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Can a human be more compassionate and merciful than God (in your opinion)

What is the most compassionate approach?

  • burn wicked people and unbelievers in hell forever and ever

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • put them out of their misery

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Purify, heal, and transform all people (through many lifetimes if need be)

    Votes: 14 70.0%

  • Total voters
    20

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
So, if I was omnipotent (the quality of having unlimited power) I would heal people of mental and physical illnesses. I would fill with joy and euphoria every sad, lonely, depressed, and miserable person. I would heal all infirmities and mental illness. I would give pedophiles and sexual deviants a healthy sexuality so that they don't feel inclined to commit acts that harm themselves or others. I would heal all people of drug, sexual, or other addictions

I would enlighten all people to know the truth. I would speak clear messages to people that seek me so that they could write down word-for-word my instructions (So there would be no confusion). I would elect world leaders who were the most wise and compassionate people on earth, and I would guide their every decision so that they knew what was best for the people.

Would we have a better world if that was done?

I would let no one be tortured for all eternity in hell. I find that people who do evil are often suffering a lot. No one wakes up in the morning and says "I'm feeling so good today, I want to go kill a bunch of people" :confused:. Consequently, I feel compassion for such people already and dread the idea of them suffering forever. Either heal them, transform them, or put them out of their misery.

I'm reading a book by Allan Kardec "The Spirit's book". It's a great read if you haven't read it. He interacts with spirits and they answer all his questions about spirits. They claim that the Spirit existed before it was incarnated and that this body is just one temporary outfit. They tell him that every spirit will be purified and made perfect eventually, but for some it will take many thousands of years and many lifetimes.

I have to agree that this belief is far more just, compassionate, merciful, and rational than the belief that people will be tortured forever and ever because of what they did or believed in this brief life (which is one-second compared to eternity....why punish someone eternally because of what they did with one-second, especially when you consider that they were blind, confused, unenlightened, and naturally inclined to sin).

Please answer the poll if you could. Please be honest about it. I'm asking what is the most compassionate approach. You might firmly believe that eternal torture is what is in store for unbelievers, but do you truly find that to be the most compassionate approach?
o_O

God gave us life and for that we can never be grateful enough.

The causes of most of the suffering of man is his own wrong choices. People are given freedom of choice. If we chose to love each other wouldn't that make our world a thousand times better? If we chose peace instead of war and sharing instead of greed where would be our suffering?

God made the world a temporary abode but He gave us guidance on how to live and if we followed it we would have a paradise on earth.

So when I had chosen a bad lifestyle I suffered. If one eats poison he gets sick. I became so mentally deranged from my own choices in life that I tried suicide 6 times. But it was my fault!

When I found Baha'u'llah and tried to follow a His Teachings my life has been filled with joy, happiness and meaning for 40 years. My marriage to another Bahá'í will be 40 years in 2018.

It's a matter of the choices we make that determine our happiness and God's guidance is always available if we want it but if we refuse to take the medicine the doctor prescribes then we can't blame the doctor. We have only ourselves to blame.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
OK
Seems I have to bring simple example to make u understand that burden of proof doesn't apply here

You simplifying anything doesn't matter. A point based on two fallacies is still two points based on fallacious reasoning thus unsound and invalid

Imagine I'm an actor and I claim that I'm the best actor in the world and for proving my claim I show u some of the movies that I starred in them

Which is meeting your burden of proof. You have dishonestly changed your argument. You previous argument would be as follows.

"I am the best actor in the world, if I am not produce a movie that has a better actor"

After all the argument is bring a sura like it. Or did you not even know the verse you are talking about.....



How can u reject my claim???

You changed your argument


Do u call it burden of proof????

You changed your argument




If I claim I'm the best actor in the world and I haven't starred in any film and insist that I'm the best and arrogantly say u should prove that I'm not the best
Yes this is a burden of proof

You changed your argument
 

interminable

منتظر
You simplifying anything doesn't matter. A point based on two fallacies is still two points based on fallacious reasoning thus unsound and invalid



Which is meeting your burden of proof. You have dishonestly changed your argument. You previous argument would be as follows.

"I am the best actor in the world, if I am not produce a movie that has a better actor"

After all the argument is bring a sura like it. Or did you not even know the verse you are talking about.....





You changed your argument




You changed your argument






You changed your argument
And u think u r honest huh??

I can only assume that u can't answer my questions nothing else.

I said this before
Muhammad pbuh says I'm a prophet of God and this book is my proof

If u think I'm not
just bring a book or at least 3 verses like it to defeat my claim.


Is it hard to understand?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
And u think u r honest huh??

Yes as I know what the verse is while you have changed it to mean something else as per your example.

can only assume that u can't answer my questions nothing else.

A fallacious argument does not require an answer

I said this before
Muhammad pbuh says I'm a prophet of God and this book is my proof

That is not the claim. The claim was the Quran is from Allah, bring a sura like it to show it is not.

If u think I'm not
just bring a book or at least 3 verses like it to defeat my claim.

Thanks for demonstrating your dishonestly by paraphrasing the verse I was talking about. The argument is fallacious.

It is an argument from ignorance as something is not true by default. It is false until show otherwise. It shifts the burden of proof to the opposition to show the claim is false rather than the claimant showing it to be true.


Is it hard to understand?

I understand your fallacious arguments. You just are obvious to your own errors in logic. Try again son.
 

interminable

منتظر
Yes as I know what the verse is while you have changed it to mean something else as per your example.



A fallacious argument does not require an answer



That is not the claim. The claim was the Quran is from Allah, bring a sura like it to show it is not.



Thanks for demonstrating your dishonestly by paraphrasing the verse I was talking about. The argument is fallacious.

It is an argument from ignorance as something is not true by default. It is false until show otherwise. It shifts the burden of proof to the opposition to show the claim is false rather than the claimant showing it to be true.




I understand your fallacious arguments. You just are obvious to your own errors in logic. Try again son.
OK then
To each his own
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Is this hard to understand???
If u want to defeat its claim bringing 3 verses isn't very hard is it?
IMHO, the Mahabharata is better written than both the bible and the Quran. It has its share of idiocy too, but at least the characters are called out on their idiocy.

If you are going to place these people into heaven, they will turn it into Hell.
God is powerless to stop them?

Imagine I'm an actor and I claim that I'm the best actor in the world and for proving my claim I show u some of the movies that I starred in them
Lots of "best actors in the world" think that before the Oscars prove them otherwise.

God gave us life and for that we can never be grateful enough.
No, this is Stockholm Syndrome. Putting an egg cell and a sperm cell together does not automatically warrant respect.

People are given freedom of choice.
My friend, who has a stubborn cancer that will not leave, who cannot pay all of her bills because she can no longer work, woke up this morning to find her house and car destroyed because a tornado threw a tree at them. What choices do THEY have?

I mean, I help her out when I can afford it, but her options are so limited as to say she has a choice is downright offensive.

So when I had chosen a bad lifestyle I suffered. If one eats poison he gets sick. I became so mentally deranged from my own choices in life that I tried suicide 6 times. But it was my fault!
If you live in Flint, MI, for example, you have the choice between bottled water you can't afford and lead-ridden water that will slowly kill your family that you can't afford because the city keeps jacking up the prices. They are being poisoned ... but hey ... THEY HAVE A "CHOICE", right?

It's a matter of the choices we make that determine our happiness and God's guidance is always available if we want it but if we refuse to take the medicine the doctor prescribes then we can't blame the doctor. We have only ourselves to blame.
Doctors can get stuff wrong. That is why we have nurses. :p

If u think I'm not
just bring a book or at least 3 verses like it to defeat my claim.
Bhagavad-Gita
Chapter 2, verse 15-17
Oh, noblest of men, that person of wise judgment equipoised in happiness and distress, whom cannot be disturbed by these is certainly eligible for liberation. In the unreal there is no duration and in the real there is no cessation; indeed the conclusion between both the two has been analyzed by knowers of the truth. But know that by whom this entire body is pervaded, is indestructible. No one is able to cause the destruction of the imperishable soul.

(my apologies if I didn't quote correctly ... stupid site's text was an image file, I guess, so I couldn't just copy/paste)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
God gave us life and for that we can never be grateful enough.

The causes of most of the suffering of man is his own wrong choices. People are given freedom of choice. If we chose to love each other wouldn't that make our world a thousand times better? If we chose peace instead of war and sharing instead of greed where would be our suffering?

God made the world a temporary abode but He gave us guidance on how to live and if we followed it we would have a paradise on earth.

So when I had chosen a bad lifestyle I suffered. If one eats poison he gets sick. I became so mentally deranged from my own choices in life that I tried suicide 6 times. But it was my fault!

When I found Baha'u'llah and tried to follow a His Teachings my life has been filled with joy, happiness and meaning for 40 years. My marriage to another Bahá'í will be 40 years in 2018.

It's a matter of the choices we make that determine our happiness and God's guidance is always available if we want it but if we refuse to take the medicine the doctor prescribes then we can't blame the doctor. We have only ourselves to blame.
God could also guide us clearly and take away wicked inclinations and he refuses. I needed guidance and the Bible or Koran won't do it for me.

God can guide my thoughts and actions or I'm hopeless. I know you're reading this Mr. God.
 

interminable

منتظر
Okay, speechless, riddle me this: would it be moral for Allah to wipe out all life on Earth?
He can do whatever he wants

الأنبياء
يَوْمَ نَطْوِي السَّمَاءَ كَطَيِّ السِّجِلِّ لِلْكُتُبِ كَمَا بَدَأْنَا أَوَّلَ خَلْقٍ نُّعِيدُهُ وَعْدًا عَلَيْنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا فَاعِلِينَ
The day We shall roll up the sky, like the rolling of the scrolls for writings. We will bring it back as We began the first creation a promise] binding [on Us.] That [indeed We will do.(104)
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Justice will not be served by inflicting upon people a punishment which is vastly disproportionate to their 'crimes' either - especially when Allah has literally every other option at his disposal since he is supposedly all-powerful.
Just suppose that there are Two evil criminals, who were planning to commit horrific crimes.

One of them was able to commit his heinous crime, while the other one died while trying...

This does not mean that the one who died trying is less evil.

This explains why the Punishment of God is according to how evil is the person, not how able was he to commit his crimes..
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
He can do whatever he wants

الأنبياء
يَوْمَ نَطْوِي السَّمَاءَ كَطَيِّ السِّجِلِّ لِلْكُتُبِ كَمَا بَدَأْنَا أَوَّلَ خَلْقٍ نُّعِيدُهُ وَعْدًا عَلَيْنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا فَاعِلِينَ
The day We shall roll up the sky, like the rolling of the scrolls for writings. We will bring it back as We began the first creation a promise] binding [on Us.] That [indeed We will do.(104)

And thus my claim is proven.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Just suppose that there are Two evil criminals, who were planning to commit horrific crimes.

One of them was able to commit his heinous crime, while the other one died while trying...

This does not mean that the one who died trying is less evil.

This explains why the Punishment of God is according to how evil is the person, not how able was he to commit his crimes..

Except these punishments will also be inflicted upon those who haven't actually done anything wrong. Committed mass genocide? Hellfire for you. (see, this actually is an immoral act; I'm merely putting it here for comparison with what else will gain you hellfire. I'm not arguing that mass genocide is actually moral). Not accepted Islam while alive on Earth because you heard about it but weren't convinced? Hellfire for you. Born a Muslim, realised 'it was all a bunch of nonsense moonlighting as the complete and perfect religion from God' and decided to find another faith or none? Hellfire for you.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
God could also guide us clearly and take away wicked inclinations and he refuses. I needed guidance and the Bible or Koran won't do it for me.

God can guide my thoughts and actions or I'm hopeless. I know you're reading this Mr. God.

If you ever read this Tablet, understanding fully what it means, with sincerity, your difficulties will be solved. The link is below. Here is a portion of this Tablet.

"By God! Should one who is in affliction or grief read this Tablet with absolute sincerity, God will dispel his sadness, solve his difficulties and remove his afflictions." - Baha'u'llah


Tablet of Ahmad
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
In this Day God has sent Baha'u'llah and to those who are well informed that's enough to offer a thousand lives up for and thank God a thousand times with each breath.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Except these punishments will also be inflicted upon those who haven't actually done anything wrong.

I did not say this.

Not accepted Islam while alive on Earth because you heard about it but weren't convinced?

Punishment is for the deniers; Those who know the truth in their inner-self and yet they deny it. Also, for those who found indications about the truth, they need to use what God gave them to find the truth with certainty.[/QUOTE]
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
justice will not be served by stopping them without punishing them.
On the contrary, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Had people been "raised right", they would be less likely to do this stuff in the first place. Sociopaths have malfunctioning mirror neurons, which means they CANNOT feel empathy like normal people. As they have an anatomical problem, this puts everything they do as a result squarely on God. He could have given them functioning neurons. Problem solved and it doesn't remove "choice". You don't create a blind person and then punish them in hell for all eternity because they didn't see they were stepping on your flowers.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
On the contrary, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Had people been "raised right", they would be less likely to do this stuff in the first place. Sociopaths have malfunctioning mirror neurons, which means they CANNOT feel empathy like normal people. As they have an anatomical problem, this puts everything they do as a result squarely on God. He could have given them functioning neurons. Problem solved and it doesn't remove "choice". You don't create a blind person and then punish them in hell for all eternity because they didn't see they were stepping on your flowers.

without going into the specific case of the Sociopaths, and whether they are responsible for their acts or not, it is a fact that there are criminals who are responsible for their crimes and they must be punished for their crimes.

As we love God for his mercy, we must love God for his justice.
 
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