By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...​

I am not a Pauline-Christians, the same way (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah was never a Christian, right, please?
Yeshua- the Israelite truthful Messiah, I understand, was through and through a human being who had direct Converse with One G-d, in his first coming the same way in his Second Coming 1835-1908 he is through and through a human being with whom One G-d has Conversed directly, one to one, please, right?
____________________

"What religion was Jesus?
Of course, Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother, in Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends, associates, colleagues, disciples, all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues."
Jesus Many Faces - He Was Born, Lived And Died As A Jew | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS




It Aint Necessarily So said:
That was an interesting lead to follow. I wondered to whom you were referring, so I Googled it. Who was born and died in those years? I guess it's not too difficult to guess which of these people you mean or what your religious orientation is (recall that you declined to answer when I asked why you answer with "right, please?" and suggested that it might be like reading PBUH and G-d from some posters):

• Empress Dowager Cixi (29 November 1835 – 15 November 1908) was a Manchu noblewoman of the Yehe Nara clan who effectively controlled the Chinese government in the late Qing dynasty as empress dowager and regent for almost 50 years
• Joseph Stanislaw August Friedrich Joseph Telêmaco Luci Poniatowski (9 November 1835 – 6 January 1908) was a Polish nobleman, member of the House of Poniatowski.
• Tomás Estrada Palma (July 9, 1835 – November 8, 1908) was a Cuban politician. He was a professor and politician from Bayamo, the first President of the Republic of Cuba.
• Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (13 February 1835 – 26 May 1908) was an Indian religious leader and the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement in Islam. He claimed to have been divinely appointed as the promised Messiah and Mahdī—which is the metaphorical second-coming of Jesus (mathīl-iʿIsā), in fulfillment of the Islamic prophecies regarding the end times, as well as the Mujaddid (centennial reviver) of the 14th Islamic century.

YoursTrue said:
OK -- try to answer this, if you will, please: why are you so against Paul?
paarsurrey:
I have no personal grievance against Saul aka Paul.
I like Christians, they are good people, right?

Regards

You think? What's good in your opinion? And then what's bad? Perhaps we can talk. A little. (right please? )

 

[YoursTrue]

Dear I Am Hugh,

I must give you the same rebuke I just gave H__

Love and blessings...
Lisa

Saul knew he was not supposed to speak to spirit mediums. He disobeyed the One that he was supposed to worship and obey.
P.S. Oh, and the woman who was the medium knew also she could be in trouble for allowing Saul the King to try to contact a dead person. Anyway it didn't turn out well for Saul. I used to try out these things -- nevermore, saith the raven. (Edgar Allan Poe)

 

[Lisa Sims]

Saul knew he was not supposed to speak to spirit mediums. He disobeyed the One that he was supposed to worship and obey.

Hello Y__
I'm glad you weighed in.

Samuel also stated that a law had been made against consulting mediums to call in spirits because of rampant bad practices among common mediums of the day.

"...In those days mediums were more numerous than most people suppose, and because of their being so common and of such different kinds, and the most of them engaged in necromancy and evil arts, there were passed strict laws against them pursuing their calling or engaging in the practice of consulting spirits.
But not all were bad, and many of them did good in the world, and among these was the Woman of Endor, notwithstanding that she has been so vilified and abused by the churches and preachers..." Samuel, 7/31/1915

In any case, whether it was wrong or right of Saul to engage a medium to get advice from Samuel, his mentor, that still does not support the position of those who say there is no afterlife.

Love and blessings,
Lisa

 

[YoursTrue]

You mean you really think Saul spoke through a medium to a dead person? No...sorry...while it could be taken by some to believe that, and it certainly was by Saul...there is nothing to support the idea that he was really speaking with anything more than a demon. Saul was obviously not blessed for this decision on his part.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Dearest H__
The entire Bible is rife with information about the Spirit World, where lives every person who has ever lived on earth in one sphere or another who are completely able to channel messages or speak through mediums of one ilk or another--and you would stand on one obscure verse from Ecclesiastes?

Jesus' (and Friend's) Second Coming Message Series From Spirit, 1914 to today, contains statements from both Saul and Samuel given through one of his inspired/developed mediums concerning the "Woman of Endor" who channeled Samuel at Saul's request. They both say she was a gifted medium and not an evil woman.

"I am the same Saul that called up Samuel, or rather who caused the woman of Endor to do so...I want to confirm what Samuel said as to the woman of Endor. She was not a witch or evil woman, but was a medium and received communications from the higher spirits of the spirit world. She has been abused for centuries, and should not be further thought of as a wicked woman..." Saul, 8/7/1915

"I am the same Samuel whom the woman of Endor called from the spirit world to show Saul his doom; and as I come to you tonight, I came to her at that time, only my purpose is not the same, and I am not the same spirit in my qualifications... Well, the woman of Endor was not a witch and did not practice the black art. She was a good woman possessed of powers to call up the dead, as they were called. She did not engage in practices of doing harm to mortals, such as putting spells upon them or using charms, but she was a true medium and, while not possessed of much spirituality, yet she was a woman of good morals, and had around her many spirits of the higher order whose only desires were to do good to mortals. She was one who was careful to have no evil spirits come and communicate, and her powers with the higher ones were very great. Had she been of what you call the lower class of mediums, I would never have responded to her call; she was in rapport with men and other spirits whose thoughts were turned to the higher things of the spirit world, and, hence, she had no difficulty in having us appear when she desired it for the consolation of help to mortals. Samuel, 7/21/1915

"Thank God the people are more enlightened now, and will soon recognize the fact that a good medium is one of the greatest gifts of God to suffering humanity. The time will come when mediums will be looked upon as were the prophets of old by the Jewish people, but without having the ingratitude of the people visited upon them, as it was visited at times on these of old prophets." Saul, 8/13/15

And a message from one who liked to quote the verse you mentioned from Ecclesiastes:

"...Well, I realize the falsity of my teachings and the wrong and injury that are being wrought among those who have been followers of me; and how great will be their surprise when death comes to them, for what I said was impossible they will find to be true - that they are more alive than they ever were while living in the flesh..." Charles Taze Russell, 7/31/1918

Love and blessings...
Lisa

Deuteronomy 18:10-12….

Jehovah condemns such activity. (Why would a loving God do that, if such encounters were genuine?)

You’ve been misled.

Have a good day, cousin.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

--and you would stand on one obscure verse from Ecclesiastes?

Oh no, Ms. Lisa,

There are other Scriptures that agree with Ecclesiastes 9:5….

Psalm 146:3,4;
Psalm 115:17;
Genesis 3:19

Why would you call
Ecclesiastes 9:5 “obscure”?

What are your beliefs on Hell?

Again, I hope you will have a good day.

 

[Lisa Sims]

What are your beliefs on Hell?

Greetings H__

What are your beliefs on Hell? The Bible gives us two options:
1) It is a lake of fire of eternal damnation.
2) It is a place of darkness and suffering where Jesus went to preach to the spirits who perished in Noah's flood (among others) upon his passing to spirit.

Which option do you believe a loving Creator would have provided?

Your sister in God's Love

 

[Muffled]

Sorry, but I just wanted you to know that I looked up every single reference you gave and none of them discusses birthdays or Christmases at all, unless you count the birthday of Herod, in Mark (I think), where, well, the emphasis seems to be on Herod's BEHAVIOR, not celebrating his birthday.

What abour circumcision. Isn't that a birhday celebraation?

 

[Muffled]

Most people would agree with you, "the thoughts of the spirit go on"

I think it is good to explain every detail of my beliefs with scriptures alone, leaving out my own thoughts. Sometimes that is hard to do, do you feel it is good to understand things from the Bible's perspective?

Ecc 3:20 "All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust" 1 Kings 2:10 "Then David died and was buried with his ancestors in the City of David. John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their tombs/graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned" John 11:24 "Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Gen 3:19 "In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” Thes 4:13 "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope." Acts 2:27 For you will not leave my soul among the dead or allow your Holy One to rot in the grave. Acts 24:15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust" John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Please take a look, I do believe that these scriptures are not taken out of context, it is very common for the Bible's words to all of a sudden start on different subjects.

All Bible translations use some of these inspired details, do you feel it is good to explain your beliefs with scriptures?
1. "all return to dust" Ecc 3:20, 9:10; Gen 3:19, Job 10:9, Ps 104:29, 146:4
2. "slept with his fathers", "died" 1 Kings 2:10, 1 Thess 4:13-14, Jn 11:11, Acts 7:60, 1 Cor 15:6, Acts 13:36
3. "Grave", "Tomb", "Sheol", "Hades" John 5:28-29, Job 14:13, 1 Sam 2:6, Acts 2:27
4. "will rise", "resurrected" Isaiah 26:19, Acts 24:15, Rev 20:12, Luke 23:42, Dan 12:2
5. "on the last day." John 11:24, John 6:40, 44, 54, 12:48; Dan 12:13, Acts 17:31

Spoiler: Click to see or hide scriptures

Either way it is worded, do we value the Bible to explain every detail of our beliefs? So much effort and research has been given to translate every word, we can find some good information in every Bible, do you agree?

Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." John 11:11 After He had said this, He told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to wake him up.” Job 14:13 O that thou wouldst hide me in the grave, that thou wouldst keep me secret, until thy wrath is past, that thou wouldst appoint me a set time, and remember me! Isaiah 26:19 But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ps 104:29 When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their spirit/breath, they die and return to the dust. Acts 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. Dan 12:13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”


New King James Version
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” -Genesis 3:19

New King James Version
All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Ecclesiastes 3:20
...........................

Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 1 Thess 4:13 NIV

New Living Translation
And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope.

English Standard Version
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.

Berean Standard Bible
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.

Amplified Bible
Now we do not want you to be uninformed, believers, about those who are asleep [in death], so that you will not grieve [for them] as the others do who have no hope [beyond this present life].

New King James Version
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

Good News Translation
Our friends, we want you to know the truth about those who have died, so that you will not be sad, as are those who have no hope.
...........................

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And David fell asleep with his fathers and he was buried in the city of David. -1 Kings 2:10

New International Version
Then David rested with his ancestors and was buried in the City of David.

New Living Translation
Then David died and was buried with his ancestors in the City of David.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
David lay down in death with his ancestors and was buried in the City of David.
...........................

New American Standard Bible
Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29
and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment. -John 5:28-29

New International Version
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29
and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. -John 5:28-29

New King James Version
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” -John 11:24, Isaiah 26:19, Acts 24:15, Rev 20:12, John 6:40, 44, 54, 12:48

I believe the resurrected Jesus after having reentered His body recounted His life to the men who were on the road to Emmaus.

 

[Muffled]

‘Thoughts of the spirit’?

Where’s that in Scripture?

Only a mind produces thoughts.

Muffled, i know that you respect the Bible.
Please read the specific Genesis account (2:16,17) where God told Adam he would die if he ate from the TKGE.

God did NOT explain what death was, did He? Don’t you think that would be important, to know such details? If at their death Adam and Eve were going to ‘live in another realm,’ God should have told them; reveal all the consequences of their disobedience. But God didn’t say anything more!

Adam must have already known what death was. How?

By seeing the animals die!

There is no difference between animals dying & humans dying. This is supported by Ecclesiastes 3:19,20.

Please notice what God told Adam after he sinned…Genesis 3:19… “Yo u will return to the ground for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Just like animals.

The only difference is that humans are promised a resurrection at a future time. Acts 24:15; John 5:28,29; John 6:40.

Take care.

Does not John call Him th e Word. Where do words come from if not thoughts?

 

[Muffled]

As a spiritualist, I believe that our consciousness "lives on" as a form of energy, which I refer to as our spirit and/or soul. I also believe that we will retain our memories, along with our personality after death, but we will acquire a much broader perspective than what we have now. I believe that once we die, we are free of the physical and psychological constraints of our humanity, allowing us to see and understand beyond what we see and understand now.

I believe there is nothing concrete about what a spirit is. It certainly has energy in the sense that it need not be static.

I believe God has the ability to know more but we are still restricted by our finite nature.

 

[Kathryn]

What abour circumcision. Isn't that a birhday celebraation?

Sorry, I don't see it that way.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Lisa Sims,

Hello, Lisa. I'd like to respond to your posts concerning Samuel and the Witch of Endor, the spirit medium. I'm not sure if you're familiar with who I am or what I've written about the Bible's depictions of the afterlife. So, I thought I'd give a short summary before I proceed with my response. I'm an ex-Christian, evangelist, and street preacher. I was a Christian for 30 years. Now I'm a spiritualist, Wiccan, and Druid. I'm also a spirit medium and a veteran paranormal investigator. I have 45 years of personal experience as a medium and 17 years of experience as a seasoned paranormal investigator. I don't want to derail this discussion with a lengthy backstory of my experiences, so I've included links to my prior posts (with additional links) where I discuss a few of them.

Post 1: What is Evidence?

Post 2: A Christian believes?

Post 3: Do you believe more and more people are getting into the paranormal?

Now that my introduction is done, I will proceed with my response.

The discussion revolves around King Saul using the Witch of Endor, a spirit medium, to summon the spirit of the prophet Samuel.

In 1 Samuel 28:7–20, it states that the spirit of the prophet Samuel communicated with King Saul and that he warned Saul that God would deliver both him and Israel into the hands of the Philistines because of his disobedience to God. There is no mention in these verses that the spirit King Saul spoke to was anything else but the spirit of Samuel. However, according to Ecclesiastes 9:5, the dead know nothing. Wouldn't it have been more of an accurate account of this alleged interaction if it were specified that the spirit Saul spoke to was a demon in disguise and not Samuel? I read 1 Samuel 28:7–20, and I didn't see any indication whatsoever that the spirit he spoke to was a demon. Why does the Bible forbid consulting the dead if the dead know nothing?

Considering all of the criticism I've received from Christians who claim I'm actually conversing with demons rather than deceased people, I think it's quite ironic to find a story in the Bible about Saul using a spirit (psychic) medium to communicate directly with the spirit of Samuel, especially given its other assertion in Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing. In fact, Ecclesiastes 9:5 also states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, this is contradictory to other scriptures that suggest there are final rewards given in heaven (such as these verses here) and that people's names have been written in a "Book of Life" that God is said to have on hand (see the verses here), as well as their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). It seems like an obvious contradictory message to me. Are the dead forgotten, as Ecclesiastes 9:5 asserts or not? It can't be both ways.

If the dead know nothing, then how would they know if they are either in heaven or hell? For example, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19–31), the rich man knew that he was in torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"). It is a parable of a dead rich man who was obviously conscious that he was being tormented in Hades, was able to recognize Lazarus and Abraham from afar, and also pleaded with Abraham to help him. If this interaction wasn't an actual event or was just a made-up story, then why would Jesus have told it as a parable? Surely he would have known about Ecclesiastes 9:5, correct? So why would he deliberately contradict this verse by telling a story about a dead man being tormented in hell? Furthermore, in Luke 24:37–39, he mentioned the appearance of a ghost because his disciples thought he was one. Why would he have mentioned the appearance of a human ghost if the dead are forgotten, as Ecclesiastes 9:5 claims, or if he and his disciples didn't believe that ghosts existed and were actually demons in disguise? There is no mention in these verses that he rebuked his disciples by telling them that there is no such thing as ghosts and that they were demons in disguise. There are scripture about him confronting demons, so surely if he knew that ghosts were demons, then he would have warned his disciples.

After extensive reading, study, and examination of the Bible, I've found that Ecclesiastes 3:21 specifies that human spirits and the spirit of the animal rise upward from the earth. Revelation 20:13 states that spirits rise up from the sea and Hades. Also, Hebrews 9:27 states that people are destined to die once and, after that, face judgment, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 suggests that believers are in the presence of Jesus after death. According to 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17 and Revelation 20:11–15, both believers and unbelievers' spirits are sleeping in their graves and awaiting God's judgment in the end times. Furthermore, there are other scriptures that describe "soul sleep" (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15). Given all of these conflicting scriptures, it's not surprising to me that Christians disagree about what happens to people after death.

 

[Lisa Sims]

Now I'm a spiritualist, Wiccan, and Druid. I'm also a spirit medium and a veteran paranormal investigator. I have 45 years of personal experience as a medium and 17 years of experience as a seasoned paranormal investigator.

Hi S__
I support your activities, beliefs and assertions...good job!
I have a hard time understanding why people don't feel that upon passing from their mortal bodies they will be in the spirit world navigating their new reality. Does no one tell Johnny any more, "Grandma's in Heaven"?

I am with a group know as the Divine Love Community or the Divine Love Movement. Before that, I was a regular protestant Christian studying the Bible.

If men would have faith like the Apostles, healing and so-called miracles would exist today
“...You must not think that this is the only age in which spirits communicate with mortals, for I must tell you that in my time it was much more common than now; and in our congregations when worshiping and when in our other gatherings, and often in private, we had these communications…

…This was an important part of the services of our meetings, and one that kept us in constant harmony with the soul power of those who lived in the spirit form, and from whom we received powers of healing and of doing good in many other ways…

…Hence, try the spirits, and if they do not acknowledge Jesus as the son of God, let them alone, and do not receive their communications or teachings, because they are not believers in Christ and the New Birth…” John, Apostle of Jesus, 9/12/1915

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Hi S__
I support your activities, beliefs and assertions...good job!

Thank you. I appreciate your kind compliment.

I have a hard time understanding why people don't feel that upon passing from their mortal bodies they will be in the spirit world navigating their new reality. Does no one tell Johnny any more, "Grandma's in Heaven"?

I don't believe in the biblical teachings of heaven or hell, nor do I believe that either is a geological location. I also don't believe in any of the Bible's other depictions of the afterlife. Given everything I've experienced for the last 45 years of my life, I truly believe that it would be intellectually dishonest of me to accept the Bible's multiple erratic depictions of the afterlife as absolute truth. In fact, I reject them all as being both inaccurate and gravely misleading.

Furthermore, I believe that these conflicting depictions can cause Christians to believe incorrectly about the afterlife, and these beliefs can hinder them from crossing over. So it makes perfect sense to me why some earthbound spirits of Christians asked me, "Where is God?" "Where is Jesus?" and "Why am I not in heaven yet?" or the one spirit I encountered during a paranormal investigation who frantically exclaimed, "The children aren't in heaven yet!" What I know from years of experience as a medium is that many confused earthbound spirits of Christians either believed that they should have gone to heaven immediately after their deaths (scriptural reference: Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 5:8) or that they should be asleep in their graves while they wait for Jesus to resurrect them (scriptural reference: Daniel 12:2; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The latter expected to meet him and other Christians in the sky and be taken up into heaven. Some of the most heartbreaking encounters I've ever had with the spirits of Christians were those that lingered in church buildings, whether it was occupied or abandoned. They didn't understand what was happening to them. Some were sad and confused, and others were upset and felt betrayed.

I am with a group know as the Divine Love Community or the Divine Love Movement. Before that, I was a regular protestant Christian studying the Bible.

If men would have faith like the Apostles, healing and so-called miracles would exist today
“...You must not think that this is the only age in which spirits communicate with mortals, for I must tell you that in my time it was much more common than now; and in our congregations when worshiping and when in our other gatherings, and often in private, we had these communications…

…This was an important part of the services of our meetings, and one that kept us in constant harmony with the soul power of those who lived in the spirit form, and from whom we received powers of healing and of doing good in many other ways…

…Hence, try the spirits, and if they do not acknowledge Jesus as the son of God, let them alone, and do not receive their communications or teachings, because they are not believers in Christ and the New Birth…” John, Apostle of Jesus, 9/12/1915

That is interesting. Thank you for telling me about it.

 

[Lisa Sims]

Thank you. I appreciate your kind compliment.



I don't believe in the biblical teachings of heaven or hell, nor do I believe that either is a geological location. I also don't believe in any of the Bible's other depictions of the afterlife. Given everything I've experienced for the last 45 years of my life, I truly believe that it would be intellectually dishonest of me to accept the Bible's multiple erratic depictions of the afterlife as absolute truth. In fact, I reject them all as being both inaccurate and gravely misleading.

Furthermore, I believe that these conflicting depictions can cause Christians to believe incorrectly about the afterlife, and these beliefs can hinder them from crossing over. So it makes perfect sense to me why some earthbound spirits of Christians asked me, "Where is God?" "Where is Jesus?" and "Why am I not in heaven yet?" or the one spirit I encountered during a paranormal investigation who frantically exclaimed, "The children aren't in heaven yet!" What I know from years of experience as a medium is that many confused earthbound spirits of Christians either believed that they should have gone to heaven immediately after their deaths (scriptural reference: Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 5:8) or that they should be asleep in their graves while they wait for Jesus to resurrect them (scriptural reference: Daniel 12:2; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The latter expected to meet him and other Christians in the sky and be taken up into heaven. Some of the most heartbreaking encounters I've ever had with the spirits of Christians were those that lingered in church buildings, whether it was occupied or abandoned. They didn't understand what was happening to them. Some were sad and confused, and others were upset and felt betrayed.



That is interesting. Thank you for telling me about it.

My pleasure, S__

The spirit messages our group receives from the Celestials and others are archived at soultruth.ca and new-birth.net and for the most part agree with your findings! The writings of the first century Christians were greatly corrupted by Romans of pagan influence. And much harm and hindrance has come to spirits because of belief in such false teachings.
The "Re-birth" in God's Essence (Light and Love) is the important thing, and can speed any spirit's transformation and ascent through the levels...and we can start praying for and receiving that now. It was demonstrated by the "Transfiguration" event in the New Testament involving the radiance of Jesus and to a lessor degree, Moses and Elijah in spirit, who had only begun praying for it after hearing Jesus teaching it. "Could you not watch with me one hour?" was a window to Jesus' meditation practice of spiritual communion with God which he brought news of and taught, showing the effects of it in his own person.

"...Well, at the time Moses and Elias met Jesus in the Mount of Transfiguration, they had received a portion of this Divine Love, because they had learned previous to that date of its re-bestowal on mankind. And as they were very spiritual beings in the sense that they had developed their natural love to its supreme excellence and were very near the Father in their soul development, so they were ready recipients of this Divine Love when it came again to man and spirits. But they were not so filled with it then as many spirits who were mortals in your time, are now..." Daniel, prophet of God, 7/21/1915

S__ I hope you have not become jaded by the condition of the dark spirits that you work with. There is more beauty and grandeur to the Spirit Realm that our human minds can imagine.

Love and blessings...
Lisa

 

[Lisa Sims]

Where do you think they got their information that Jesus was the Angel of Great Council? [ I have found some evidence ].

Greetings, Walt

I don't know where they got their information but Jesus' Second Coming Messages from Spirit, 1914 to Today, call everyone who has made it into the Kingdom of God, "Divine Angels" because in the process of being Born from Above, all their human nature was absorbed by the Divine Nature that in-filled them. There are millions of them.

2 Peter 1:4 "...through (Jesus) He has given to us the precious and magnificent promises, so that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Romans 5:5 "...God has poured out His Love into our (souls) by the Holy Spirit which He has given to us.

This is also the "narrow way" that few find...prayer and silent communion with God to receive His Divine Essence...His Love.

"Could you not watch with me one hour?" Jesus

Blessings...
Lisa

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What are your beliefs on Hell? The Bible gives us two options:
1) It is a lake of fire of eternal damnation.
2) It is a place of darkness and suffering where Jesus went to preach to the spirits who perished in Noah's flood (among others) upon his passing to spirit.

Hello, Ms. L…
Well, I asked you first, but I’ll respond:
I’m sorry, but through my personal research I have found the Bible supports neither option ….

Your 1st option was
“1) It is a lake of fire of eternal damnation.”

This can’t be, for Hell is “cast into / thrown into” the L of F:
Revelation 20:14, KJV…
“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

You can’t throw something into itself.

Your 2nd option was
“2) It is a place of darkness and suffering where Jesus went to preach to the spirits who perished in Noah's flood (among others) upon his passing to spirit.”

You’re referencing 1 Peter 3:19 & 2 Peter 2:4,5. At 2 Peter 2:4,5, SLT, we read...”For if God spared not the angels having sinned, but delivered up, hurled into Tartarus, to cords of darkness, having been kept for judgment;”

The English ‘Hell’ is translated from ‘Sheol’ in the Hebrew Scriptures (OT), and ‘Hades’ in the Greek Scriptures (NT). ‘Tartaro’o’ is an action verb, a completely different word, used only once in the Bible, @ 2 Peter 2:4 describing the “hurling into Tartarus.” Those hurled were the “angels who sinned”; not “spirits who perished.”
Humans had perished. (For if spirits had perished back in Noah’s day, how could Jesus have preached to them?)

Getting back to Sheol / Hades / Hell:
Please read Genesis 37:35, Douay-Rhiems…regarding Jacob:
“And all his children being gathered together to comfort their father in his sorrow, he would not receive comfort, but said: I will go down to my son into hell, mourning. And whilst he continued weeping,”

You see that? Jacob thought Joseph was in Hell, and said he was going there at his death.

At Job 14:13, Job prayed to go to Hell…
“Who will grant me this, that thou mayest protect me in hell, and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt remember me?”

These Scriptures, and all the others when accurately translated, affirm there is no torment in Hell…. only “R.I.P.”…. where ‘everyone goes at death.’
- Ecclesiastes 9:10.

The meaning of the Biblical Sheol / Hades has been twisted by Christendom for centuries, to scare the masses into submission!

Revelation 12:9 tells us….”So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth. He was hurl down to the Earth, and his angels were held down with him.”

How did the Devil get angels? These were “the angels that sinned” @ 2 Peter 2:4, the same ones that Jude 1:6 says “forsook their natural dwelling place”, the Heavens.
They are first mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4, as “sons of God.” They abused their position as God’s spirit sons, materialized as humans, and began abusing humans especially women, “taking as wives all whom they chose.”

No wonder the Flood came!

 

[Elihoenai]

Dearest H__
The entire Bible is rife with information about the Spirit World, where lives every person who has ever lived on earth in one sphere or another who are completely able to channel messages or speak through mediums of one ilk or another--and you would stand on one obscure verse from Ecclesiastes?

Jesus' (and Friend's) Second Coming Message Series From Spirit, 1914 to today, contains statements from both Saul and Samuel given through one of his inspired/developed mediums concerning the "Woman of Endor" who channeled Samuel at Saul's request. They both say she was a gifted medium and not an evil woman.

"I am the same Saul that called up Samuel, or rather who caused the woman of Endor to do so...I want to confirm what Samuel said as to the woman of Endor. She was not a witch or evil woman, but was a medium and received communications from the higher spirits of the spirit world. She has been abused for centuries, and should not be further thought of as a wicked woman..." Saul, 8/7/1915

"I am the same Samuel whom the woman of Endor called from the spirit world to show Saul his doom; and as I come to you tonight, I came to her at that time, only my purpose is not the same, and I am not the same spirit in my qualifications... Well, the woman of Endor was not a witch and did not practice the black art. She was a good woman possessed of powers to call up the dead, as they were called. She did not engage in practices of doing harm to mortals, such as putting spells upon them or using charms, but she was a true medium and, while not possessed of much spirituality, yet she was a woman of good morals, and had around her many spirits of the higher order whose only desires were to do good to mortals. She was one who was careful to have no evil spirits come and communicate, and her powers with the higher ones were very great. Had she been of what you call the lower class of mediums, I would never have responded to her call; she was in rapport with men and other spirits whose thoughts were turned to the higher things of the spirit world, and, hence, she had no difficulty in having us appear when she desired it for the consolation of help to mortals. Samuel, 7/21/1915

"Thank God the people are more enlightened now, and will soon recognize the fact that a good medium is one of the greatest gifts of God to suffering humanity. The time will come when mediums will be looked upon as were the prophets of old by the Jewish people, but without having the ingratitude of the people visited upon them, as it was visited at times on these of old prophets." Saul, 8/13/15

And a message from one who liked to quote the verse you mentioned from Ecclesiastes:

"...Well, I realize the falsity of my teachings and the wrong and injury that are being wrought among those who have been followers of me; and how great will be their surprise when death comes to them, for what I said was impossible they will find to be true - that they are more alive than they ever were while living in the flesh..." Charles Taze Russell, 7/31/1918

Love and blessings...
Lisa

Leviticus 19:31

31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.

1 Samuel 28:13

13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

1 Chronicles 10:13

13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;


@Lisa Sims,

Real Christian Practice the Supernatural. The Supernatural we Practice is Obtained through the Journey of Consecrating/Purifying the Heart to Elohim/God. A Consecrated/Purified Heart means Total Obedience to the Commandments of Elohim/God that is Elohim's/God's Will. In other words, we Obtain Supernatural Power by Legal Means.

Saul Disobeyed the Command to Not ask after a Familiar Spirit. The Familiar Spirit that brought up Dead Samuel did so by Contacting Spirit from Below. Familiar Spirits are From Below.

It's Good that you have Acknowledged that you are Not Born Again yet, although, how do expect to get Born Again without Obedience to the Word Elohim/God?

 

[Lisa Sims]

why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
https://swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_heaven_and_hell.pdf
The physical body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God, who resides in heaven.

Beautiful, T__

So much Divine Truth in your posting.

We have messages from Swedenborg, "the Seer," from spirit, in Jesus' Second Coming Message Series from Spirit, 1914 to Today. I believe he was the first person Jesus (from spirit) approached to deliver his Second Coming Messages To The World.

12/17/1915 Swedenborg writes on the hells.
04/08/1917 Swedenborg - did not know of the Divine Love as contradistinguished from the natural love.
12/23/1917 Swedenborg does not want Mr. Padgett to be a failure in his work for the Kingdom as he was.

Love and blessings...
Lisa

John 16:25 "...Thus far I have spoken to you only in parables...but a time is coming when I will tell you plainly about the Father..." Jesus