Can an agnostic pray?

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Hi,

I’m not a Christian or believer in any theism. But, sometimes I feel the need to go into a quiet church and pray, either for others or myself. This happens at difficult times, now and then.

There is some logic, possibly irrelevant.

1. A believer can pray because they believe there is a listener.

2. An atheist cannot pray because they do not believe there is a listener.

3. An agnostic can pray because they believe there may (or may not) be a listener.

But what does logic count for? OK, an agnostic can pray because there may be a listener or there may be something therapeutic just in the act of prayer itself. I don’t know, but I do feel something happening.

Any thoughts?

P.

An agnostic is simply one that believes we humans can not know with any certainty whether gods or a god exists.

Yet knowledge and belief are different. Imagine a war wife from the 40s. She did not know from day to day if her husband might have caught a Japanese torpedo or a German bullet, yet she still believed he was alive each morning.

The same goes for religious belief. You can believe but not know, and this is agnostic theism.

I'm pretty certain such people can and do pray to their respective deities.

 

[Philos]

Folks,

I'm beginning to realise how deep this subject goes, and what a great deal of wisdom is here on the forum.

The plan now, is to print out this thread and look more closely at all the replies again on a hard copy. There are common strands between posts, and I don't want to miss or misunderstand such good material.

Thanks again.

P.

 

[viole]

Hi,

I’m not a Christian or believer in any theism. But, sometimes I feel the need to go into a quiet church and pray, either for others or myself. This happens at difficult times, now and then.

There is some logic, possibly irrelevant.

1. A believer can pray because they believe there is a listener.

2. An atheist cannot pray because they do not believe there is a listener.

3. An agnostic can pray because they believe there may (or may not) be a listener.

But what does logic count for? OK, an agnostic can pray because there may be a listener or there may be something therapeutic just in the act of prayer itself. I don’t know, but I do feel something happening.

Any thoughts?

P.

I think many people pray exactly because they know that there is nobody listening. I know several atheists who like to go to a quite church, light a candle, and talk.

If there was someone listening, she might judge. Or tell you what to do, or else you are silly if you don't. And all possible outcomes you might have with a listener.

Incidentally. I found out that when I am confronted with a difficult problem, it helps to talk about it with myself. The only drawback is that my hubby thinks I am crazy. I suspect that when a certain information loops back from vocal chords to our own ears, then different parts of the brain are activated.

In that case, praying would be a useful natural adaptation.

Ciao

- viole

 

[sun rise]

Yes and after visiting some old temples i discover they have an aura, peace and tranquility making them appropriate to open up ones spirit and perhaps pray

When I was on a tour in Italy we went into old churches and cathedrals. I felt there what you wrote about.

 

[Valjean]

Sure we can pray -- we just call it meditation.

We generally don't importune deities for favors, but we do achieve ecstatic states. We might call it getting in touch with ourselves or with Nature, and we might or might not use repetitive phrases.

 

[james bond]

Meditation is for oneself. Prayer is to God. I think you've experienced prayer and it's intuitive for you. Isn't that what intuition and logic are for? Usually they help to answer a question, solve a problem or help make a decision. Your intuition and logic are telling you something about your praying and the church setting helps. In fact, that's a good idea. I haven't been to an empty church to pray for a while. It's usually during service and there are people around. Thanks.

 

[Liu]

Meditation is for oneself. Prayer is to God. I think you've experienced prayer and it's intuitive for you. Isn't that what intuition and logic are for? Usually they help to answer a question, solve a problem or help make a decision. Your intuition and logic are telling you something about your praying and the church setting helps. In fact, that's a good idea. I haven't been to an empty church to pray for a while. It's usually during service and there are people around. Thanks.

There are several religions that don't make such a clear distinction between self and god.

But nevertheless I agree that there is a difference between meditation and prayer, at least in the terminology I use. Meditation is about observing the mind and calming the thought-process. Prayer is about letting the thoughts flow.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

Hi,

I’m not a Christian or believer in any theism. But, sometimes I feel the need to go into a quiet church and pray, either for others or myself. This happens at difficult times, now and then.

There is some logic, possibly irrelevant.

1. A believer can pray because they believe there is a listener.

2. An atheist cannot pray because they do not believe there is a listener.

3. An agnostic can pray because they believe there may (or may not) be a listener.

But what does logic count for? OK, an agnostic can pray because there may be a listener or there may be something therapeutic just in the act of prayer itself. I don’t know, but I do feel something happening.

Any thoughts?

P.

As someone who has been in this situation quite a few times before, I would say it's entirely up to the individual. I am atheist not because I reject the existence of God, but because it is truly unknown if such a deity exists. I find it hard to believe in a entity you can't prove or disprove, so I really am an agnostic atheist (that is a thing, and so is agnostic theism). But I have prayed a few times when I was younger, mostly with my Roman Catholic grandmother, for others, in a church. Those who believe in prayer put their energy into it, and you can very much tell just by being in the room. It's not known if prayer helps all by itself, but if the prayer itself isn't the sole force for good outcomes, the meditation can be quite a relief for some people, and those who believe in miracles, magic or the like may see prayer as a way to give energy to a desired outcome yet to happen. I think it's okay to pray if you think it's the right thing to do, but the choice to do so is a very personal one. Prayer is entirely a matter of faith, which only the individual can determine for themselves.

 

[Segev Moran]

Hi,

Hi

I’m not a Christian or believer in any theism. But, sometimes I feel the need to go into a quiet church and pray, either for others or myself. This happens at difficult times, now and then.

That's great.

There is some logic, possibly irrelevant.

This logic is a bit wrong.

1. A believer can pray because they believe there is a listener.

1. A Believer can pray and believes his prayers are literally being heard by a supreme entity of sort.

2. An atheist cannot pray because they do not believe there is a listener.

2. An Atheist can pray to himself, which is more of hope in a way. He doesn't believe his prayers are head by anyone other than himself.

3. An agnostic can pray because they believe there may (or may not) be a listener.

See 2. Just replace the word atheist.

But what does logic count for? OK, an agnostic can pray because there may be a listener or there may be something therapeutic just in the act of prayer itself. I don’t know, but I do feel something happening.

Of course.
Anything that can provide you with a way to "let go" of fears, to embrace yourself and alike, is probably self-therapeutic.

Meditation,
Sleep ,
Food,
A Talk with a friend

And the list is goes on.

Any thoughts?

P.

Sometimes

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

When I was on a tour in Italy we went into old churches and cathedrals. I felt there what you wrote about.

Smile, it was visiting the old cathedrals of Europe that gave me that viewpoint.

 

[Philos]

Meditation is for oneself. Prayer is to God. I think you've experienced prayer and it's intuitive for you. Isn't that what intuition and logic are for? Usually they help to answer a question, solve a problem or help make a decision. Your intuition and logic are telling you something about your praying and the church setting helps. In fact, that's a good idea. I haven't been to an empty church to pray for a while. It's usually during service and there are people around. Thanks.

James,

Yes, I agree that there is a distinction between meditation and prayer. I have done both and can feel the difference.

P.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Hi,

I’m not a Christian or believer in any theism. But, sometimes I feel the need to go into a quiet church and pray, either for others or myself. This happens at difficult times, now and then.

There is some logic, possibly irrelevant.

1. A believer can pray because they believe there is a listener.

2. An atheist cannot pray because they do not believe there is a listener.

3. An agnostic can pray because they believe there may (or may not) be a listener.

But what does logic count for? OK, an agnostic can pray because there may be a listener or there may be something therapeutic just in the act of prayer itself. I don’t know, but I do feel something happening.

Any thoughts?

P.

I think by definition you are an agnostic atheist.

Of course you can pray.

I sometimes talk to the tv screen when playing a video game, it doesn't do anything but **** if it isn't therapeutic.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I enjoy going and sitting in a church every now and again. It's natural to get an abstract sense of peace and holiness from them - that's how their design evolved over time. We all experience the same things. It's just that some people feel the need to attach extraneous labels and ideas to them - whereas some of us are just fine absorbing the experiences themselves. Different strokes and all.

 

[Dale Gross]

An agnostic is simply one that believes we humans can not know with any certainty whether gods or a god exists.

Yet knowledge and belief are different. Imagine a war wife from the 40s. She did not know from day to day if her husband might have caught a Japanese torpedo or a German bullet, yet she still believed he was alive each morning.

The same goes for religious belief. You can believe but not know, and this is agnostic theism.

I'm pretty certain such people can and do pray to their respective deities.

The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays.
Soren Kierkegaard quotes (Danish Philosopher and Theologian, generally recognized as the first existentialist philosopher. 1813-1855)
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.”

 

[Desert Snake]

I enjoy going and sitting in a church every now and again. It's natural to get an abstract sense of peace and holiness from them - that's how their design evolved over time. We all experience the same things.

Wrong, speak for yourself.

It's just that some people feel the need to attach extraneous labels and ideas to them - whereas some of us are just fine absorbing the experiences themselves. Different strokes and all.

...

 

[Holdasown]

Hi,

I’m not a Christian or believer in any theism. But, sometimes I feel the need to go into a quiet church and pray, either for others or myself. This happens at difficult times, now and then.

There is some logic, possibly irrelevant.

1. A believer can pray because they believe there is a listener.

2. An atheist cannot pray because they do not believe there is a listener.

3. An agnostic can pray because they believe there may (or may not) be a listener.

But what does logic count for? OK, an agnostic can pray because there may be a listener or there may be something therapeutic just in the act of prayer itself. I don’t know, but I do feel something happening.

Any thoughts?

P.

Why do you call what you are doing prayer if you are not petitioning a deity.

 

[Muffled]

Hi,

I’m not a Christian or believer in any theism. But, sometimes I feel the need to go into a quiet church and pray, either for others or myself. This happens at difficult times, now and then.

There is some logic, possibly irrelevant.

1. A believer can pray because they believe there is a listener.

2. An atheist cannot pray because they do not believe there is a listener.

3. An agnostic can pray because they believe there may (or may not) be a listener.

But what does logic count for? OK, an agnostic can pray because there may be a listener or there may be something therapeutic just in the act of prayer itself. I don’t know, but I do feel something happening.

Any thoughts?

P.

My son prayed for a child. He is an avowed atheist but he knows that other people like me believe in God and prayer. He did get a pregnancy but the child didn't make it to life. This is most likely a case of God answering a prayer but never having the intention of providing the child in the end. That reminds me of a story about a man who prayed for his wife to recover from an illness and she did and then died in an auto accident.

 

[Muffled]

Why go to a church to pray?

I believe communal prayer is more powerful.

 

[Muffled]

Hi,

Yes, I was trying to think of an answer to the "why..church?" post and you have answered it perfectly for me.

Also, it doesn't matter to me which religion the church represents, but here in the UK, Christian churches are common, usually open and almost always empty. There are candles which we can light, to help focus on the loved one or the subject of the prayer.

I am almost certain that I am not praying to the 'Christian' God, but have some notion that whatever the metaphysics is, I am addressing it directly. Your words "..open up ones spirit" are most encouraging.

Thank you,

P.

I believe God hears everything so even prayers that go to Mary and saints, although they can't do anything, God hears and can answer if He wishes.

 

[KingSolomon]

Anyone can pray if they want to

Great answer. I'm a nontheist and when I am at a religious service, I pray. That is, I act in a way that makes me one with the congregation and praying the words puts me in touch with thousands of years of human aspirations. If you don't believein a deity, you can still pray with the community as part of it