Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

[Bunyip]

With two responses dealt....and you didn't get the 'point'?

Try again....all of you....
Read the Genesis as if you are God.....talking to Moses.
He's an old man who came looking for You.....he came to meet his Maker.....
He came to die.

And you're going to send him back down the mountain with WHAT?
A history lesson for the Jews?
A scientific explanation for the creation of Man?
A photo?....a fingerprint?.....an equation?......
A detailed list of how to make stars?

What do you people think you are asking about?
What do you think you are looking for?

It's a lot easier than what you are doing at this moment.
It's really quite simple.

Sorry, but I can't see how any of that relates to the issue of positing plant life before the sun. So no, I'm sorry but I don't see what point you are trying to make.

 

[metis]

Even though Torah uses "yom" to stand for "day" the vast majority of the time, nevertheless is was sometimes used to signify time in general, such as a thousand years is but a day in the eyes of God.

 

[outhouse]

As to Adam living 930 years or 930 thousand years, both are equally implausible
.

This goes against you actually brother.


It is explainable.


WE know that it was normal for people in these periods to attribute long life spans to people they found important.

They really ment they lived that long. This is a well established tradition.

 

[outhouse]

You actually believe all of the people you just listed are on your side?
Really?

I know they are because I have taken the courses and listened to lectures, and been graded on test.


have you?

 

[outhouse]

With two responses dealt....and you didn't get the 'point'?

Try again....all of you....
Read the Genesis as if you are God.....talking to Moses.
He's an old man who came looking for You.....he came to meet his Maker.....
He came to die.

Except moses does not have any historicity as ever existing. We know the Exodus did not happen as written.

We all know the Canaanite origin of Israelites.

It's a lot easier than what you are doing at this moment.
It's really quite simple.

NO.

That is not how historicity is EVER developed.


This thread deal with history lining up too theology. To date, it has never been done successfully.

 

[Bunyip]

This goes against you actually brother.


It is explainable.


WE know that it was normal for people in these periods to attribute long life spans to people they found important.

They really ment they lived that long. This is a well established tradition.

Could you please explain how that 'goes against me'? Sure Adams age is explainable, and people at the time tended to attribute imaginative life spans to important people. However Adam's lifespan whilst explainable remains implausible.

That Adam's age is explainable does not make it any more plausible.

 

[outhouse]

Could you please explain how that 'goes against me'? Sure Adams age is explainable, and people at the time tended to attribute imaginative life spans to important people. However that is an argument againt the historical accuracy of scripture, not for it.

Agreed.


The only thing it goes against is that I posit they really ment a 24 hour day. The whole resting on the 7th day sort of seals it tightly.

It supports my position that the OT is not a history. And of course Adam's lifespan whilst explainable remains implausible.

Oh agreed fully.

 

[Bunyip]

Agreed.


The only thing it goes against is that I posit they really ment a 24 hour day. The whole resting on the 7th day sort of seals it tightly.






Oh agreed fully.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how Adam's imaginative age supports the argument that the 7 'yom' of creation must be translated as days - I apologise, I must have missed something.

 

[Thief]

Except moses does not have any historicity as ever existing. We know the Exodus did not happen as written.

We all know the Canaanite origin of Israelites.







NO.

That is not how historicity is EVER developed.


This thread deal with history lining up too theology. To date, it has never been done successfully.

To your satisfaction?......as you are still leaning on your crutch?
probably not.

I don't have a problem with Genesis.

Day Six....evolution.
Day Seven ...rest.
THEN Chapter Two.... a story of scientific experiment and manipulation.

no proof.......no history.....no problem.

 

[outhouse]

To your satisfaction?......as you are still leaning on your crutch?
probably not.

I don't have a problem with Genesis.

Day Six....evolution.
Day Seven ...rest.
THEN Chapter Two.... a story of scientific experiment and manipulation.

no proof.......no history.....no problem.

Yes place known mythology before facts twist science into knots trying to wring impossibility out of mythology.

 

[Thief]

Yes place known mythology before facts twist science into knots trying to wring impossibility out of mythology.

I like science.
Too bad you can't turn it into history.
You might learn to believe in Something Greater than yourself.

 

[outhouse]

Welcome to ignore for failing to debate peacefully

 

[Thief]

Peace first!
A requirement for the next life.....so I've heard....somewhere....

(Not a history book, btw)

 

[Bunyip]

I like science.
Too bad you can't turn it into history.
You might learn to believe in Something Greater than yourself.

You seem unwilling to engage in honest debate and instead prefer to deliver oblique non-sequiturs.

As to belief in something greater than ourselves, most atheists (if not all) do believe in a number of things greater than themselves, such as family, community, society, civilisation, the environment, the ecosystem, the planet, the galaxy and so on.

 

[Thief]

You seem unwilling to engage in honest debate and instead prefer to deliver oblique non-sequiturs.

As to belief in something greater than ourselves, most atheists (if not all) do believe in a number of things greater than themselves, such as family, community, society, civilisation, the environment, the ecosystem, the planet, the galaxy and so on.

Honest discussion?...like the one you just posted?
I think you know the thrust of my postings.
You're just going shallow about the retort.

 

[outhouse]

You seem unwilling to engage in honest debate and instead prefer to deliver oblique non-sequiturs.

As to belief in something greater than ourselves, most atheists (if not all) do believe in a number of things greater than themselves, such as family, community, society, civilisation, the environment, the ecosystem, the planet, the galaxy and so on.

Very true.

Some people have a severe lack of comprehensive abilities. The OP asks if mythology can line up to historical reality, yet all of a sudden one cannot argue using history :sarcastic

Creation myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The best-known example of a creation myth is the one found in the Hebrew Bible



There is no credible debate here. Only those who refuse to accept historical reality.

 

[Bunyip]

Honest discussion?...like the one you just posted?
I think you know the thrust of my postings.
You're just going shallow about the retort.

Yes. My post was honest, accurate and directly responds to the argument. Your response was a vague evasion.

If there is a thrust to your postings it is to avoid giving direct answers and instead post vague irrelevancies and non sequiturs.

Please endeavor to engage on point - for example, you asked me to identify where genesis conflicts with reality - I identified the claim that plants came before the sun.

Or if you prefer - you inferred that atheists do not believe in anything greater than themselves, and so I gave the counter examples of family, community, society, civilisation and so because they are all things that atheists tend to believe in.

Would you kindly respond directly to either of those points?

 

[Bunyip]

Very true.

Some people have a severe lack of comprehensive abilities. The OP asks if mythology can line up to historical reality, yet all of a sudden one cannot argue using history :sarcastic

Creation myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The best-known example of a creation myth is the one found in the Hebrew Bible



There is no credible debate here. Only those who refuse to accept historical reality.

Indeed, and thanks.

 

[Thief]

Some people have a severe lack of comprehensive abilities. The OP asks if mythology can line up to historical reality, yet all of a sudden one cannot argue using history :sarcastic



There is no credible debate here. Only those who refuse to accept historical reality.

That's a lie.

The op does not ask for history.

This thread is not about your history soapbox.

This is theology.
and Genesis is all about theology.
Does Genesis hold fast for theologians?.....it does for me.

 

[Bunyip]

That's a lie.

The op does not ask for history.

This thread is not about your history soapbox.

This is theology.
and Genesis is all about theology.
Does Genesis hold fast for theologians?.....it does for me.

You have clearly misread the original topic, it was about whether a LITERAL interpretation of genesis holds up.

So theologically or historically the answer remains no.