Can a subject exist without predicates?

[raw_thought]

If a subject cannot exist without predicates, then how can we define it?
Without a subject ( substance) for predicates to cling to they are only theoretical abstractions. If without predicates a subject cannot exist, then a subject is only a bundle of abstractions. And reality is not an abstraction.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I'm really sorry but I have trouble understanding what you're asking. My mind is boiled

 

[Sir Doom]

Its the predicate that needs the subject.

 

[Sunstone]

Its the predicate that needs the subject.

As I understand it, that's not true of Japanese. You can write an entire lengthy paragraph without mentioning a subject even once.

 

[Sir Doom]

As I understand it, that's not true of Japanese. You can write an entire lengthy paragraph without mentioning a subject even once.

Could be! I don't know Japanese, myself. I wonder what the Japanese word for 'subject' is...

 

[Sunstone]

Could be! I don't know Japanese, myself. I wonder what the Japanese word for 'subject' is...

I don't know what the word is. My second wife was Japanese, but we're divorced now.

 

[DreadFish]

Well, I'd definitely lean more toward the idea that a subject is dependent on predicates than that predicates are dependent on the subject.

I kind of think that there are no things in the universe, just processes (so, verbs). Every thing is actually a process, since it's all changing.

 

[crossfire]

You can compare what Nagarjuna has to say about it in chapter 1 of his Mulamadhyamaka Karika

I've copied that chapter in this post: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3619618-post5.html

Warning: be sure to have something strong to drink standing by.

 

[Jainarayan]

Grammatically, yes a subject can exist without predicates.

"Who is that in that picture?"
"Me."

"Who broke that dish?"
"Her."

Not traditionally grammatical, but if an exchange can be understood, it's valid.

Can a predicate exist without a subject? Absolutely. Many languages are "pro-drop" (can eliminate a pronoun or subject). French is not pro-drop, English marginally is. In English because verbs are minimally inflected, context is important for understanding the meaning.

"Went to the store last night, bought a book and got butt kicked on the way home by gang-bangers."

 

[BSM1]

If a subject cannot exist without predicates, then how can we define it?
Without a subject ( substance) for predicates to cling to they are only theoretical abstractions. If without predicates a subject cannot exist, then a subject is only a bundle of abstractions. And reality is not an abstraction.

Why..?

 

[Willamena]

Grammatically, yes a subject can exist without predicates.

"Who is that in that picture?"
"Me."

"Who broke that dish?"
"Her."

Not traditionally grammatical, but if an exchange can be understood, it's valid.

Can a predicate exist without a subject? Absolutely. Many languages are "pro-drop" (can eliminate a pronoun or subject). French is not pro-drop, English marginally is. In English because verbs are minimally inflected, context is important for understanding the meaning.

"Went to the store last night, bought a book and got butt kicked on the way home by gang-bangers."

Despite appearances, those subjects do not stand alone.

 

[Jainarayan]

Despite appearances, those subjects do not stand alone.

Hmm... How so? Because they are part of a conversation?

Oh but wait, I do know when a subject can stand alone. Here's an example:

"I ... " followed by when at a loss for words at some posts.

 

[Willamena]

Hmm... How so? Because they are part of a conversation?

Yes. They have context to provide them substance.

Oh but wait, I do know when a subject can stand alone. Here's an example:

"I ... " followed by when at a loss for words at some posts.

Even the facepalm is a verb.

 

[Jainarayan]

Ah ha! All true. Thanks.

 

[raw_thought]

[youtube]Zf0ZyoUn7Vk[/youtube]
Donnie Brasco - Forget About It - YouTube

 

[Valjean]

Does a subject necessarily have to have context or stand alone?
Why can't "wombat!" be a stand-alone subject?

 

[Glaurung]

Can a predicate exist without a subject? Absolutely. Many languages are "pro-drop" (can eliminate a pronoun or subject)

Yes, but is dropping the pronoun really the same thing as dropping the subject? Especially if the absent pronoun is reflected in the verb (such as in Latin) or is just assumed when it is obvious from context? (Japanese)

 

[Revoltingest]

Can a sentence have a subject without a predicate?

Yes.

 

[raw_thought]

Yes, but is dropping the pronoun really the same thing as dropping the subject? Especially if the absent pronoun is reflected in the verb (such as in Latin) or is just assumed when it is obvious from context? (Japanese)

In the case of "wombat" yes! wombat implies wombat type properties ( predicates *).
* short-legged, muscular quadrupedal marsupials that are native to Australia
PS; in a round about way, I am getting at something like this,
http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/sitehtml/unknown/noumena.pdf The site is a little simplistic, but conveys my basic idea. Also the idea that God is being itself. (http://www.philosophyofreligion.inf...ogical-argument/existence-is-not-a-predicate/ )
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=824495
Also see
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/philosophy/164467-why-am-i-me-why-you-2.html