CA Shooters most likely radical Islamic Extremists

[MARCELLO]

There's over a billion Muslims. Hundreds of millions of them don't go around converting others or doing/supporting terrorist activities. If you added all the members of those Islamic terrorist groups it'd probably make less than 1% of all Islam. And there's more than just once branch of Islam and not all Muslims share the same rules, customs and beliefs, AND not every Muslim in each country will act the same way. The Muslims in Egypt will not be the same as the ones from Kazakhstan

As for news, ask yourself this, are they reporting the news? Or creating it?

That's very dangerous to do to create the news. And they don't report every single thing, but just because it wasn't reported doesn't mean it didn't happen. And because Americans keep seeing these Islamic terrorists they start thinking Muslims are all bad. But if I showed you all the tyranny from the country Burma and what some of those militaristic Buddhists have been doing and I showed you over and over, you would start to be less trustful of Buddhists now would you? Some of the ignorant Americans just look at the media, read a few pages of the Quran and come to the conclusion that they are all bad. Quite a few have done that.

Because hundreds millions of muslims live in areas where there no nonmuslims, perhaps that'y why there is nothing to force to convert because there is none.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Because hundreds millions of muslims live in areas where there no nonmuslims, perhaps that'y why there is nothing to force to convert because there is none.

I'm talking world wide as in every continent, most Muslims don't go around force converting. Otherwise wouldn't every Muslim majority country be 100% Muslim or close to it? Let's look at Muslim majority countries like Malaysia. 60% of it is Muslim so there's quite a few non Muslims out there. Kazakhstan is mostly Muslim but there are quite a few Christians, too. And some Muslims that are into force converting will force convert other Muslims. As I said, there's multiple branches. Even Shia Muslims are persecuted in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm talking world wide as in every continent, most Muslims don't go around force converting. Otherwise wouldn't every Muslim majority country be 100% Muslim or close to it? Let's look at Muslim majority countries like Malaysia. 60% of it is Muslim so there's quite a few non Muslims out there. Kazakhstan is mostly Muslim but there are quite a few Christians, too. And some Muslims that are into force converting will force convert other Muslims. As I said, there's multiple branches. Even Shia Muslims are persecuted in Saudi Arabia.

I got along very well with the Middle Eastern Muslims who are going to university here. Religion never came up, not once, but we still enjoyed each others company. One of them even joined in on the philosophy club meetings once in awhile. They spoke their native tongue amongst each other, but they were very polite, very considerate, very friendly, and as library patrons it was never a concern as to whether or not they would leave their chairs pushed out, studies rooms trashed, furniture moved around and not moved back, or the other stuff many American students would do because apparently they are just too lazy to pick up an empty cup on the desk they were sitting at and throw it away. They didn't hate America, they didn't hate Western ideology, they didn't hate women, and a couple of them I couldn't even see harming a fly, let alone strapping dynamite to themselves to kill themselves and a dozen-or-more others. There was even especially that stood out, because the way he would seek permission, ask if it was ok, and apologize over even very small things it can easily come off as being timid and shy in our own culture, but the level of respect, manners, and politeness that he showed was very refreshing. It was only ever a bit awkward when he apologized profusely over a book that was only a few days late.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I got along very well with the Middle Eastern Muslims who are going to university here. Religion never came up, not once, but we still enjoyed each others company. One of them even joined in on the philosophy club meetings once in awhile. They spoke their native tongue amongst each other, but they were very polite, very considerate, very friendly, and as library patrons it was never a concern as to whether or not they would leave their chairs pushed out, studies rooms trashed, furniture moved around and not moved back, or the other stuff many American students would do because apparently they are just too lazy to pick up an empty cup on the desk they were sitting at and throw it away. They didn't hate America, they didn't hate Western ideology, they didn't hate women, and a couple of them I couldn't even see harming a fly, let alone strapping dynamite to themselves to kill themselves and a dozen-or-more others. There was even especially that stood out, because the way he would seek permission, ask if it was ok, and apologize over even very small things it can easily come off as being timid and shy in our own culture, but the level of respect, manners, and politeness that he showed was very refreshing. It was only ever a bit awkward when he apologized profusely over a book that was only a few days late.

It seems that even when there are nice Muslims around, the ones that are already beyond brainwashed will still insist they are bad because "their niceness is just a trick to lure you in and force convert you" It's like there's no pleasing people. Why don't we just not trust anyone at all? Because anyone can be a bad guy and they're all out to get you. Nevermind that when they are Muslims that not only speak out and condemn Islamic terrorism and even FIGHT against it in their own country, you still see people unconvinced. There's good in bad in almost every religion. Or if people use the excuse of "Well I had a couple bad experiences with Muslims so I'm just going to assume they're all the same." Most of the bullies and conflicts I had were with black people in my neighborhood, but that doesn't mean I assumed all black people were bad. Some of my friends are black and I even dated black women. I was wise enough to know there's good and bad in almost every group. With him apologizing over the book, guess it's good to be overly polite than not polite at all

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I remember one night when I learned that Muslim prayers aren't done once they stand up. A few Muslim guys would use a study room if one was open to do their nightly prayers in, and one night I was taking final count of the patrons in the library, and I saw one of the guys was praying in the room, so I went around the floor and counted everyone else before opening the door to let them know we'd be closing soon (I'd let everyone know this when we were closing in 30 minutes). I saw the guy was now standing, so I thought he was done praying, but it turned out he wasn't quit done yet. It really wasn't even an issue either. I apologized for the intrusion, gave them the message since I was already there, they understood the confusion, thanked me for the heads up (as they always did), and we went on our ways as if it were any other day.

 

[JoStories]

Your taking my post out of context.


I'm was saying the dead woman suspect was a ISIS supporter not you


Next time please PM me if you think ive gone off the rails.

I will sugar. I was so shocked that you would think that and for me it did seem as though that is what you said. I'm so sorry baby that I thought you said that. I should have known better. Please forgive?

 

[JoStories]

You have to elaborate more. If you were referring to the woman it would have been best to say she was a supporter but you said "Sorry ISIS supporter." That makes it sound as if you're accusing JoStories of being supporting of the group. You should say "Sorry she was an ISIS supporter" though. You have to be more specific.

Thank you Weird but I should have asked him because Outhouse is a very dear man and I should have known better. I am the one with egg on my face.

 

[JoStories]

There's over a billion Muslims. Hundreds of millions of them don't go around converting others or doing/supporting terrorist activities. If you added all the members of those Islamic terrorist groups it'd probably make less than 1% of all Islam. And there's more than just once branch of Islam and not all Muslims share the same rules, customs and beliefs, AND not every Muslim in each country will act the same way. The Muslims in Egypt will not be the same as the ones from Kazakhstan

As for news, ask yourself this, are they reporting the news? Or creating it?

That's very dangerous to do to create the news. And they don't report every single thing, but just because it wasn't reported doesn't mean it didn't happen. And because Americans keep seeing these Islamic terrorists they start thinking Muslims are all bad. But if I showed you all the tyranny from the country Burma and what some of those militaristic Buddhists have been doing and I showed you over and over, you would start to be less trustful of Buddhists now would you? Some of the ignorant Americans just look at the media, read a few pages of the Quran and come to the conclusion that they are all bad. Quite a few have done that.

That was my question as well Weird. I find that the people involved here, including the local police and the FBI, seem to want to find terrorist acts, almost as though to find them as terrorists would add us to the world's population that has been attacked by these types of people. It gives us as a country licence to go to war with the religion of Islam and thereby bomb the lot of them, as well as place all Muslims in internment camps and refuse entry to any refuges. It seems to me that the media is very much to blame for a lot of this mess.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Trouble in London yesterday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35018789

 

[Revoltingest]

Trouble in London yesterday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35018789

What is it with those crazy Brits & their love for knives?

<snicker>
<snicker>
Slap me if you must, but I had to say it!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What is it with those crazy Brits & their love for knives?

Not enuff bleedin' guns.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

That was my question as well Weird. I find that the people involved here, including the local police and the FBI, seem to want to find terrorist acts, almost as though to find them as terrorists would add us to the world's population that has been attacked by these types of people. It gives us as a country licence to go to war with the religion of Islam and thereby bomb the lot of them, as well as place all Muslims in internment camps and refuse entry to any refuges. It seems to me that the media is very much to blame for a lot of this mess.

Exactly. I feel that the Muslims are being used a scapegoat, just someone who people can blame their problems on. But it wouldn't be the first time we put people into camps. We did that to Japanese Americans. The whole War on Terror thing won't end because it's not designed to end. You're not fighting a country or a state, so there's no way to define a winner so the war goes on and on and war is very profitable for some people. How long have we been fighting this war? You'd think it would end but it hasn't and more terrorist groups have emerged. See the patterns.

Whether these people were Muslims is unimportant. Just like with blacks and whites hurting each other. What difference does their race make? Media likes to throw in the person's race or religion, as if that really matters.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

There are verses in the Quran such as 9:123 and others which say that Muslims should fight non-Muslims. You do not have to be an extremist or radical. Any good Muslim who follows the Quran is told to fight non-Muslims.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

There are verses in the Quran such as 9:123 and others which say that Muslims should fight non-Muslims. You do not have to be an extremist or radical. Any good Muslim who follows the Quran is told to fight non-Muslims.

People will try to justify hating it due to the Quran because there's some bad stuff in it. Yeah, like there isn't messed up stuff in the Torah, New Testament? Even some Hindu and Dharmic scriptures have messed up stuff in it. Those books have both good and bad stuff in it. They will say that Muslims should be punished for what their ancestors did, but that's not good either. You don't punish people for what their ancestors did. This book was written over a thousand years ago and Islam today is not the same as it was before and not all follow it to the letter. It was written by multiple people, too, like the Bible. Some authors were peaceful and others were control freaks. But here's a few things to look at here.

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

"Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam.

"There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]"

Pay the poor-due. 2:43, 110, 277
Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 2:83
If you believe it, prove it. 2:111
The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 2:113
Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 2:177
Do not fight wars of aggression. 2:190
"Do good." 2:195
Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215
Help orphans. 2:220
"Make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to ... making peace among mankind." 2:224
"If the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then (let there be) postponement to (the time of) ease." 2:280
Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66
Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130
I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 3:195
Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10
Men and women proceed from one another. 4:25
"Kill not one another." 4:29
Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 4:36
Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. (It's not true, but it's a nice thought.) 4:85
If someone says Hi to you say Hi (or Howdy) back to them. 4:86
It is good to help the poor and make peace. 4:114
Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 4:135
Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 4:161
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion."
Other translations render this "O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith." (Amen to that!) 4:171
Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 5:8
Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all. 5:32
Pay the poor-due. 5:55
Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 5:89
Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 6:151
Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 6:152
Pay the poor-due. 7:156
Be kind and forgiving toward others. 7:199
And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it. 8:61
Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 9:71
"We see thee [Noah] but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us - nay, we deem you liars." 11:27
"Do not evil in the earth."
Treat people fairly, respect their possessions, and avoid evil. 11:85
Be kind to your relatives. 16:90
Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 17:23
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 17:26
Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 17:31
Don't steal from orphans. 17:34
Don't follow what you don't know. 17:36
"Speak that which is kindlier." 17:53
"Increase me in knowledge." 20:114
Feed the poor and unfortunate. 22:28
Don't lie. 22:30
Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 22:41
Pay the poor-due. 22:78
Pay the poor-due. 23:4
Repel evil with that which is better. 23:96
Pay the poor-due. 24:37, 24:56
"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom."
Allah encourages you to set your slaves free if they are good enough. And don't pimp out your slave-girls (concubines). 24:33
Repel evil with good. 28:54
Be kind to your parents. 29:8
Men and women should help each other with love an mercy. 30:21
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarers. 30:38
Pay the poor-due. 31:4
"Be modest in thy bearing and subdue thy voice." 31:19
"Speak words straight to the point."
Say what you mean; mean what you say. 33:70
Good and evil are not the same. Repel evil with goodness. That way your enemies will become your friends. 41:34
Be loving and kind to your relatives. 42:23
It is wrong to oppress people. 42:42
Live peacefully with disbelievers. 43:88-89
Be kind to your parents. 46:15
Don't defame, insult, spy on, or backbite one another.. 49:11-12
Give of your wealth to help the poor. 51:19
"A guess can never take the place of the truth." 53:28
Pay the poor-due. 58:13
Pay the poor-due. 73:20
Don't defraud. 83:1-3
Free a slave, feed the hungry, and exhort one another to pity. 90:13-17
Don't oppress orphans or drive away beggars. 93:9-10
Pay the poor-due. That is true religion. 98:5
Let each person believe (or disbelieve) whatever he or she wishes. 109:1, 6

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

None of this changes the fact that it says Muslims should fight non-Muslims. Nothing in the Bible says that Christians should go out and start fights with non-Christians. So a good honest non-radical non-extremist Muslim reads this and decides he should go out and start killing non-Muslims because his holy book says he should do this.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

None of this changes the fact that it says Muslims should fight non-Muslims. Nothing in the Bible says that Christians should go out and start fights with non-Christians. So a good honest non-radical non-extremist Muslim reads this and decides he should go out and start killing non-Muslims because his holy book says he should do this.

Well the Bible does say that, but in the Old Testament really, saying Jews who leave the faith are to be stoned. Christians also say the only way to God is through Jesus. These books say lots of things. And if what you said was even remotely true, how come my Muslim friends never tried to harm me and I've known them for years. How about judging their character rather than looking at their book that was written a thousand years ago by multiple authors? I feel you're just making up excuses and trying to justify disliking them.

 

[JoStories]

Exactly. I feel that the Muslims are being used a scapegoat, just someone who people can blame their problems on. But it wouldn't be the first time we put people into camps. We did that to Japanese Americans. The whole War on Terror thing won't end because it's not designed to end. You're not fighting a country or a state, so there's no way to define a winner so the war goes on and on and war is very profitable for some people. How long have we been fighting this war? You'd think it would end but it hasn't and more terrorist groups have emerged. See the patterns.

Whether these people were Muslims is unimportant. Just like with blacks and whites hurting each other. What difference does their race make? Media likes to throw in the person's race or religion, as if that really matters.

I agree. I don't watch the news as I find it depressing and does not even come close to a modicum of truth. It is what ever the powers that be want them to say or simply flat out fiction from the get so. And I completely agree that these people being Muslim has nothing to do with this. Its about profit and war is one of the biggest things that provides a country with profit. The government and the media can redirect our attention their unbelievable failures in terms of providing for our own citizens. And the NRA is dancing a jig over how many people are now going to buy guns and even assault weapons. The whole thing sickens me to death.

 

[prometheus11]

Islam, the religion, provides motive and direction. It is as much to blame as any other factor.

 

[prometheus11]

I agree. I don't watch the news as I find it depressing and does not even come close to a modicum of truth. It is what ever the powers that be want them to say or simply flat out fiction from the get so. And I completely agree that these people being Muslim has nothing to do with this. Its about profit and war is one of the biggest things that provides a country with profit. The government and the media can redirect our attention their unbelievable failures in terms of providing for our own citizens. And the NRA is dancing a jig over how many people are now going to buy guns and even assault weapons. The whole thing sickens me to death.

You imagine too much unity and power-to-control within among those you perceive to have influence.

From what source do YOU garner "truth?"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You imagine too much unity and control over among those you perceive to have influence.

There are only a few major major news corporations, and damn every last one is a sub-division, subsidiary, or something else along down the lines of corporate hierarchy. There are only a few major record labels, only a few major motion picture studious, and as a consequence the information that is more widely and readily available only comes from a few different sources.