Can animals attain moksha?

[Breathe]

Hey all!

I was wondering (since there are many other threads on animals, I thought I would open one! ), can animals attain moksha/moksa/mukti/nirvana, or otherwise achieve release from the cycle of reincarnation/rebirth?

 

[Madhuri]

The following is simply my vedic belief:

All souls are equal and subject to the same process of consciousness evolution. To attain liberation individually, it is generally required that the individual do so from a higher level of consciousness. The individual must be able to partake in the processes that lead to realisation such as meditation etc. Animals aren't very good at this...
However, it is apparently possible to attain liberation if given the mercy of an already liberated and/or divine personality or dying in some fortunate spiritually significant way. Whether this is true or not I do not know.

 

[S-word]

Yes, in the process of evolution, mankind was created by the spirits which have ascended through the animal kingdom, and there are those in the body of Mankind in who dwell the spirits of their animal ancestors who will attain liberation.

 

[Engyo]

Hey all!

I was wondering (since there are many other threads on animals, I thought I would open one! ), can animals attain moksha/moksa/mukti/nirvana, or otherwise achieve release from the cycle of reincarnation/rebirth?

From my perspective, this is not possible to animals as animals; however each has the potential to be reborn as a human or other being with the ability to make concious choices and thus work to achieve awakening.

 

[Breathe]

From my perspective, this is not possible to animals as animals; however each has the potential to be reborn as a human or other being with the ability to make concious choices and thus work to achieve awakening.

It seems quite universal that Buddhists believe that animals cannot attain awakening, but I was wondering whether this would apply to all animals - or if some animals (chimps, apes, orang-utans, dolphins, whales etc) would be able to or would still be unable to - and where the line of awakening is between non-awakening life form and awakening-lifeform. Weird questions, I know





With the other Dharmic religions (such as Hinduism) when they view everything as having the soul of God, I'm not sure if they can achieve moksha because of this (or if like Buddhism they cannot because of their ability not to make conscious choices?)?

 

[Engyo]

It seems quite universal that Buddhists believe that animals cannot attain awakening, but I was wondering whether this would apply to all animals - or if some animals (chimps, apes, orang-utans, dolphins, whales etc) would be able to or would still be unable to - and where the line of awakening is between non-awakening life form and awakening-lifeform. Weird questions, I know

Hi, Odion -

I'm not sure we understand the intelligence of the higher marine mammals enough to figure this question out yet. It seems fairly safe to say that the great apes may be on the edge of such understanding but have not yet crossed over.........as best as we are able to tell right now.

 

[Tiapan]

Why do we assume either is correct.

 

[Breathe]

Why do we assume either is correct.

Wh-er.. huh?

 

[Tiapan]

Why do we assume either is correct.

Odion Online!
Wh-er.. huh?

Surely the question of whether an animal can attain Moksa? is either a yes or no response?

But if the premise of attaining moksha/moksa/mukti/nirvana, or otherwise achieve release from the cycle of reincarnation/rebirth is false, then the question is nonsense and has no answer.

 

[Breathe]

Because this is the DIR, for the DHARMIC RELIGIONS, perhaps?

I understand what you are asking - but this isn't the place for it. Regardless of as you say the "premise of attaining moksha/moksa/mukti/nirvana", we must ask according to the belief of the Dharmic religions and their followers.

 

[Tiapan]

In that case can I ask if nations, religions and multinational companies are regarded as superior lifeforms that fit into the Dharmic formulea?

 

[Madhuri]

I'm not really sure of what you are asking Tiapan.

 

[Breathe]

I'm not really sure of what you are asking Tiapan.

Me too..
I think it's something like "do religions and companies have a soul?"? ??

 

[Tiapan]

Yes, and nations, do cooperative societies have a super soul, a combination of the individual souls sort of a socialist collective?

 

[Engyo]

I personally believe that groups of people have collective karma; whether that is something that works on its own, or whether it is a function of all of their individual karmas being similar is something I am unclear on. Do people become part of certain groups because they have similar karma, or do the groups have what looks like group karma because of the individuals making similar causes? This is not something that Buddhist teachings focus on in any detail that I am aware of. Understand that karma and "soul" are vastly different concepts as well.

 

[Madhuri]

Yes, and nations, do cooperative societies have a super soul, a combination of the individual souls sort of a socialist collective?

A thing that lives has a soul. Every soul has a super soul (God within the soul). An organisation or a nation does not have a soul- that would make it an individual personality with consciousness.

 

[nameless]

A soul gets its body according to its consciousness level, and human consciousness is the path towards moksha or liberation. As the word indicates its all about liberation from desires. Only human beings are capable to act against his nature and bring his mind under his control, whereas animal mind is fully controlled by nature.

 

[RamaRaksha]

Yes I do believe that animals can attain Moksha. Hindus believe that Atma is eternal and the body, be that may be of a human, animal or other form, is only temporary. And so, one may be born as a human and then be reborn as an animal and then as some other life form also. God will decide when we are ready to attain Moksha.

"A soul gets its body according to its consciousness level, and human consciousness is the path towards moksha or liberation. As the word indicates its all about liberation from desires. Only human beings are capable to act against his nature and bring his mind under his control, whereas animal mind is fully controlled by nature."

I am not sure I fully agree with this. The first part is just our conjucture, we don't know if this is what is happening. The second part of being liberated from desires totally baffles me. If anything, an animals is totally liberated from desires, it is we humans that struggle with them. For example let's take the lowly ant. The warrior ant will die defending its colony. It could get its head cut off but it will continue to fight. Does it know what is at stake? Not really. How about the worker ant? It goes about its business of gathering food for the colony. You could step on it and break it's leg, but it will simply get up and continue on its work. If it dies, its coworkers will simply eat it. There are no consious attachments. Like robots they go about their daily life and fulfil their karma without desires or attachments. And this gets you Moksha?

I don't believe so. The path to Moksha is by embracing life. Embrace your desires, yet not be controlled by them. All the pujas, all the prayers, all the money given to places of worship do not equal one act of kindness. If and when you die, people see that as a loss, then you are well one you way to Moksha.

 

[Valjean]

I don't think there have been any empirical, scientific studies of this, so we're pretty much left with folklore.
I think most hold that samadhi is a human consciousness. Some might not exclude the human precursor species, though.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't think there have been any empirical, scientific studies of this, so we're pretty much left with folklore.
I think most hold that samadhi is a human consciousness. Some might not exclude the human precursor species, though.

I'd say this is the most realistic answer to the posed question. If animals have attained this legendary state they have not been especially adept at showing it -- then again, neither have many human animals. :flirt: