeling of constant joy was interfering with everything! I don't know how to describe it... maybe like a constant inner smile.

An enlightened being has no need for external objects for happiness as he or she is content within.

That's the same as if someone would recommend me to masturbate instead of depending on "external women".

So you want no love, no interaction with other people... that's sad. It's like you are afraid to enjoy life. And I mean LIFE, whether here or after the death of the physical body.

Ageing is inevitable for everyone.

No it's not. The Buddha, wanting more time to teach, supposedly enlarged his lifespan to 80 years, when most people lived half that time.

Identification with the deterioriating body-mind complex is a formula for suffering

I didn't say we should think we are a body. I said it's possible to avoid ageing. As many other things are possible when you change your mind. Many Buddhists believe supernatural powers will eventually come when you meditate for a long time. What kind of enlightened person would you be without being able to achieve power over your physical body and your environment?

Then it would mean the state of Nirvana. Otherwise it is just fantasy and imagination.

The eternal enjoyment of Krishna's pastimes aren't imagination, according to some scriptures. I've once heard from a friend the Srimad Bhagavatam describes them. Maybe enjoying a paradise for millions of years is out of the comprehension of limited human minds, but it doesn't mean it's impossible.

See material pleasures are great if you reserve the power to enjoy them and detach from it .

You can either enjoy them or you detach from them. How can you do both? Unless you are talking about a moderate attachment. e.g. Enjoying a glass of wine instead of swallowing the whole bottle.

Happy in wealth and happy in poverty too. Such a person can never be unhappy.

Come on! No person can be happy when hungry or cold because of poverty.

I am an strong atheist and a 'Rama' bhakta

I never understood this from you. Who's Rama to you if you're an Atheist? Just a feel-good character from a kids tale?

I think, even Buddha did not stop you for fighting injustice. It all depends on circumstances.

I'm beginning to realize that almost everyone I meet says something different about the Buddha. My experience from what thoughts (I believe) I received from the Buddha is that he wasn't agree with injustice, but he wanted me to abandon feelings of hatred. The problem is you can't destroy those who cause injustices if you don't have a little of hatred in you. It gives you a lot of battle determination.

what exactly are you looking for?

Maybe for a religion that doesn't exist: One that doesn't force me to behave well with the bad guys. One that doesn't manipulate me into becoming a sheep. One that doesn't force me to accept a culture that I don't feel identified with. One in which I can grow and become wiser and more powerful. One in which I'm the god or at least, the gods help me free the god that I already am. One that doesn't repress my wish for enjoying life. One that doesn't want to impose me the ideas that I am everything or I am nothing, when Krishna taught me once in a trance that we are eternal individuals. "Every man and woman is a star"; at least in that statement Crowley was right.

I thought maybe Satanism was for me, but seems Satan is not very eager to be with me. Or I didn't understand the dark afterlife place that I would end up going to, if I'm his follower. I believe he did warn me that his path was too gloomy for me. Besides, so much darkness is only for those who can really control their minds and free themselves of any lack of self-esteem. Otherwise it can become self-destructive.

Luckily I'm beginning to feel the same love for Norse culture than for the Celtic one and I feel some Norse gods approached to me. So I thought I could say I'm Ásatrú, but Ásatrú people don't want to accept my belief that gods are powerful ghosts of ancient aliens. So let's say nowadays I accept the guidance and protection of Norse gods (and maybe some gift, who knows) while managing with the capabilities of my higher self.

Reject any path that preaches greed, hatred, or delusion

What do you understand as "greed"? If it's about doing evil things for money, I'm agree with you.

Hatred? It depends. It can give you a motivation to eliminate destructive people such as dictators and terrorists.

That looks like more of a reason to give birth to compassion than a reason to abandon it.

I didn't say some bad people aren't ready for rehabilitation. But some like Kim Jong-Un, Maduro, Erdogan and many others aren't worth the death of innocent people to get them out of power. Better if they die instead. More than 100 people died in Venezuela so far because they protested against Maduro. Those deaths shouldn't have ever happened. Leaving someone like Maduro and his thugs alive is not having compassion for their victims. It's not politically correct to say some people should be killed for others to survive, but unfortunately it's always been the truth of this tough world.

I tried the path of no "isms", it can hardly be considered a spiritual path, more like stagnant water than a living path. Once you fully commit yourself to a path a lot of your confusion will dissapear.

The problem with fully committing myself to a path is, I'd have to fully commit to all of a group of other people's beliefs. And let's be honest, even though someone says "I'm Catholic" or "I'm Buddhist" nobody really accepts everything in their religion, except for fundamentalists.

 

[crossfire]

What do you understand as "greed"? If it's about doing evil things for money, I'm agree with you.

Hatred? It depends. It can give you a motivation to eliminate destructive people such as dictators and terrorists.

Doing evil things for money would definitely fall within this category. Scapegoating out of hatred would also fall within this category, as it would only lead to more hatred. So would also the delusion that blood sacrifice will solve anything instead of leading towards further delusion.
Specifically, greed, hatred, and delusion that overcome your mind, especially greed hatred or delusion as groupthink, which can overcome your individual capacity for reasoned thought.

 

[ajay0]

Krishnamurti isn't Buddhist, and nor are a lot of the concepts being explained throughout this thread. More New Age and Neo Advaita than Buddhism.

It's true that Krishnamurti was not Buddhist. He was a Buddha himself.

Let's not forget that Buddhism was meant to create Buddha's, not Buddhists.

Oshos emptiness is not at all what the Buddha taught, don't confuse the two.

Shunya or void as per Osho is the same as the Buddha's. Would be interested in knowing what you think are the features which separate them !