Bugging the Hell Out of Me..

[DallasApple]

Did God order Abraham to KILL,MURDER his son?

And the fact Abraham was willing to do it satisfied God?

And so God stopped him..Sure he did..

But Abraham was considred the most faithful of servant that he would KILL and MURDER his own son to satisfy God..God was PLEASED that Abraham would in fact KILL if God told him too..Abraham loved God..so much he would sacrifice MURDER his child..And God was happy that Abraham would in fact KILL MURDER his own child..

Whats up with that?

Love

Dallas

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, that always bothered me too. People act like it was a "beautiful" thing. But when you have crazies in the news who microwaved their babies because they believe god told them to, it's not so beautiful anymore. Also, what if Satan posing as God told Abraham to kill his son, but of course didn't stop him when he tried to do so? Abraham would've had committed murder by doing what he thought was God's will when it was actually Satan's will. See how foolish blind devotion and adherence could be? To anyone with any sense of morality would know such an act would be evil, regardless of who is requesting it. I mean, if god were evil, would people really still follow him regardless just because he's god?

Luckily, people can still believe in a benevolent god without having to believe all the silly stuff tribal goat herders from the bronze age have attributed to him.

 

[McBell]

What of the Human Sacrifice that God not only allowed but accepted:

Judges 11:29 -39 (KJV)
Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.
And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.
And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.
And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.
And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man...​

 

[dawny0826]

My mother told me something that has stuck with me. I questioned how God could take children from their parents...whether through illness, accident or as a mere test of faith. My mother said that our children really don't belong to us. They're given to us as a gift from God, to raise and love but they belong first and foremost to God, as we do.

This perspective softens Abraham's story for me. I believe that first and foremost, God was testing Abraham's faithfulness. No doubt, he delighted in Abraham's obedience and loyalty...his willingness to give back something as precious as his child.

But he didn't have to go through with it. And that, in my opinion, is proof that yes, God requests our loyalty and obedience and even if He places harsh lessons in front of us, He loves us no less.

 

[Katzpur]

I loved your comments, Dawny. They reminded me of something my favorite LDS Apostle said a few years back. He was comparing the sacrifice Abraham almost had to make with the sacrifice our Father in Heaven actually did make in sacrificing His Only Begotten Son for the sins of mankind. This Apostle described the anguish Abraham must have been going through and then said this:

“Our Father in Heaven went through all that and more for in his case the hand was not stayed. He loved his Son, Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, and yet he allowed [Him] to descend from His place of glory and honor, where millions did Him homage, down to the earth, a condescension that is not within the power of man to conceive. He came to receive the insult, the abuse, and the crown of thorns. God heard the cry of His Son in that moment of great grief and agony in the garden when, it is said, the pores of his body opened and drops of blood stood upon him, and he cried out: ‘Father, if Thou be willing remove his cup from me.’

I ask you, what father and mother could stand by and listen to the cry of their [child] in distress, and not render aid and assistance? But in the case of our Father, the knife was not stayed, but it fell, and the life’s blood of His beloved Son went out. [The] Father looked on with great grief and agony over His Beloved Son, until there seems to have come a moment when even our Savior cried out in despair: My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?’

In that hour I think I can see our dear Father behind the veil looking upon these dying struggles until even He could not endure it any longer, and like the mother who bids farewell to her dying child, has to be taken out of the room, so as not to look upon the last struggles, so He bowed His head, and hid in some part of His universe, He great heart almost breaking for the love that He had for His Son.”

 

[Charity]

The whole story with Abraham was the fact that God was testing his obedience.

The Bible says that Obedience is better than sacrifice....................I don't believe that God would have ever let him use his son for a sacrifice.

 

[3.14]

its simple god isn't without emotions he still likes to be worshiped so if his creation would go so far as to sacrafice something that important to him he's happy

same as if you asked your wife to give up her job for you and she would, she wouldn't need to but it still be awsom to know she would if needed

 

[Starfish]

I loved your comments, Dawny. They reminded me of something my favorite LDS Apostle said a few years back. He was comparing the sacrifice Abraham almost had to make with the sacrifice our Father in Heaven actually did make in sacrificing His Only Begotten Son for the sins of mankind. This Apostle described the anguish Abraham must have been going through and then said this:

“Our Father in Heaven went through all that and more for in his case the hand was not stayed. He loved his Son, Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, and yet he allowed [Him] to descend from His place of glory and honor, where millions did Him homage, down to the earth, a condescension that is not within the power of man to conceive. He came to receive the insult, the abuse, and the crown of thorns. God heard the cry of His Son in that moment of great grief and agony in the garden when, it is said, the pores of his body opened and drops of blood stood upon him, and he cried out: ‘Father, if Thou be willing remove his cup from me.’

I ask you, what father and mother could stand by and listen to the cry of their [child] in distress, and not render aid and assistance? But in the case of our Father, the knife was not stayed, but it fell, and the life’s blood of His beloved Son went out. [The] Father looked on with great grief and agony over His Beloved Son, until there seems to have come a moment when even our Savior cried out in despair: My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?’

In that hour I think I can see our dear Father behind the veil looking upon these dying struggles until even He could not endure it any longer, and like the mother who bids farewell to her dying child, has to be taken out of the room, so as not to look upon the last struggles, so He bowed His head, and hid in some part of His universe, He great heart almost breaking for the love that He had for His Son.”

Amen.

 

[McBell]

The whole story with Abraham was the fact that God was testing his obedience.

The Bible says that Obedience is better than sacrifice....................I don't believe that God would have ever let him use his son for a sacrifice.

Interesting.
And what was the purpose of this "test?"

 

[3.14]

to test his power? how would you know how omnipotent you are untill you tryed it

 

[fantome profane]

I prefer the Abraham that is depicted in chapter 18 of Genesis. This Abraham talks back to “God”, argues with “God”. This Abraham is horrified at the idea that “God” would kill innocent people. “That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”. It is a very different Abraham than the one who is willing to slay his own innocent son without argument just a few chapters later. I find it fascinating that such different attitudes towards “God” are displayed in this one character.

The question that I put to you is which is the more virtuous, which shows the greater humanity, the Abraham that argues with “God” or the Abraham who is obedient?

 

[McBell]

I prefer the Abraham that is depicted in chapter 18 of Genesis. This Abraham talks back to “God”, argues with “God”. This Abraham is horrified at the idea that “God” would kill innocent people. “That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”. It is a very different Abraham than the one who is willing to slay his own innocent son without argument just a few chapters later. I find it fascinating that such different attitudes towards “God” are displayed in this one character.

The question that I put to you is which is the more virtuous, which shows the greater humanity, the Abraham that argues with “God” or the Abraham who is obedient?

Ya oughta make a poll from them thar options.....

 

[Starfish]

I loved your comments, Dawny. They reminded me of something my favorite LDS Apostle said a few years back. He was comparing the sacrifice Abraham almost had to make with the sacrifice our Father in Heaven actually did make in sacrificing His Only Begotten Son for the sins of mankind. This Apostle described the anguish Abraham must have been going through and then said this:

“Our Father in Heaven went through all that and more for in his case the hand was not stayed. He loved his Son, Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, and yet he allowed [Him] to descend from His place of glory and honor, where millions did Him homage, down to the earth, a condescension that is not within the power of man to conceive. He came to receive the insult, the abuse, and the crown of thorns. God heard the cry of His Son in that moment of great grief and agony in the garden when, it is said, the pores of his body opened and drops of blood stood upon him, and he cried out: ‘Father, if Thou be willing remove his cup from me.’

I ask you, what father and mother could stand by and listen to the cry of their [child] in distress, and not render aid and assistance? But in the case of our Father, the knife was not stayed, but it fell, and the life’s blood of His beloved Son went out. [The] Father looked on with great grief and agony over His Beloved Son, until there seems to have come a moment when even our Savior cried out in despair: My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?’

In that hour I think I can see our dear Father behind the veil looking upon these dying struggles until even He could not endure it any longer, and like the mother who bids farewell to her dying child, has to be taken out of the room, so as not to look upon the last struggles, so He bowed His head, and hid in some part of His universe, He great heart almost breaking for the love that He had for His Son.”

You know, it's sad to me that such a moving quote is posted here, yet people just continue on with flippant replies to the OP. It's as if many here just throw around complaints about God, but don't want to stop, take a moment, and consider the depth of some answers. Those with complaints often aren't the ones who have really read the scriptures. Nor have they prayed and asked God about it. They just complain.

 

[d3vaLL]

You know, it's sad to me that such a moving quote is posted here, yet people just continue on with flippant replies to the OP. It's as if many here just throw around complaints about God, but don't want to stop, take a moment, and consider the depth of some answers. Those with complaints often aren't the ones who have really read the scriptures. Nor have they prayed and asked God about it. They just complain.

Why is God upset? He gets to see his son up in heaven right away. But Jesus? I can understand why a normal person would be freaking out about dying: there is ambiguity and doubt. Besides the physical pain (which isn't unique to the Jesus experience), what is he so concerned about...I'm serious, this isn't meant to be taken sarcastically. I mean come on, he's crying about dying at the same time as he's making dinner plans with his new friends (and probably his best, as everyone knows best friends come out of the most painful trials). I'd hope he's crying because he's a wimp and can't handle the physical pain because I can't think of another reason.

 

[Katzpur]

You know, it's sad to me that such a moving quote is posted here, yet people just continue on with flippant replies to the OP. It's as if many here just throw around complaints about God, but don't want to stop, take a moment, and consider the depth of some answers. Those with complaints often aren't the ones who have really read the scriptures. Nor have they prayed and asked God about it. They just complain.

I'm glad at least one person enjoyed it, Starfish. I used it in a Relief Society Easter Lesson a few years back. When I first read it, it was the first time I'd ever stopped to think of God the Father's sacrifice; I'd always just considered the sacrifice to be Jesus' alone. (By the way, in case you didn't know, it was M. Russell Ballard's quote. He's probably my favorite Apostle.)

 

[Starfish]

Why is God upset? He gets to see his son up in heaven right away. But Jesus? I can understand why a normal person would be freaking out about dying: there is ambiguity and doubt. Besides the physical pain (which isn't unique to the Jesus experience), what is he so concerned about...I'm serious, this isn't meant to be taken sarcastically. I mean come on, he's crying about dying at the same time as he's making dinner plans with his new friends (and probably his best, as everyone knows best friends come out of the most painful trials). I'd hope he's crying because he's a wimp and can't handle the physical pain because I can't think of another reason.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The pain he endured goes beyond anything any mortal could stand. Any of us would have died from it. And I'm not talking about being nailed to a cross.

 

[Father Heathen]

You know, it's sad to me that such a moving quote is posted here, yet people just continue on with flippant replies to the OP. It's as if many here just throw around complaints about God, but don't want to stop, take a moment, and consider the depth of some answers. Those with complaints often aren't the ones who have really read the scriptures. Nor have they prayed and asked God about it. They just complain.

Have you stopped, took a moment, and considered the depth of this?

 

[d3vaLL]

You have no idea what you're talking about. The pain he endured goes beyond anything any mortal could stand. Any of us would have died from it. And I'm not talking about being nailed to a cross.

Enlighten me.

 

[Charity]

Interesting.
And what was the purpose of this "test?"

To see if Abraham would be obedient and offer Isaac as a sacrifice. It wasn't the sacrifice that God was wanting it was to check the obedience.........And in this test Abraham found out that Je ho vah ji reh (God will provide) Look at the promise from God just because Abraham obeyed God.........

 

[Sententia]

Interesting.
And what was the purpose of this "test?"

That which does not kill me...