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Burning books and effigies - What the hell is wrong with these people (all of 'em)?

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Petraeus Warns Against Church's Koran Burning


Published September 06, 2010

afghan_protest_090610_397x224.jpg


Monday: Afghans burn an effigy of Dove World Outreach Center's pastor Terry Jones during a demonstration against the United States in Kabul. The Florida-based church plans to burn the Koran to mark Sept. 11.


A Florida church's plan to burn Korans on Sept. 11 isn't doing the troops in Afghanistan any favors, Gen. David Petraeus said Monday.
Hundreds of Afghans protested Monday in Kabul over the decision by the Gainesville, Fla.-based Dove World Outreach Center to burn copies of what Muslims consider the word of God.

Petraeus said he's concerned that the protests could spread across the country.

"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort in Afghanistan. It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community," Petraeus said in a statement provided to Fox News.

Though Dove World Outreach Center has been denied a permit to hold a bonfire, the Koran burning is still scheduled to proceed on Saturday. The burning -- set to mark nine years since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks -- follows a campaign last year in which the church distributed T-shirts that said "Islam is of the Devil."



In a blog on the church's website, writer Fran Ingram offered the groups’ reasoning for burning the Koran, arguing that it is not God's word and denies Jesus is the son of God, that Islam is totalitarian and that the religion teaches idolatry, paganism, rites and rituals.
"We are using this act to warn about the teaching and ideology of Islam, which we do hate as it is hateful. We do not hate any people, however. We love, as God loves, all the people in the world and we want them to come to a knowledge of the truth," the blog reads.

Other writings by the same blogger include headlines like "Islam is Cursed by Cursing Israel" and "The Koran: A Sorcerer's Scroll."

The U.S. Embassy in Kabul issued a statement condemning the church's plans, saying Washington was "deeply concerned about deliberate attempts to offend members of religious or ethnic groups."

But outside the U.S. Embassy, where as many as 500 protestors chanted "Long live Islam" and "Death to America," demonstrators argued that the church isn't acting of its own will.

"We know this is not just the decision of a church. It is the decision of the president and the entire United States," said Abdul Shakoor, an 18-year-old high school student who said he joined the protest after hearing neighborhood gossip about the Koran burning.

Burning a Koran is considered by Muslims among the most offensive actions taken against Islam. In 2005, 15 people died and scores were wounded in riots in Afghanistan sparked by a story in Newsweek magazine alleging that interrogators at the U.S. detention center in Guantanamo Bay placed copies of the Koran in washrooms and had flushed one down the toilet to get inmates to talk. Newsweek later retracted the story.

Fox News' Mike Emanuel and The Associated Press contributed to this report.


FOXNews.com - Petraeus: Burning Koran Puts American Lives 'in Jeopardy'


Good grief. This is right up there with banning minarets and headscarves - wasted, inflammatory efforts which do NOTHING to address the real problems between radical Islam and the West.

If I lived closer to Florida, I'd go there to protest these IDIOTS and their bookburning. Way to lower yourself to your "enemy's" level.

And if I lived in Afghanistan, I'd be doing my very best to get out of that hell hole.
 
I don't understand their mentality, I mean, burning the Koran is just going to play right into the extremist Muslims' hand - they can't point to the intolerance of some Westerners, and, may get more support, it will also damage America's reputation in Afghanistan, and other places.

Personally, I don't understand that Florida Church, nor the Taliban and others who burn any kind of book, or anything that's considered Sacred to someone. I believe you should show respect to others. To me, I don't think that Church is any better than Fred Phelps' "Church" or even the Taliban,they have the same bigotry in them.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
A lot of American Protestants suffer from ''Intellectual Poverty''

I wouldn't limit it to some protestants.
The condition seems to afflict every identifiable group....except Revoltistanians.
We read books & sometimes compost them, but never burn them.

I'd advise Muslims to think of the physical book in possession of a non-believer as valueless.
Even if that book is burned, it matters not because your book is still safe in your possession.
The information & what it means to you is neither lost nor diminished. Those who would burn
theirs disgrace only themselves.

Sorry, guys...I just realized I don't belong in this thread category. I'm out'a here.
 
Last edited:

Levite

Higher and Higher
There is no excuse for those guys. Even if the Quran really were just extremist literature-- which it most certainly is not!-- bookburners are still the lowest of the low, barely above Nazis and child molesters. You don't burn books: you discuss your differences with them, you debate ideas, you make philosophical and literary arguments.

I said it elsewhere, and will do so again: Heinrich Heine said, Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen. ("Anywhere they burn books, they will ultimately burn people, also.")

If we all thought the way these people seem to, we would be judging Christianity by them, and burning the Bible because it was clearly the inspiration for hatred and bigots.

To me, this is just another horrible example of why fundamentalism is not only bad religion, it is inexcusable morally. Absolutism can and will inevitably be used to justify anything.

Fortunately, they are just a lunatic fringe group. They can be offensive as hell, but they have no power to hurt that we do not give them. I just hope that Americans can somehow make it clear to the Muslim world that these people are not representative of what America is supposed to be.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Those people who are burning the Qur'an would be appalled if some Muslims started burning Bibles- in fact, they would scream the loudest.

Book burning appalls me no end. It absolutely solves nothing; if anything causes even more problems.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
Mayor Bloomberg says he's not against pastor's planned Koran burning
By DAVID SEIFMAN
Last Updated: 4:15 PM, September 7, 2010
Posted: 10:19 AM, September 7, 2010

Mayor Bloomberg said today that he defends the pastor of a small Florida church who plans to hold a Koran burning this week -- although he considers the Sept. 11 event “distasteful."
"In a strange way, I'm here to defend his right to do that," Bloomberg said.
Terry Jones, who heads the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., has said he has given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by General David Petraeus over plans to torch a Koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.


Read more: Mayor Michael Bloomberg says he's not against Pastor Terry Jones' planned Koran burning - NYPOST.com
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Mayor Bloomberg says he's not against pastor's planned Koran burning
By DAVID SEIFMAN
Last Updated: 4:15 PM, September 7, 2010
Posted: 10:19 AM, September 7, 2010

Mayor Bloomberg said today that he defends the pastor of a small Florida church who plans to hold a Koran burning this week -- although he considers the Sept. 11 event “distasteful."
"In a strange way, I'm here to defend his right to do that," Bloomberg said.
Terry Jones, who heads the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., has said he has given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by General David Petraeus over plans to torch a Koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.


Read more: Mayor Michael Bloomberg says he's not against Pastor Terry Jones' planned Koran burning - NYPOST.com

I'd have to agree with Bloomburg (shudder).

While I think the book burning is idiotic, asinine, ridiculous, and the work of ignorant bigots, I think that they should be allowed to do so (provided both the books and the property belong to them).

But I'm deeply ashamed that we still have people this ignorant in the US.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Religious freedom and freedom of speech means that we must allow people to be incredibly offensive, insensitive, and ignorant sometimes.

Unfortunately, just about every ideological group has idiotological members who misrepresent the goals and intentions of the majority. And they get all the attention. Pity, really.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Religious freedom and freedom of speech means that we must allow people to be incredibly offensive, insensitive, and ignorant sometimes.

Unfortunately, just about every ideological group has idiotological members who misrepresent the goals and intentions of the majority. And they get all the attention. Pity, really.

Idiotological. What an awesome word. ;)
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I don't agree with Bloomburg. Freedom of speech and religion shouldn't mean freedom to willfully hurt people. Call me a Commie or whatever.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
I don't agree with Bloomburg. Freedom of speech and religion shouldn't mean freedom to willfully hurt people. Call me a Commie or whatever.

No body is being physically hurt. I agree that physical harm should be illegal.

And there is no way to prevent people being offended. Everything written, spoken, or seen has the ability to **** off somebody. So, unless you want to ban all forms of communication, then it's not going to stop.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
stupidity doesn't discriminate.
the idiot has the "right" to burn the Qur'an, and i have the right to think he's a complete moron.

i've said in every thread regarding this issue:

the best insult the Muslim communities worldwide can throw at this guy is to IGNORE and NOT CARE. starving him of the attention he desires...ahhhh, that would be SWEET!
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
stupidity doesn't discriminate.
the idiot has the "right" to burn the Qur'an, and i have the right to think he's a complete moron.

i've said in every thread regarding this issue:

the best insult the Muslim communities worldwide can throw at this guy is to IGNORE and NOT CARE. starving him of the attention he desires...ahhhh, that would be SWEET!

Exactly.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Mayor Bloomberg says he's not against pastor's planned Koran burning
By DAVID SEIFMAN
Last Updated: 4:15 PM, September 7, 2010
Posted: 10:19 AM, September 7, 2010

Mayor Bloomberg said today that he defends the pastor of a small Florida church who plans to hold a Koran burning this week -- although he considers the Sept. 11 event “distasteful."
"In a strange way, I'm here to defend his right to do that," Bloomberg said.
Terry Jones, who heads the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., has said he has given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by General David Petraeus over plans to torch a Koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.

I think I understand what Bloomberg's getting at, and essentially I agree with him. Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech. This is America, and you can't make laws against being a son of a b****, and you can't take away someone's freedom of expression without evidence that will stand up in a court of law that that person's expression will directly lead to the threat of harm to a specific person or group of persons.

Is it awful and disgusting to burn Qurans or Bibles or other sacred texts, or really any books? Sure. It's revolting and ignorant and barbaric. And it should be roundly condemned by all. But it can't be stopped by government.
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
stupidity doesn't discriminate.
the idiot has the "right" to burn the Qur'an, and i have the right to think he's a complete moron...

:clap

Saw him on TV tonight. comparing him to morons might be an insult... to morons!

Here's my idea... other Abrahamic people in America should make a charity drive... for every Qur'an he burns we donate a Qur'an to a poor Muslim who needs one.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I don't agree with Bloomburg. Freedom of speech and religion shouldn't mean freedom to willfully hurt people. Call me a Commie or whatever.

How is anyone being "hurt" by this (other than their petty pride)? No one's rights are being violated by burning these books. If people don't like it, why not simply ignore it instead of giving them a reaction?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
:clap

Saw him on TV tonight. comparing him to morons might be an insult... to morons!

Here's my idea... other Abrahamic people in America should make a charity drive... for every Qur'an he burns we donate a Qur'an to a poor Muslim who needs one.

If they're poor I would rather give them food or clothing instead.
 

kai

ragamuffin
its insulting behaviour, i am pretty sure it would be illegal to do that in the UK
 
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