Bugging the Hell Out of Me..

[Sententia]

You have no idea what you're talking about. The pain he endured goes beyond anything any mortal could stand. Any of us would have died from it. And I'm not talking about being nailed to a cross.

Oh my... Where in the bible does it say god can even feel pain or felt pain at this? His son was immortal... a mortal life is not even a blink of an eye for an immortal creature. I understand you interpret it to be so... But jesus existed before he came down as a mortal and will exist again as a mortal and then as an immortal forever.... I doubt in the scale of such things anyone would be upset.

It actually rather egotistical to think an immortal spirtual creature of vast powers would visit earth to save us mortal and allow us immortal life forever in happiness...

 

[Starfish]

Enlighten me.

His suffering was in Gethsamane. He sweat blood from the pores of his skin, due to the agony. The crucifixion just completed it. None of us can even comprehend what he endured. And his Father in Heaven had to stand by and let it happen.

 

[McBell]

To see if Abraham would be obedient and offer Isaac as a sacrifice. It wasn't the sacrifice that God was wanting it was to check the obedience.........And in this test Abraham found out that Je ho vah ji reh (God will provide) Look at the promise from God just because Abraham obeyed God.........

So I guess you, like me, do not believe God to be all knowing?

 

[Starfish]

So I guess you, like me, do not believe God to be all knowing?

God is all-knowing. But Abraham wasn't. It was Abraham who learned about Abraham's faith.

 

[McBell]

God is all-knowing.

An opinion I happen to disagree with.

But Abraham wasn't. It was Abraham who learned about Abraham's faith.

and what did Abraham learn, exactly?

 

[Charity]

So I guess you, like me, do not believe God to be all knowing?

I think He knew exactly what Abraham would do

 

[d3vaLL]

His suffering was in Gethsamane. He sweat blood from the pores of his skin, due to the agony. The crucifixion just completed it. None of us can even comprehend what he endured. And his Father in Heaven had to stand by and let it happen.

Sweating blood from the pores of your skin is a pain I cannot imagine. Likewise, I still am having trouble imagining the CAUSE of such an EFFECT.

 

[Starfish]

An opinion I happen to disagree with.


and what did Abraham learn, exactly?

I can't possibly know everything he learned. But none of us really know what we're capable of until we're in a situation. Great acts of bravery have been commited by people who never though they had it in them.

So Abraham learned about himself. He learned for himself, the extent of his own faith. He also gained some understanding of what God would have to endure when the time came for his own son to be sacrificed.

 

[Charity]

Sweating blood from the pores of your skin is a pain I cannot imagine. Likewise, I still am having trouble imagining the CAUSE of such an EFFECT.

It's called Diapedesis the movement or passage of blood cells especially white blood cells , through intact capillary walls into the surrouding body tissue.

 

[McBell]

He also gained some understanding of what God would have to endure when the time came for his own son to be sacrificed.

I seriously doubt it.
But then, that is a topic for another thread.

 

[d3vaLL]

It's called Diapedesis the movement or passage of blood cells especially white blood cells , through intact capillary walls into the surrouding body tissue.

That sounds painful. I guess we agreed all along, he was upset because of the physical pain alone.

 

[blackout]

and what did Abraham learn, exactly?

That "God" is a psychopath?

Is this a figure we're supposed to call "friend"?

I'm guessing it's a myth. Plain and simple.
What the point(s) of this myth is (are),
I really have no idea.
I haven't pondered any of this in a very long time.

And never from my present perspective.

 

[d3vaLL]

That "God" is a psychopath?

Is this a figure we're supposed to call "friend"?

I'm guessing it's a myth. Plain and simple.
What the point(s) of this myth is (are),
I really have no idea.
I haven't pondered any of this in a very long time.

And never from my present perspective.

God wanted to see if Abraham realized His contradiction. He did not, and found Abraham was dumb, which pleased Him.

Seriously, the point is clear. Obedience to God > Your own ethical judgment.

You know what I'm tired of these ridiculous paradoxes. I'm on the verge of becoming a full blown atheist, pending the inability to answer why anything can or does physically exist at all.

 

[Charity]

God wanted to see if Abraham realized His contradiction. He did not, and found Abraham was dumb, which pleased Him.

Seriously, the point is clear. Obedience to God > Your own ethical judgment.

You know what I'm tired of these ridiculous paradoxes. I'm on the verge of becoming a full blown atheist, pending the inability to answer why anything can or does physically exist at all.

Use your own ethical judgment and become whatever you wish, only you can decide that.

Wishing you the best whatever you decide
Charity

 

[fantome profane]

You know, it's sad to me that such a moving quote is posted here, yet people just continue on with flippant replies to the OP. It's as if many here just throw around complaints about God, but don't want to stop, take a moment, and consider the depth of some answers. Those with complaints often aren't the ones who have really read the scriptures. Nor have they prayed and asked God about it. They just complain.

Do you consider my post in this tread to be flippant? It really wasn’t intended as such.

I can understand how you could find Katzpur’s post very moving, but other people will have different reactions. Just because somebody has a different understanding of this story than you do doesn’t mean that they haven’t thought about it. I think you post indicates that you haven’t given much thought as to where other people may be coming from on this issue. Other people may gain a different lesson from this story than you do, but that lesson is still valid.

 

[blackout]

God wanted to see if Abraham realized His contradiction. He did not, and found Abraham was dumb, which pleased Him.

Seriously, the point is clear. Obedience to God > Your own ethical judgment.

You know what I'm tired of these ridiculous paradoxes. I'm on the verge of becoming a full blown atheist, pending the inability to answer why anything can or does physically exist at all.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That was funny!
frubals.

Now,
Blind and wreckless obedience to ?God?>What you know deep down to be true ??
is the moral of the story?
This is exactly why I say I have no idea what this myth means,
because this sounds more like fractured fairytales...

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Did God order Abraham to KILL,MURDER his son?

And the fact Abraham was willing to do it satisfied God?

And so God stopped him..Sure he did..

But Abraham was considred the most faithful of servant that he would KILL and MURDER his own son to satisfy God..God was PLEASED that Abraham would in fact KILL if God told him too..Abraham loved God..so much he would sacrifice MURDER his child..And God was happy that Abraham would in fact KILL MURDER his own child..

Whats up with that?

Love

Dallas

Religion has a dual origin: evolution and revelation. Abraham lived in an age where human sacrifice was not at all uncommon: Moses advanced religon by substituting animals. The idea of Jesus' death being an atonement for our sins was a compromise to attract people who felt some kind of sacrifice was necessary. The Jewish religon has pretty much evolved beyond that while, in spite of it being contrary to Jesus' revelation, it still prevails in Christian thought.

'Tis a shame.

 

[cardero]

And the fact Abraham was willing to do it satisfied God?

And so God stopped him..Sure he did..

But Abraham was considred the most faithful of servant that he would KILL and MURDER his own son to satisfy God..God was PLEASED that Abraham would in fact KILL if God told him too..Abraham loved God..so much he would sacrifice MURDER his child..And God was happy that Abraham would in fact KILL MURDER his own child..

Whats up with that?

There are two things that I positively understand about GOD.

One is that He doesn’t murder or ask anyone to murder for Him.

Two, that GOD practices UNCONDITIONAL Love and doesn’t have a need to test this love in the response or reaction of obedience and worship.

His suffering was in Gethsamane. He sweat blood from the pores of his skin, due to the agony. The crucifixion just completed it. None of us can even comprehend what he endured. And his Father in Heaven had to stand by and let it happen.

Jesus chose the decisions of his own physical existence.

Those with complaints often aren't the ones who have really read the scriptures. Nor have they prayed and asked God about it.

I am sure you will disagree with the responses but I just thought I should let you know that I did inquire GOD about this.

“The man they called Jesus lived his life according to the way he wanted to live it. He knew what his potential as a human BEing was, he set out to accomplish this, and he did. Not by what everyONE wanted him to become but what he decided he should BE.”

“Did Jesus die because it was MY will or something I had preordained? No, I did not choose to send him down to Earth, nor was it MY choice to have him crucified.”

“Jesus didn't fulfill some hidden agenda of MINE.”

“I never promised Jesus to you.”

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Jesus The Christ
Pg: 110.111.112, 119, 120

Make no misunderstanding, a relationship with the Biblical God can be precarious and life threatening and one who believes that it is glorifying or noble to die or kill in the name of this deity should not be comparably rating (or judging) the methods in which other human entites choose to exit (or to live) this physical existence.

 

[rocketman]

Did God order Abraham to KILL,MURDER his son?

..

Whats up with that?

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Hebrews 11:19 yet (maybe I missed it). Paul (or whoever wrote Hebrews) is relaying one Jewish tradition of the events, but in doing so he raises an important point that changes the context:

" 17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,
18 even though God had said to him, It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.
19 Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead.."

So he knew God had plans for Isaac anyhow, and remember also that by this point Abraham had already seen a few miraculous things, so he probably felt that his son was in safe hands. Given that he was reportedly about to go through with it, he must have trusted that Isaac would somehow be ok. But boy, what a test all the same......

 

[rocketman]

Oh my... Where in the bible does it say god can even feel pain or felt pain at this?

Genesis 6:5-6, Isaiah 63:10 , Psalm 78:40 , Jeremiah 42:10 etc

His son was immortal...

There are a few exceptions but most of Christianity believes Jesus became mortal in order to save us.

It actually rather egotistical to think an immortal spirtual creature of vast powers would visit earth to save us mortal and allow us immortal life forever in happiness...

Why? Monotheists will tell you that their Diety made us so that he could have a personal relationship with us. If you love someone you do what it takes.