Calling All Linguists

[Kirran]

Specifically this one, B and V. I don't know a language (save maybe Spanish) where it has ever been the other way around either and V has become B. I am fully aware of consonant shifts.

Well to be clear, that's only a phenomenon in certain dialects of European Spanish.

This? - Betacism - Wikipedia

But backwards?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Specifically this one, B and V. I don't know a language (save maybe Spanish) where it has ever been the other way around either and V has become B. I am fully aware of consonant shifts.

The are also vowel shifts too. I is e.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Well to be clear, that's only a phenomenon in certain dialects of European Spanish.

This? - Betacism - Wikipedia

But backwards?

Betacism explains it without backwards or forwards. It explains the sound.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

On the subject of language and writing, I have long stated that the internet and jargon has "dumbed down" people and they don't know how to spell, or which word is proper to use in a sentence. I can't even being to count the number of times someone has used your when they should have used you're.

I hope I'm speaking to a real person anywayz better speak in person to another person because I don't think when someone says your that that I have to fret on whether or not they used an apostrophe. You couldn't be really upset on your or you're

 

[Rival]

It can relate to an auditory processing disorder (sort of like dyslexic hearing), although this would have additional symptoms like frequently not remembering what people said to you, feeling drained when speaking to people, an inability to follow spoken multi-step instruction, etc.

Actually, this might fit. I also have trouble hearing the lyrics of songs in English (my native!) and just take it as red that I'm probably not going to understand at least 1/4 of what is sung. For this reason, I actually have a tendency towards foreign language music.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

On the subject of language and writing, I have long stated that the internet and jargon has "dumbed down" people and they don't know how to spell, or which word is proper to use in a sentence. I can't even being to count the number of times someone has used your when they should have used you're.

I have heard many people make this type of association, but the Internet community is actually developing their own written dialect. Language is fluid and the idea of unchanging norms or standards is not realistic. This is my biggest criticism of formal writing standards.

I agree some people could put more effort into their Internet writing, but many formats on the Internet encourage letter and word economy. I don't know if mixing up your and you're necessarily comes from the use of a "short hand", as it is a common mistake even off the Internet.

I do believe computers and the Internet will play a role in how written language is shaped; however, I don't see this as a "dumbing down"; just different. Take for example my spacing and lack of indention in this post. I do that on purpose, because on a discussion forum that has become the accepted style, and it seems easier for people to read off a computer screen.

Grammar should never be a set of unwavering rules; instead grammar is there to help guide us into writing something that the reader can easily interact with.

Personally, I think good writing is more about effort than it is intelligence, and all I want to see in a post is effort. I don't mind grammatical mistakes, as long as they are not due to a lack of effort. I put a lot of effort into my writing and it annoys me when someone wants me to listen to them, but does not want to put effort into their writing.

 

[Neo Deist]

I hope I'm speaking to a real person anywayz better speak in person to another person because I don't think when someone says your that that I have to fret on whether or not they used an apostrophe. You couldn't be really upset on your or you're

Your = you own something. That is your car.
You're = you are. You're going to spend money at the store.

They are not even close in meaning.

 

[Neo Deist]

I have heard many people make this type of association, but the Internet community is actually developing their own written dialect. Language is fluid and the idea of unchanging norms or standards is not realistic. This is my biggest criticism of formal writing standards.

I agree some people could put more effort into their Internet writing, but many formats on the Internet encourage letter and word economy. I don't know if mixing up your and you're necessarily comes from the use of a "short hand", as it is a common mistake even off the Internet.

I do believe computers and the Internet will play a role in how written language is shaped; however, I don't see this as a "dumbing down"; just different. Take for example my spacing and lack of indention in this post. I do that on purpose, because on a discussion forum that has become the accepted style, and it seems easier for people to read off a computer screen.

Grammar should never be a set of unwavering rules; instead grammar is there to help guide us into writing something that the reader can easily interact with.

Personally, I think good writing is more about effort than it is intelligence, and all I want to see in a post is effort. I don't mind grammatical mistakes, as long as they are not due to a lack of effort. I put a lot of effort into my writing and it annoys me when someone wants me to listen to them, but does not want to put effort into their writing.

Try writing a thesis or dissertation using "internet dialect" and see if you get confirmation from the professors. Sorry, but I hold myself to a higher academic standard.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Try writing a thesis or dissertation using "internet dialect" and see if you get confirmation from the professors. Sorry, but I hold myself to a higher academic standard.

"Try writing"

Do you mean, "You should try writing"?

 

[Neo Deist]

"Try writing"

Do you mean, "You should try writing"?

Nope. Since I quoted you in the post, the intended reader was already known. If I were to make a new post that was not directed at anyone in particular, I would have elaborated more. Nice try.

 

[SomeRandom]

Try writing a thesis or dissertation using "internet dialect" and see if you get confirmation from the professors. Sorry, but I hold myself to a higher academic standard.

Do you happen to use academic speech patterns in your everyday life when communicating casually to people?
I know honest to God English teachers who would never use academic lingo when talking to someone normally.
We use different speech patterns and standards depending on the situation. A doctor, for example, would not use medical jargon when speaking to a patient. Conversely when speaking to a colleague said doctor would be more prone to using such language.
An internet forum (especially when comments are limited to a set amount of letters) is a very casual environment. No one writes a freaking thesis when communicating online. It's simply not the time nor the place.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Nope. Since I quoted you in the post, the intended reader was already known. If I were to make a new post that was not directed at anyone in particular, I would have elaborated more. Nice try.

I think you are using net grammar and if that is your "higher academic standards" then color me not impressed.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Do you happen to use academic speech patterns in your everyday life when communicating casually to people?
I know honest to God English teachers who would never use academic lingo when talking to someone normally.
We use different speech patterns and standards depending on the situation. A doctor, for example, would not use medical jargon when speaking to a patient. Conversely when speaking to a colleague said doctor would be more prone to using such language.
An internet forum (especially when comments are limited to a set amount of letters) is a very casual environment. No one writes a freaking thesis when communicating online. It's simply not the time nor the place.

It is a bit silly to apply the same standards you would use to write an academic paper to an Internet discussion board. What is even sillier is that he is clearly writing in an informal format, yet claiming it is a formal format.

Personally, I only write in a formal format when I have to.

 

[SomeRandom]

It is a bit silly to apply the same standards you would use to write an academic paper to an Internet discussion board. What is even sillier is that he is clearly writing in an informal format, yet claiming it is a formal format.

Yeah, I've never gotten along with the prescriptivist view. English is so very messy and drunk and I kind of love it for that reason.

 

[Valjean]

Sometimes plosives (pressurized air released suddenly from a stop), like "B" or "D," transform into fricatives ( partially obstructed, hissy sounds) over time as people get lazy and relax the muscle tension forming the stop.

This is more likely in languages where the B is bilabial (like English) and the D labio-dental (tongue to top front teeth). In Modern Greek, for example, Beta was originally a bilabial plosive, but today they let some air leak by and it's pronounced "veeta," still with a bilabial articulation. The original D sound of Delta has also changed to a th: "thelta."

In Cuba the signs in Havana are usually spelled "Habana," since both sounds are articulated the same (no teeth involved, the Bs and Vs are both bilabial)

 

[Neo Deist]

Do you happen to use academic speech patterns in your everyday life when communicating casually to people?
I know honest to God English teachers who would never use academic lingo when talking to someone normally.
We use different speech patterns and standards depending on the situation. A doctor, for example, would not use medical jargon when speaking to a patient. Conversely when speaking to a colleague said doctor would be more prone to using such language.
An internet forum (especially when comments are limited to a set amount of letters) is a very casual environment. No one writes a freaking thesis when communicating online. It's simply not the time nor the place.

Yes, I have to dumb down my speech for some people.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Yes, I have to dumb down my speech for some people.

Such a great set up for a dumb joke, but I am sure that would be violating some rule.

 

[Rival]

My thread

 

[Jeremiahcp]

My thread

Sorry.

 

[Rival]

Sorry.

It's fine lol. My Q was essentially answered anyway.