Can a person choose to believe?

[URAVIP2ME]

Consider this as the answer. There are no gods. There is no such thing as magic. Supernatural things do not actually exist except in the minds of believers. People can believe what ever they want, but believing doesn't make it real or true.
The fact is, we live in a material world governed by the laws of chemistry and physics. All the supernatural stuff that people believe exists only in their minds since there is no objective way to demonstrate otherwise.

Even some who were godless such as Prof. Antony Flew concluded that " There are evils in abundance which could Not be put down to a consequence of human sin."

Flew also concluded that " DNA research has shown by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangement which are needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved."

So, where there is intelligence isn't there is a mind ?______ Where there is a mind there is a person. Where there is a person there is a personality. Does science say our material world, the universe, had a start or a beginning?________
According to Scripture, God used His ' power and strength ' - His abundant energy - to create the visible realm - Isaiah 40:26

 

[Bunyip]

Even some who were godless such as Prof. Antony Flew concluded that " There are evils in abundance which could Not be put down to a consequence of human sin."

Flew also concluded that " DNA research has shown by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangement which are needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved."

So, where there is intelligence isn't there is a mind ?______ Where there is a mind there is a person. Where there is a person there is a personality. Does science say our material world, the universe, had a start or a beginning?________
According to Scripture, God used His ' power and strength ' - His abundant energy - to create the visible realm - Isaiah 40:26

Well no, that is backwards, minds came later - they are a product of complexity. All of our experience shows that minds came after life.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

You are just confusing opinion with fact like every other atheist, agnostic, evolutionist .

You certainly assert your opinion on the question as if it were a matter of fact.

That the dishes are there in the morning is a factual issue, that you are lazy is a matter of opinion.

How can you be sure that laziness is this case isn't also a matter of fact? Please explain how a sink load of dirty dishes dispels the possibility of inherent laziness?

Doesn't it seem like opting to leave a sink full of dirty dishes until morning is a textbook example of (at the very least) a lazy decision, if not innate laziness?

The existence of God falls in the same category as whether or not you are lazy, it is categorically a matter of opinion

Why doesn't an affirmative belief in the existence of the dishes themselves also fall into the category of opinion? And if not, why?

because it is about agency of a decision. All opinions can only be arrived at by choosing, which means that you are lazy is valid, and that you are not lazy is also a valid conclusion which can be chosen.

Hold on. That there is a sink full of dirty dishes there in the morning (the existence of which you've already affirmed as factual) appears to be the direct result of choosing to not wash them the night before, correct? The "factual issue" appears to be the result of a choice. How can you be so sure that laziness wasn't the cause?

That God exists is a valid conclusion and that God does not exist is a logically valid conclusion.

Based on what? If they're both logically valid conclusions ... exactly what were the premises?

But to be forced by evidence to the conclusion that you are lazy, is logically invalid.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

There's a sink load of dirty dishes that screams out "You're a lazy slob!"

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Then I know for sure all your personal relationships must be out of whack.

A statement like that goes a long way towards explaining why you appear to struggle so mightily with notions of evidence and belief.

Then you require to be forced by evidence to the conclusion that love is real

Undoubtedly, love and hate cause observable, evidential, factual results. But as far as "real" love goes, do you have some evidence that "real" love has a concrete existence? If so, let's see it! What does it look like? What are its exact dimensions?

It means you regard the existence of love and hate as factual issues as well.

No, it does not. Love and hate "exist" as concepts, but do not themselves displace any atmosphere by possessing a physical manifestation of their own. As such, it is absurd to speak of them as "existing" in a literal sense.

as if you can measure love.

I rest my case.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

I guess all the people who've experienced other Gods, equally as powerful as you experienced yours, are...what, wrong? Delusional? Deceived?

Be careful how you answer that, dear

Well honey, I see your point, but in my opinion, we are all communicating with the same God, no matter the religion... A lot of people just think their god is different from my God.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

You're not the only one in this forum with experience. I've had quite a bit myself. It differs from yours, and it tells me I should not trust you.

What's your truth, dear? Christianity is the most followed religion in the world meaning another 2 billion people had my experience as well... not to mention the followers of the other abrahamic religions.

 

[Nietzsche]

Well honey, I see your point, but in my opinion, we are all communicating with the same God, no matter the religion... A lot of people just think their god is different from my God.

Better answer than what I expected.

 

[Nietzsche]

What's your truth, dear? Christianity is the most followed religion in the world meaning another 2 billion people had my experience as well... not to mention the followers of the other abrahamic religions.

Because you killed most of the others.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Evidence for what?

A supernatural being to place their faith in.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

How do you explain the fact that over a billion people do not agree with you. Who has it right ? You or them ? Do you really have the evidence to sweep over a billion people's beliefs aside ?

Well 2 billion people agree with me, not counting the jews and muslims who also worship the one true God of Abraham. Just because someone demands proof for my claims doesn't mean that their belief is true. Jesus is Lord and Savior. Plain and simple. No one can tell me I'm wrong because He literally revealed Himself to me. Do some research on near-death-experiences I guess...

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

Because you killed most of the others.

You think so? Lol.

 

[Nietzsche]

Well 2 billion people agree with me, not counting the jews and muslims who also worship the one true God of Abraham. Just because someone demands proof for my claims doesn't mean that their belief is true. Jesus is Lord and Savior. Plain and simple. No one can tell me I'm wrong because He literally revealed Himself to me. Do some research on near-death-experiences I guess...

NDEs are radically different, tending to conform to the beliefs of the individual experiencing it.

You think so? Lol.

Pretty much. Native Americans(North & South), European Pagans, so on & so forth.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

NDEs are radically different, tending to conform to the beliefs of the individual experiencing it.


Pretty much. Native Americans(North & South), European Pagans, so on & so forth.

Not really, because a lot of people including former atheists and muslims, converted to Christianity after having an NDE.

Christians aren't murdering anybody in this day and age, so where are all the atheists? I'm trying to tell you all that GOD HAS REVEALED HIMSELF TO THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH. That's why the majority of the world's population are theists.

 

[Nietzsche]

Not really, because a lot of people including former atheists and muslims, converted to Christianity after having an NDE.

Those are the ones you hear about. Confirmation bias. You're not going to hear about the people who become Hindus after one, or what have you, because of the culture you live in. It's not intentional, but people tend to only pay attention to things that affirm their beliefs.

Christians aren't murdering anybody in this day and age, so where are all the atheists? I'm trying to tell you all that GOD HAS REVEALED HIMSELF TO THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH. That's why the majority of the world's population are theists.

Yes, about a third of them are polytheists. Also, atheist/agnostics are probably a larger community than what is reported due to societal pressures and other things.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Consider this as the answer. There are no gods. There is no such thing as magic. Supernatural things do not actually exist except in the minds of believers. People can believe what ever they want, but believing doesn't make it real or true.
The fact is, we live in a material world governed by the laws of chemistry and physics. All the supernatural stuff that people believe exists only in their minds since there is no objective way to demonstrate otherwise.

For an atheist saying what they like and dislike is stating facts about what electrochemical informationprocesses are occuring in their brain.

Atheists have no opinions, at all.

Oh how very not smart atheism is.

 

[rstrats]

It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife,
re: "I'm not sure."

OK, sorry. When you wrote: "God reveals Himself to us when we choose to believe in Him" I assumed you were including yourself in the "we".

 

[Right lane]

For an atheist saying what they like and dislike is stating facts about what electrochemical informationprocesses are occuring in their brain.

Atheists have no opinions, at all.

Oh how very not smart atheism is.

Please explain how you go from not believing in magic to not having any opinions at all. The only difference between atheists and you is that, of the millions of gods that have been imagined by man, atheists just believe in one less than you.

 

[rstrats]

Mohammad Nur Syamsu,
re: "Atheists have no opinions, at all."

How so?

 

[rstrats]

Bunyip,
re: "Not religious"

By 'not religious', do you mean that you do not believe in the existence of a sentient higher power?

 

[jonathan180iq]

What do you mean by "turned out to be false"? Are you talking about my hearing an argument or discovering evidence that, in your opinion, ought to have changed my mind?

I choose to view the world from the point of objective reality. It's not always perfect, but I think ultimately there is only one "truth" to existence (and it's not what theists claim to hold the book on). From that aspect, there are all types of beliefs and ideas and amorphic/ethereal concepts that are part of the human condition yet have no substance in objective reality. What that thing is to you, you can choose for yourself.

My point is, if you take whatever that THING (or things) is to you, and compare it to objective reality, and truly understand or grasp that it's a false concept, yet you choose to maintain belief or faith in that concept, then you've chosen belief. There's nothing inherently wrong or bad about it - it just is. It's a choice to believe in something that otherwise has no other basis in reality. Leprechauns, aliens, Bigfoot, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, God, Atlantis, or even just romanticized notions of history, or your favorite fictional character... There is a truth to all of those scenarios, and then there is what we choose to believe about them.