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Cain's Sacrifice.

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Yes, even before the sacrificing of Abel by Cain.
Following this never before heard version of redemption for Cain, and attempting to think in harmony along with it combined the prior references to child sacrifice fresh in my mind, taking all into account I cannot see why it would not have been just as pleasing to God for Him to tell Adam & Eve to sacrifice Abel or Cain, or both of them for their redemption as well ?
After all they both were first humans in line in need of redemption.

Excellent point. Which segues into the nature of Adam and Eve's need for redemption? Their redemption is required because of the original sin, which is the conception of Cain. Since Cain is the first born-sinner (i.e., his conception is the original sin), he's the first of the "nephilim" נפלים, or "fallen ones." As the Talmud tells us, his actual father isn't the first human, but the angelic serpent. From strict exegesis of the Hebrew text we can know that Cain's father is the angelic serpent, and that his brother, Abel, is already in Eve's womb from the time she's cloned from the first human (think of a latter-day woman conceived already pregnant such that her firstborn is in the bedchamber of her temple prior to the entrance of the flesh created in the serpent's image).

Since Abel is in Eve's womb from the get-go, if Abel is born before the membrane on Eve's temple is torn by the serpent (contaminating her temple), Abel would be qualified to redeem Adam and Eve. Except that then, ironically, they wouldn't need redemption since Abel would have been born as the firstborn of creation prior to the fall that is the serpentine conception of Cain. Cain is conceived with the seed of Abel already in Eve's womb. They're thus born as twin brothers. One is virgin conceived, and the other is the first human conceived by the serpent. Cain usurps Abel's birth and is thus reckoned the messianic-firstborn (Colossians 1:16) when in fact he's a perfect analogue not of Christ, but of anti-Christ (his father).

Cain comes to understand the sacerdotal elements of all of this and is literally told (where the Hebrew is properly exegeted) that the sacrifice of Abel is the means whereby salvation can be obtained. When Abel is sacrificed, God takes the blood of the sacrifice and puts a mark on Cain just as Moses marked every Jew with the blood of the sacrifice in Exodus. It's the blood of Abel, like the blood of animal sacrifices thereafter, that symbolize the true salvation that will come (and be applied retroactively) when a child is found out in the womb of a virgin such that he opens the veil of his mother's temple from the inside out (as was the design for Abel) rather than the serpentine flesh of his father opening it from the outside in, ala the conception of Cain and sin.

Naturally these things are all well-known on some level since no flesh has been more demonized, and covered up, in shame (even Hollywood, that is, modern Sodom and Gomorrah, won't uncover it on the screen). And when God chooses Abraham to reinstate the original covenant that would have resulted in the virgin birth of Abel, he has Abraham symbolize the renewal of that covenant by taking a knife and stabbing it, to the point of bleeding, thereby leaving a large scar, on the organ created in the image of Cain's father. Isaac is analogue of Abel had he (Abel) been born before the serpent opened the membrane or veil on his (Abel's) mother's temple. By ritually removing the offensive flesh, Abraham renders Isaac, at least ritually speaking, an analogue of what Abel was intended to be prior to the serpent forcing himself into the fore skene of the original story.



John
 
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BrokenBread

Member
Yes. There would have to be perfect symmetry throughout the scripture. I think there is. Can you think of a place that would cause a problem?




John
Yes, even before the sacrificing of Abel by Cain.
Following this never before heard version of redemption for Cain, and attempting to think in harmony along with it combined the prior references to child sacrifice fresh in my mind, taking all into account I cannot see why it would not have been just as pleasing to God for Him to tell Adam & Eve to sacrifice Abel or Cain, or both of them for their redemption as well ?
After all they both were first humans in line in need of redemption.
Excellent point. Which segues into the nature of Adam and Eve's need for redemption? Their redemption is required because of the original sin, which is the conception of Cain. Since Cain is the first born-sinner (i.e., his conception is the original sin), he's the first of the "nephilim" נפלים, or "fallen ones." As the Talmud tells us, his actual father isn't the first human, but the angelic serpent. From strict exegesis of the Hebrew text we can know that Cain's father is the angelic serpent, and that his brother, Abel, is already in Eve's womb from the time she's cloned from the first human (think of a latter-day woman conceived already pregnant such that her firstborn is in the bedchamber of her temple prior to the entrance of the flesh created in the serpent's image).

Since Abel is in Eve's womb from the get-go, if Abel is born before the membrane on Eve's temple is torn by the serpent (contaminating her temple), Abel would be qualified to redeem Adam and Eve. Except that then, ironically, they wouldn't need redemption since Abel would have been born as the firstborn of creation prior to the fall that is the serpentine conception of Cain. Cain is conceived with the seed of Abel already in Eve's womb. They're thus born as twin brothers. One is virgin conceived, and the other is the first human conceived by the serpent. Cain usurps Abel's birth and is thus reckoned the messianic-firstborn (Colossians 1:16) when in fact he's a perfect analogue not of Christ, but of anti-Christ (his father).

Cain comes to understand the sacerdotal elements of all of this and is literally told (where the Hebrew is properly exegeted) that the sacrifice of Abel is the means whereby salvation can be obtained. When Abel is sacrificed, God takes the blood of the sacrifice and puts a mark on Cain just as Moses marked every Jew with the blood of the sacrifice in Exodus. It's the blood of Abel, like the blood of animal sacrifices thereafter, that symbolize the true salvation that will come (and be applied retroactively) when a child is found out in the womb of a virgin such that he opens the veil of his mother's temple from the inside out (as was the design for Abel) rather than the serpentine flesh of his father opening it from the outside in, ala the conception of Cain and sin.

Naturally these things are all well-known on some level since no flesh has been more demonized, and covered up, in shame (even Hollywood, that is, modern Sodom and Gomorrah, won't uncover it on the screen). And when God chooses Abraham to reinstate the original covenant that would have resulted in the virgin birth of Abel, he has Abraham symbolize the renewal of that covenant by taking a knife and stabbing it, to the point of bleeding, thereby leaving a large scar, on the organ created in the image of Cain's father. Isaac is analogue of Abel had he (Abel) been born before the serpent opened the membrane or veil on his (Abel's) mother's temple. By ritually removing the offensive flesh, Abraham renders Isaac, at least ritually speaking, an analogue of what Abel was intended to be prior to the serpent forcing himself into the fore skene of the original story.



John
One thing that I am curious about all this is I have a couple of devout Jewish friends who I see pretty regularly who I have always tread lighty around when discussing my faith and even more so their faith.
Do you think they would be aware of this interpretation if I were to mention it ?
I would love to get their take on it if they have knowledge of it .
By the way are you Jewish yourself ?

KInd Regards
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
One thing that I am curious about all this is I have a couple of devout Jewish friends who I see pretty regularly who I have always tread lighty around when discussing my faith and even more so their faith.
Do you think they would be aware of this interpretation if I were to mention it ?
I would love to get their take on it if they have knowledge of it .

Most of this is an amalgamation of Jewish and Christian thought. Some of it will be familiar to Jews, and some to Christians, but the unification isn't likely to be familiar, nor appeal to, Jews or Christians. That's pretty much been borne out in this forum over the years.



John
 
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