Burning The Stars and Stripes.........

[Green Gaia]

The right to liberty and freedom and those symbols which represent same...

Sabio

How is someone buring a flag taking away another person's liberty and freedom?

 

[Green Gaia]

Ever said the pledge of Allegiance Maize?

Yes I have. What's your point? Do you really pledge allegiance to a piece of material? No, it's a symbolic act swearing allegiance to your country and its principles, one of which is freedom.

 

[Sabio]

Yes I have. What's your point? Do you really pledge allegiance to a piece of material? No, it's a symbolic act swearing allegiance to your country and its principles, one of which is freedom.

Your almost there, you pledge allegiance "to the flag" and "to the republic for which it stands".

I'm not questioning your patriotism, just stand up for that which you pledged.

Sabio

 

[Sabio]

[PART QUOTE=Seyorni]......................"Burning the flag is so anathema to most Americans that amendments to ban the practice are repeatedly introduced to Congress for inclusion in the constitution. Perhaps the citizens of RF are a bit more liberal, but, personally, I'd sooner sit on a hornet's nest than burn Old Glory in public.

The flag is an excellent illustration of my point, though. The stars & stripes is a symbol of, among other things, freedom -- freedom of dissent, freedom to criticize the actions of one's government, freedom to censure both literally and symbolically. Would you rather some malcontent expressed his outrage at some vile policy by burning a flag --or blowing up a building?

The outrage at flag burning lies not in the symbolic act itself but in the perceived disparagement of ones sacred values and patriotism.".......................

[/PART QUOTE]
Re : The Christian Paradox



I am thoroughly confused. I thought I remember being surprized at the fact that Forum members saw the burning of the American flag as an expression of free speech, and that it should therefore be regarded as permissable. From the following thread, two members say that in their eyes, it is wrong. Just to satisfy my curiosity; Right or Wrong ? (To burn the American flag in protest)

Michel,

I guess you've seen the passions this question can evoke... I'm done

Sabio

 

[Green Gaia]

Your almost there, you pledge allegiance "to the flag" and "to the republic for which it stands".

I'm not questioning your patriotism, just stand up for that which you pledged.

Sabio

You say the flag is a symbol. Are you pledging allegiance to the symbol or to that which it symbolizes? Take away the symbolism of the flag and it's just a piece of material (and I don't say that to be offensive). I don't see how anyone could pledge allegiance to a piece of material as you are suggesting and I do not believe that is what the author of the pledge intended.

 

[Sabio]

Just for the record, I think flag burning on the whole is a very silly thing to do.

On this we agree!

Sabio

 

[Jaymes]

Flag burning, while distasteful, hurts no one... unless they hold the flag too long and scorch their fingers. It's protected by the constitution. Someone can call someone a liberal flag-burning sissy all they want and whine and go on about it, but that's their right as well.

 

[Valjean]

Flag-burning is a time-honored demonstration of outrage over particularly heinous government policies or the general direction government is taking. It is a symbolic act, and harms no-one. Too often malcontents resort to assault, vandalism or riot. Why is a harmless, symbolic act viewed as more despicable than actual mayhem and destruction? Wouldn't you rather Timothy McVeigh & al had burned a flag at the door of the Murrah Federal building?

 

[Draka]

I just find it ironic that the thing that's got everyone up in arms is the same thing that is the prescribed method for retiring a flag anyway. You don't throw away a flag, or toss it in the dumpster behind your workplace...it gets burned. Not that I agree or disagree with flag burning as protest, I have no opinion on it either way (yes, people...Draka with no opinion, mark your calendars) I just find it ironic is all. The flag itself will get burned one way or another in the end anyway.

 

[Ori]

Flag-burning is a time-honored demonstration of outrage over particularly heinous government policies or the general direction government is taking. It is a symbolic act, and harms no-one. Too often malcontents resort to assault, vandalism or riot. Why is a harmless, symbolic act viewed as more despicable than actual mayhem and destruction? Wouldn't you rather Timothy McVeigh & al had burned a flag at the door of the Murrah Federal building?

Agreed with the above. Wouldn't you rather have seen a flag burning than the twin towers?

 

[jamaesi]

Liberty and justice for those who can afford it .

You know, I always liked to say "And liberty and justice for straight people only!"

: )



On the defending things that I find distasteful or wouldn´t engage in myself, hey, I think being only straight is icky and I´d never be a theist, but I´m all kinds of for people who want to be straight or Jewish or Christian or Muslim or whatever.


It´s sort of sad when people get so caught up in symbolism that a little piece of cloth means more than free speech and human rights...

 

[Cynic]

You know, I always liked to say "And liberty and justice for straight people only!"

: )



On the defending things that I find distasteful or wouldn´t engage in myself, hey, I think being only straight is icky and I´d never be a theist, but I´m all kinds of for people who want to be straight or Jewish or Christian or Muslim or whatever.


It´s sort of sad when people get so caught up in symbolism that a little piece of cloth means more than free speech and human rights...

For some it means more than just a peace of cloth. It symbolizes our country, of which whom many, in their patriotism have put their lives on the line in defense of liberty and freedom. To some veterens or active duty soldiers, the flag is their pride. I myself, have sacrificed some of my own freedoms to serve and protect the freedom of others. Many Americans take their freedom for granted. Some do not appreciate what they do have.

To make the burning of the flag illegal, is a contradiction of the freedom of speech. But at the same time, it's a little offensive to me.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

some things shouldn't be considered free speech. And this is one of them. anyone who burns the flag, they can just leave. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers lost their lives in defense of the principles this flag represents. To burn it is to dishonor all of them, and our boys still fighting in Iraq. It should be considered treason.

 

[Green Gaia]

some things shouldn't be considered free speech. And this is one of them. anyone who burns the flag, they can just leave. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers lost their lives in defense of the principles this flag represents. To burn it is to dishonor all of them, and our boys still fighting in Iraq. It should be considered treason.

Shall we consider speaking out against the actions of the President treason as well?

What about protesting the war?

Where do you draw the line?

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

at burning the flag, isn't it clear? protesting is fine, but burning the flag is not.

 

[Cynic]

at burning the flag, isn't it clear? protesting is fine, but burning the flag is not.

Isn't burning the flag synonymous with protesting?

 

[Green Gaia]

at burning the flag, isn't it clear? protesting is fine, but burning the flag is not.

Why? ..

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

Hundreds of thousands of soldiers lost their lives in defense of the principles this flag represents. To burn it is to dishonor all of them, and our boys still fighting in Iraq.

 

[Green Gaia]

Actually, I would say that to deny the fundamental freedom of speech would be a greater dishonor to their sacrifice.

And there are not just "boys" in the military, there are many women serving as well.

 

[turk179]

Blah, blah, blah...

Isn't it funny that some people resort to the same ole childish quote when they are feeling the pressure of anothers opinion.

Personally I feel that burning any flag for protesting reasons is wrong but only for the symbolic nature of it. I agree with Maize in almost every aspect of this thread. To say that the men and women that have died for this country did it for a flag and what it symbolizes is like trying to complete a 100 piece puzzle with only 2 pieces. Is it wrong to burn the flag? I think so. But who am I to determine what is an acceptable form of protest.

I just find it ironic that the thing that's got everyone up in arms is the same thing that is the prescribed method for retiring a flag anyway. You don't throw away a flag, or toss it in the dumpster behind your workplace...it gets burned.

Absolutely. It is disrespectful not to retire a damaged or dirty flag that way.