Can any here offer a solution to the middle east conflicts between Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah?

[oldbadger]

Nearly everybody here hopes that all innocent civilians in Israel, Lebanon and Gaza may be supported, protected, in safety, rehomed and given food, water and medical supplies.

Each side hates the other fiercely.
So can anybody here offer any suggestions for ending these dreadful conflicts?

....because I have not got a clue.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Prosperity, freedom and secular education. Seemed to work in Northern Ireland..

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Nor have I, sadly. The one thing I feel sure of is that no nation outside of that conflict is every going to do any good at all by taking sides with one party or the other. Until all parties come to acknowledge that Israeli Jews and Muslim and Christian Palestinians will not give up on each having their own homeland over which they have full sovereignty, the fighting will continue. Unless, of course, one side completely annihilates the other in an act of horrendous genocide. And by all parties, I include the Israelis accepting that Palestinians want sovereignty over themselves, and Palestians accept that Israelis are never going to come to peace with any nation that exists -- in part -- to exterminate Israel.

How to do all that? I wish I knew...

 

[Jimmy]

As I’ve said before, the only thing I can think of is for the leaders on both sides to sit around a table and start communicating with one another about how peace can be achieved.

At first I supported peace then I supported the Arabs then I supported the Jews now I’m back to supporting both sides and peace. I feel a whole lot better now that I’m not taking sides. I have peace within.

 

[LuisDantas]

I do have an idea. Of course, it is easy for me to have ideas half a world removed and with no visibility nor power to speak of.

I think it is necessary to cultivate mutual acceptance in both sides, and it is far harder to achieve than it is usually admitted.

I know that it is a very hard sell, but I would encourage very open diplomatic pressure with some sort of incentives (probably of a financial nature) in exchange for acceptance of... well, of a mutual limited-period hostage program with pre-established goals of geometric progression for numbers of people, period of time, or both.

Apparently against the grain, I do not support seeking sovereignity. I do not believe that sovereignity exists or is worth of any attention whatsoever, for anyone. Same with self-determination and even nationality. Those are political fictions and I do not like to waste time with political fictions. I am not hoping for a two-state solution, mainly because I think that has been tried repeatedly since 1947 and has become quite the poisoned pill, particularly for the Arabs.

I do believe that there will be no peace in the Middle East while Israel is surrounded by Muslim communities, and that the only true solution is to talk people out of Islam entirely. I do not expect to earn friends among Arabs or Muslims by saying as much.

Regardless, there is an essential assymetry at work here that must be addressed. Israel has undeniable military superiority and as result received much (IMO far too much) of the criticism. That may be somewhat understandable, but I also think that it is very naive and unfair.

Yasser Arafat famously said that "The womb of the Arab woman (was his) my strongest weapon." I can hardly find it in me to condone Israel's recent massacres, but it is not like the neighbors have consistently been reasonable.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I do believe that there will be no peace in the Middle East while Israel is surrounded by Muslim communities, and that the only true solution is to talk people out of Islam entirely.

In Israel, whether one walks north, east, or south, sooner or later one arrives at a place where one acknowledges: "Beyond here is no longer Israel." Depending on direction, one would be referring to Lebanon or Syria or Jordan or Egypt - each unique.

As I see it, my primary task is not to to talk a diverse people out of Islam, but to talk "my people" out of supporting a malignant regime that is focused on fulminating hate and staying in power. That is really, really hard.

 

[oldbadger]

Prosperity, freedom and secular education. Seemed to work in Northern Ireland..

Thanks, Wandering Monk.
What a good point.... I used to visit Northern Ireland 30 years ago and at that time I never believed that there could ever be any chance of any kind of peace.

I once asked a bunch of N.I. cops if it may help if Protestant kids might all be taught N.Irish Gaelic so that the whole country might have one language together in future. The whole group (who were my polite hosts) really struggled to keep their tempers down! I didn't think there was any chance for N.I..

Maybe the World could pump money in to the problem?

 

[oldbadger]

Nor have I, sadly. The one thing I feel sure of is that no nation outside of that conflict is every going to do any good at all by taking sides with one party or the other. Until all parties come to acknowledge that Israeli Jews and Muslim and Christian Palestinians will not give up on each having their own homeland over which they have full sovereignty, the fighting will continue. Unless, of course, one side completely annihilates the other in an act of horrendous genocide. And by all parties, I include the Israelis accepting that Palestinians want sovereignty over themselves, and Palestians accept that Israelis are never going to come to peace with any nation that exists -- in part -- to exterminate Israel.

How to do all that? I wish I knew...

If only miracles could be real, EH....eh?

Much of Islam seems to be stubbornly determined towards hatred, and the Israeli government isn't helping at all, methinks.
I must look to see when the next Israeli election is.

 

[oldbadger]

I do have an idea. Of course, it is easy for me to have ideas half a world removed and with no visibility nor power to speak of.

I think it is necessary to cultivate mutual acceptance in both sides, and it is far harder to achieve than it is usually admitted.

I know that it is a very hard sell, but I would encourage very open diplomatic pressure with some sort of incentives (probably of a financial nature) in exchange for acceptance of... well, of a mutual limited-period hostage program with pre-established goals of geometric progression for numbers of people, period of time, or both.

Excuse me for reducing your post size, but it looks to me as if the kernel of your idea lies in the above......

That's not so far from Wandering Monk's suggestion.

That there is some kind of peace in Northern Ireland today is the closest example of a possible resolution for Israel/Palestine, maybe? But it's a problem many times bigger than N.I.....

 

[oldbadger]

In Israel, whether one walks north, east, or south, sooner or later one arrives at a place where one acknowledges: "Beyond here is no longer Israel." Depending on direction, one would be referring to Lebanon or Syria or Jordan or Egypt - each unique.

As I see it, my primary task is not to to talk a diverse people out of Islam, but to talk "my people" out of supporting a malignant regime that is focused on fulminating hate and staying in power. That is really, really hard.

I only hope that Israel's neighbouring countries might do their best to reduce terrorist activities against Israel, together with your suggestion for your people.

Israel's next general election is two years away, I notice, but I've always heard that Israel's government is built by coalition of many political factions, and I wonder if it might lose it's authority earlier than that?

 

[John53]

Nearly everybody here hopes that all innocent civilians in Israel, Lebanon and Gaza may be supported, protected, in safety, rehomed and given food, water and medical supplies.

Each side hates the other fiercely.
So can anybody here offer any suggestions for ending these dreadful conflicts?

....because I have not got a clue.

I have no clue but it would be a start if they stopped hating each other. It would even be a small start if the supporters of each side on this forum could give that a try instead of claiming the other side is more evil.

I live in hope the younger generation are smarter than us and will give peace a chance.

 

[Tomef]

Nearly everybody here hopes that all innocent civilians in Israel, Lebanon and Gaza may be supported, protected, in safety, rehomed and given food, water and medical supplies.

Each side hates the other fiercely.
So can anybody here offer any suggestions for ending these dreadful conflicts?

....because I have not got a clue.

It could be that strengthening trade and political ties between KSA, the Emirates, Oman and Israel will, in the longer term, make the region more stable. Hamas indicated some recognition of this in their October 7th attack, their stated intent being to derail that potential development as they fear it would mean the Palestinian question would be sidelined, which is probably true. I think any direct cessation of hostilities between Israel and Palestine is pretty much impossible. It didn't just begin with the creation of Israel, muslims and jews have been killing each other in that region for centuries.

 

[oldbadger]

It could be that strengthening trade and political ties between KSA, the Emirates, Oman and Israel will, in the longer term, make the region more stable. Hamas indicated some recognition of this in their October 7th attack, their stated intent being to derail that potential development as they fear it would mean the Palestinian question would be sidelined, which is probably true. I think any direct cessation of hostilities between Israel and Palestine is pretty much impossible. It didn't just begin with the creation of Israel, muslims and jews have been killing each other in that region for centuries.

You didn't include Iran's interest in your post....... but how to eliminate deep religious and political hatred between enemies like these does indeed look like the unanswerable question.

That's how we British and Irish viewed the troubles in Northern Ireland, and it seemed to me that one of the biggest factors in peace negotiations there was that the opposing factions were tired out with hating and war.

 

[oldbadger]

I have no clue but it would be a start if they stopped hating each other.

Surely, that would be wonderful.

I knew a bit about the hatreds in N.Ireland, and very few of the people felt much inclined towards any kind of understanding or love towards the others. The history of wrongs and terrors spread back for hundreds of years, and yet there is a kind of peace over there at this time.

Over 20 years ago I used to travel around Belfast to photograph the street murals, and one which I would like to show here (later) was of an Catholic provisional IRA warrior and an Islamic Palestinian warrior saluting each other.....each side acknowledging the struggles of the other, because that was how the Catholics of Northern Ireland felt. Now if there can be a form of peace over there, maybe there can be in the Middle East, but EVERYBODY is now represented in the N.I.Parliament. The people of Gaza and West Bank do deserve their own grounds and governments, but they need to be more careful about who they choose to lead them, maybe?

 

[icehorse]

Nearly everybody here hopes that all innocent civilians in Israel, Lebanon and Gaza may be supported, protected, in safety, rehomed and given food, water and medical supplies.

Each side hates the other fiercely.
So can anybody here offer any suggestions for ending these dreadful conflicts?

....because I have not got a clue.

There is a strong colonialist faction in Islam. Muslims must admit this, call it out, banish it, and the UN must stop its not-so-subtle support of it.

 

[oldbadger]

There is a strong colonialist faction in Islam. Muslims must admit this, call it out, banish it, and the UN must stop its not-so-subtle support of it.

Can you tell me about this.....
What Muslims are trying to take control of what countries?

I can't understand the concept of a colonialist Muslim. We have many Muslims where I live but they are a part of our community, is that what you mean by 'colonialist'?

 

[icehorse]

Can you tell me about this.....
What Muslims are trying to take control of what countries?

I can't understand the concept of a colonialist Muslim. We have many Muslims where I live but they are a part of our community, is that what you mean by 'colonialist'?

First off, thank you for a civil set of questions, that's rare on RF!

These days "in the west" it's popular to paint the world in simplistic "oppressed vs. oppressor" terms. And so white people are the "oppressors" and brown and black people are the "oppressed". While that's sometimes true, it's often not.

Islam spread throughout North Africa and the ME and southern Asia via violent colonization. Islam is not unique in that regard, but we need to admit that Islam has always been a colonizing, political movement.

More recently, Islam has "cleansed" almost the entire ME of non-Muslims. The one exception is Israel. So this is modern day Islamic colonization in action. The coptics have largely been driven out. Same with the Jews (apart from Israel). Same with the Kurds and the Yazidis and so on.

And what we're seeing in Europe - as the number of Muslims grows to a critical mass - is that Islam is trying to subvert European cultures. When Muslims are new and few to an area they claim weakness, and cry "Islamophobia". As they grow in numbers, they frequently engage in trying to spread Islamic theocracy. I would call this a form of colonialism.

 

[oldbadger]

First off, thank you for a civil set of questions, that's rare on RF!

Thank you for that.

These days "in the west" it's popular to paint the world in simplistic "oppressed vs. oppressor" terms. And so white people are the "oppressors" and brown and black people are the "oppressed". While that's sometimes true, it's often not.

Islam spread throughout North Africa and the ME and southern Asia via violent colonization. Islam is not unique in that regard, but we need to admit that Islam has always been a colonizing, political movement.

Like Christianity, Islam is an evangelising religion, and 'yes', both these have taken control of so many parts of the World.

More recently, Islam has "cleansed" almost the entire ME of non-Muslims. The one exception is Israel. So this is modern day Islamic colonization in action. The coptics have largely been driven out. Same with the Jews (apart from Israel). Same with the Kurds and the Yazidis and so on.

The Middle East was the birth place of Islam, hundreds of years ago. I don't know how Islam and Judaism became to be so much at odds, but today we can only hope that peaceful resolution is born.

And what we're seeing in Europe - as the number of Muslims grows to a critical mass - is that Islam is trying to subvert European cultures. When Muslims are new and few to an area they claim weakness, and cry "Islamophobia". As they grow in numbers, they frequently engage in trying to spread Islamic theocracy. I would call this a form of colonialism.

I have known many Muslims in the UK, I worked with them. Most young Muslim men here that I knew liked smart clothes, a decent motor and a good job, some 'cred', etc..... They looked like secular Muslims to me.

Let's hope that peaceful advances can work where hatred has existed for so long, yes?

 

[oldbadger]

About 20 years ago, wandering through the streets of Belfast I saw this street Mural amongst others. It showed how Catholics thought about their situation as being similar to the people of Gaza. The Catholics had formed 'military' style units to protect their streets and estates from Protestant aggression and they were very much in the minority in Northern Ireland. A catholic artist painted this mural to show all, and a Catholic warrior is shown, saluting a Gazan defender, together with the flags of both groups. But that must have been before Hamas governed, a few years before.

I can only hope that the kind of diplomacy which brought some peace to Northern Ireland might find its way to Israel, Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon and other M.E. countries.

 

[Balthazzar]

What's the standard for those in Hamas? Expectations would seem relevant to what would be required for all this to be settled apart from conflict. Are they religious? I'm sure they are. We know Israel has their own apart from Islam. It's not just about hatred from what I understand, but about sense of duty and obligation, and I think this is true for both sides. Would it end with Israel? If not, then what would be likely to happen in future years if not in process already?

World government and control and efforts made to get communities in check and religion and God and hate and territory and civilians and families, and centuries of conflict all variables contributing to the continuation of the conflicts...

So ...

No, I don't have any idea how this might be resolved any time soon or even peacefully (unfortunately).

I would prefer peace, but this doesn't appear to be a very favorable position among several world leaders at the moment.

Unfortunately

(Again)