California burger flippers are soon to be making 20 bucks an hour under minimum wage law.

[Unfettered]

Inflation is a global issue right now. It's not minimum wages, it's war, energy costs and pirates jacking up prices.
Now, once again, if minimum wage laws are so bad why are they working so well in places with a better minimum wage than America?

Households living below a Minimum Income Standard: 2008–2022

This is the 11th report in a series monitoring the number of people living beneath the Minimum Income Standard (MIS) in the UK.

www.jrf.org.uk

Read through this page. Look at the data. Look at the conclusions.

Table 1a: Number of individuals in households below MIS (millions), 2008-2009 and 2021-2022

	2008-2009	2021-2022
All individuals	16.5	20.2

How does a nearly 5% increase over 14 years in the number of persons in the UK living under the Minimum Income Standard translate to minimum-wage-increase success?

Look at all the data on that page. Notice that the lines are largely flat, but trending in the wrong direction. The relative flatness of the graph lines there is a reflection of the real world, where a an arbitrary market manipulation, like a minimum wage increase, is normalized within the overall economic system, and natural market equilibrium is achieved. If things worked the way the politicians claim they do, the lines in every one of those charts would trend steadily downward, and would stay down. That would indicate an increase in standard of living, and an increase in wealth, for those the politicians claim they are trying to help. But the data show the opposite. Every single group examined in that composite figure is moving in the wrong direction. Yet that other article says the minimum wage increase is a success. Someone is either not looking at the overall data or living in a fantasy world or, etc.

Politicians like to cheer because they pass a law that affects one single metric in a complex economic system—in this case the minimum wage. In the real world, that move is simply swallowed up by the economic system and the net gain is either none or negative.

The reason we keep seeing pushes for minimum wage increases, decade after decade, is because they don't work to raise the standard of living. They never have. They never will.

 

[Revoltingest]

Slum lords exist everywhere.

They're actually necessary in housing markets
serving the poor. In Detroit, the city allowed
housing that didn't meet code because the
cost of bringing it up to code would mean
unaffordable rents. That would've denied
housing to many thousands.
When systems are corrupt or inadequate,
individuals need the ability to cope by
acting independently.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Slum lords exist everywhere.

Sadly, they do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How does a nearly 5% increase over 14 years in the number of persons in the UK living under the Minimum Income Standard translate to minimum-wage-increase success?

Hear of the global pandemic that decimated economies just before those stats were taken?

 

[Unfettered]

Hear of the global pandemic that decimated economies just before those stats were taken?

Sure, but the data don't support the claim that the pandemic reversed gains from a wage increase. They show an oscillation tight to an MIS baseline, with a direction change after the pandemic. Actually, for those on the lowest end of the MIS, the direction change occurred a year before the pandemic and the slope was entirely unaffected by the pandemic. Most importantly, though, the data show that the baseline doesn't change over 14 years. A minimum wage increase that has an actual impact should show a permanent, lowered baseline for MIS. But it isn't there.

Ten years from now, I would expect that the graphs would show a change in direction in about 2-4 years from now back toward the baseline, just like you can see the change around 2013. And while the data don't go back that far, I'll bet we'd see the same oscillation in the two decades previous, as well.

 

[Stevicus]

Government mandated price control doesn't fit with a free, capitalist economy, but yes we need something to hold things in line.

I would view it more as a temporary emergency measure, such as the Office of Price Administration which was established during WW2. If there's a national crisis afoot, then the government might have to impose some sort of temporary decree until the crisis passes.

Our system was based on supply and demand with the burden of production cost firmly on the sholders of suppliers, they being self regulated through competition. We need something to bring competition back to the supply end so the working class can have more control on who fills their demand.

We also need to revitalize the power in the working class, not through political stump rhetoric that stirs up the feelings of powerlessness, but through actual steps that work.

When ground beef hit 69 cents a pound way back when, and yes I very well remember that, consumers boycotted all beef. It may not have been a great stand, but it was "doing" something that did show a touch of success. Part of the problem is the mid-level and higher working class continue to spend instead of demanding a controlled economy through their leadership of action.

I'm afraid we're headed towards another economic re-set --not a mere recession.

Part of the problem we're facing now (more than in the past) is that our national economy is multiply-linked and connected to the economies of many different nations and the world as a whole. The working class has no power when there are billions of impoverished people in the world who are desperate enough to work in sweatshops with long hours, grisly working conditions, and an obscenely low rate of pay which would be unlivable by U.S. standards. There's no way U.S. workers can compete with that, not under present conditions.

There are possible ways of revitalizing the power of the working class, but if it's in the framework of a global economy, then labor will also have to be organized globally as well. The changing geopolitics of the world may also trigger an economic reset. It's only a matter of time before the billions of the world will start to show discontent and resentment at having to work long hours in sweatshops to make cheap crap for Westerners.

 

[Kfox]

Fast-food workers in California to earn $20 an hour in 2024

Governor Gavin Newsom signed a new law in California to raise the minimum wage for fast food workers to $20 per hour next year.

abcnews.go.com

Sounds good but......

Thousands already have lost their fast food jobs ahead of the increase.

Fast-food restaurants in California are laying off workers to prepare for the $20 minimum wage hike

Two Pizza Hut franchisees in California are among those who are laying off workers, federal WARN filings show.

www.businessinsider.com

It's a cruel twist of fate and what do you think is going to happen to the state economy when fast food prices are increased even more than it already has?

Will the struggle between having a living wage and price increases kill the whole purpose of having a livable wage in the first place?

What's the point if the extra money made just gets eaten up when things get even more expensive than ever , bringing things back around to square one , and people can't afford anything because of lost jobs and even new higher prices making the extra difference useless.

It's like giving a raise but higher prices will just eat up the extra income literally. A vicious cycle.

It's a catch 22. Damned if you do, dammed if you don't.

Thoughts?

Do they really think raising the minimum wage is gonna help those impoverished? Most poor households are impoverished because nobody is working; not because everybody is working minimum wage.

 

[libre]

To judge the effectiveness of the minimum wage increase by the reaction of spiteful companies after implementation would be a mistake.

 

[Riders]

Their employers will likely just hire more people and give them all 10 to 15 hour work weeks.

I think well pay the high prices, we already have had high price hikes we will deal.

 

[Watchmen]

But why fast food workers? Why not retail? Why not construction? Why not office admin? Etc.?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do they really think raising the minimum wage is gonna help those impoverished? Most poor households are impoverished because nobody is working; not because everybody is working minimum wage.

I do support a living wage now for people but also am aware how raising the minimum wage just inevitably leads to a higher cost that completely defeats the purpose of getting a better wage in the first place.

If the government is actually serious, it likely would go for implementation of a UBI or encourage business to offer incentive programs themselves rather than force the market to pay its workers more which obviously dosent work as desired.

 

[McBell]

But why fast food workers? Why not retail? Why not construction? Why not office admin? Etc.?

It will apply to all employees, regardless of their job, who make minimum wage.
Though I am not so sure about waiters...

 

[Twilight Hue]

But why fast food workers? Why not retail? Why not construction? Why not office admin? Etc.?

I was asking that myself.

No doubt it would create a ripple effect that makes it far more expensive than they are letting out.

It's like a manager who makes 20 bucks an hour and now when a employee makes 20 bucks an hour , that manager is going to want more himself. Probably 30 bucks an hour, so now instead of raising a worker's wage you're now going to have to raise both a worker's wage and a manager's wage together so you can see where that leads to.

 

[Stevicus]

I was asking that myself.

No doubt it would create a ripple effect that makes it far more expensive than they are letting out.

It's like a manager who makes 20 bucks an hour and now when a employee makes 20 bucks an hour , that manager is going to want more himself. Probably 30 bucks an hour, so now instead of raising a worker's wage you're now going to have to raise both a worker's wage and a manager's wage together so you can see where that leads to.

Fast food seems to be one of the more maligned and ridiculed occupations out there, and it seems to be the first thing that people think about when thinking about minimum wage jobs.

It makes me think that an updated version of "16 Tons" would be "16 Burgers."

You flip 16 burgers, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt

St. Ronald, don't you call me, can't you understand?
I owe my soul to McDonaldLand...

 

[Unfettered]

Fast food seems to be one of the more maligned and ridiculed occupations out there, and it seems to be the first thing that people think about when thinking about minimum wage jobs.

It makes me think that an updated version of "16 Tons" would be "16 Burgers."

You flip 16 burgers, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt

St. Ronald, don't you call me, can't you understand?
I owe my soul to McDonaldLand...

LOL, that's definitely good for a chuckle. But folks are serious about their beefs with the systems they blame for the economic struggles of persons making low wages. Here you've created a hypothetical person in a hypothetical situation, so you may define all other conditions as you like, but I have a couple sincere questions for this person:

1. Who or what is requiring that this person work for minimum wage in perpetuity?
2. What is impeding this person from starting his own business?
3. What is impeding this person from acquiring skills that could secure him a better paying job?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Thoughts?

Its somewhat like what happens when Henry Ford pays so much that other automakers have to match him. Wages shoot up, and disposable income increases. It drives new businesses and increases numerous business, sharpens competition and also stimulates the population to buy autos since they can afford them. People think Ford is crazy, but he turns out to be correct.

The general idea is to avoid a situation where people have zero disposable income despite working, and you have to take into account what Jordan Peterson hinted at that 10% or more people are too stupid to be very useful as employees. That means some people just can't survive at all, and many others are just over the line, just able to work and will never be able to do better than that. The large majority of people have some hope of learning to do skilled labor, but some cannot. We are talking about this borderline group that is not so stupid that they can't work but not very talented. They will always be doing the jobs that nobody wants to do, and can they make a living doing those jobs? Not in California unless the minimum wage rises, and that is because real estate is crazy expensive. There is no reason for anyone to work in Cali for 9$ per hour if they don't already own a place.

 

[crossfire]

But why fast food workers? Why not retail? Why not construction? Why not office admin? Etc.?

It looks like the State created a "Fast Food Council" which is a way to bypass piecemeal unionization. The Fast Food Council handles resturant business, not construction, retail, and the rest you mentioned. This is a creative union-busting tactic.

​

The legislation, AB 1228, "authorized the Fast Food Council to set fast-food restaurant standards for minimum wage, and develop proposals for other working conditions, including health and safety standards and training," a press release from Newsom's office said.​

​

The newly established Fast Food Council is comprised of a nine-person group that has two representatives from the fast-food industry, two franchisee or restaurant owners, two employee representatives, two employee advocates and one member of the public. The council was created to ensure that workers have a stronger say in setting minimum wages and working conditions, including health and safety standards.​

 

[Stevicus]

LOL, that's definitely good for a chuckle. But folks are serious about their beefs with the systems they blame for the economic struggles of persons making low wages. Here you've created a hypothetical person in a hypothetical situation, so you may define all other conditions as you like, but I have a couple sincere questions for this person:

1. Who or what is requiring that this person work for minimum wage in perpetuity?
2. What is impeding this person from starting his own business?
3. What is impeding this person from acquiring skills that could secure him a better paying job?

There are answers to these questions, which are probably more complicated than what would seem on the surface.

However, the fact is, a lot of people actually do improve their own situation and move up to better paying jobs. But it's also the case that society needs someone to do these jobs, and they're still human beings and deserve proper compensation for their labor.

 

[Revoltingest]

However, the fact is, a lot of people actually do improve their own situation and move up to better paying jobs. But it's also the case that society needs someone to do these jobs, and they're still human beings and deserve proper compensation for their labor.

The problem with such legislation is that lawmakers
take this same view, ie, that it's a simplistic philosophical
argument. It imagines the desired consequences, but it
it's not based upon analysis of the range of real world
consequences.
- How many jobs will be replaced due to increased
pressure to automate?
- How much will prices rise?
- What will be the effect of higher prices?
- Will the market contract, leading to job loss.

 

[Watchmen]

It will apply to all employees, regardless of their job, who make minimum wage.
Though I am not so sure about waiters...

Incorrect. The law doesn’t require $20 for other industries.