Can Anyone Give a Legitimate Non-Religious Reasons Against Gay Marriage

[The Voice of Reason]

Well, I wasn't talking about him specifically. That was more of a general joke not directed at Watchmen.

My bad. I didn't mean to drag you into this one.

Sorry about that.

 

[Starfish]

And also Starfish..I dont understand what you mean by what a "real man" is?..(in the context of this discussion)

Can you define?

Love

Dallas

And also...What is "womahood" in the context of this discussion?

Love

Dallas

Glad to.
A real man accepts responsibility. He puts his family's interests before his own wants/needs. A real man values honor and integrity. A real man teaches his children that men can be kind, loving, tender, fun, and above all, trusted. And if he is religious and wants his children to be likewise, he will be the model they need to be able to relate to their Father in Heaven.

Womanhood is valuing a woman's vital place in the home, family and in society. True womanhood is found in strength and honor, tenderness and loyalty. And if a woman has children, she teaches them by example that mothers are God's gift to the world.

 

[Starfish]

Yes that is possible..And it is fantastic and beautiful. And you go on and do that....But that is NOT the only possiblitly or scenerio of raising well adjusted..happy ..healthy loving children...who go on to live productive and fruitful lives...

Love

Dallas

But it's the one with the best odds. Why gamble unnecessarily with children's lives to suit whims? Mothers are not fathers. Fathers are not mothers. One cannot equally substitute for the other.

 

[Starfish]

What does delaying sex have to do with anything?

And BTW, you've often used "the stern hand of the father and the nurturing hand of the mother" argument before...

Have you ever considered the stern hand of the mother and the nurturing hand of the father? Ever hear of tomboys? Or feminine men such as myself? (the only things that make me a man is my sexual organ; otherwise I'm a woman) Do you shun me for that? Should I not be allowed to have children? But what if my wife is a tomboy? It equals out then.

The basis for your arguments are gender roles that don't exist anymore.

I think you forget that nothing in this world lasts forever. As hard as change is, it is inevitable, and if we don't adapt, we die. Even tradition is subject to inevitable change. And there's NO REASON to try to hang on to values that no longer exist in reality.

Pride has no place in this ever-changing world.

Not my quote.

 

[Reverend Rick]

But it's the one with the best odds. Why gamble unnecessarily with children's lives to suit whims? Mothers are not fathers. Fathers are not mothers. One cannot equally substitute for the other.

Starfish, any time a spouse dies, we do exactly that. Mom's become Dad's and Dad's become moms. Perhaps a Grandfather or Uncle fills in the gaps. Perhaps a Grandmother or Aunt.

Families come in all shapes and sizes. The members of the family are not as important as the commitment to raising children is.

 

[Green Gaia]

Starfish, any time a spouse dies, we do exactly that. Mom's become Dad's and Dad's become moms. Perhaps a Grandfather or Uncle fills in the gaps. Perhaps a Grandmother or Aunt.

Families come in all shapes and sizes. The members of the family are not as important as the commitment to raising children is.

I agree, Rick. So why is it that just us gay parents who get this thrown in our faces when we are doing what every other parent/guardian is doing? Just trying to raise our kids the best and most loving way we can with what we're given.

 

[Starfish]

Starfish, any time a spouse dies, we do exactly that. Mom's become Dad's and Dad's become moms. Perhaps a Grandfather or Uncle fills in the gaps. Perhaps a Grandmother or Aunt.

Families come in all shapes and sizes. The members of the family are not as important as the commitment to raising children is.

Of course, RR.

As I've said, that was my life, raised by my dad after my mother died. Others did fill in as best they could. I had the best grandparents and I adored my aunts and uncles. Not to mention my best friend's mom and my 4-H teacher. They all impacted my life. But I missed out not having my mother. There was just no substitute for her.

I think we should TRY to give our kids the best. Then if circumstances happen, we do our best with what we have, as in my case. We have to TRY. My parents planned for and did their best to give me a home with a mom and a dad. They didn't purposely bring me into the world, to only give me a father. See the difference?

 

[Father Heathen]

Heh, I love how they grasp for straws in futile desperation for "non-religious reasons" against gay marriage.

 

[Reverend Rick]

why is it that just us gay parents who get this thrown in our faces when we are doing what every other parent/guardian is doing?

You know the reason better than I.

Good parents come in all shapes and sizes. So do bad parents. All a child really needs in this life is love and someone who cares about them each and every day.

What really floors me is people think children are some robot to program. My Son converted to Catholicism and my daughter is an extreme Liberal. Preachers kids, both of them. I cannot love them any more than I do. I'm proud of them.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark. Could it be that some people think that a gay couple will raise gay children? If this where true, what happened to my kids? Better yet, if you raise gay children, does that mean your gay too? :rainbow1:

 

[Father Heathen]

You know the reason better than I.

Good parents come in all shapes and sizes. So do bad parents. All a child really needs in this life is love and someone who cares about them each and every day.

What really floors me is people think children are some robot to program. My Son converted to Catholicism and my daughter is an extreme Liberal. Preachers kids, both of them. I cannot love them any more than I do. I'm proud of them.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark. Could it be that some people think that a gay couple will raise gay children? If this where true, what happened to my kids? Better yet, if you raise gay children, does that mean your gay too? :rainbow1:

Maybe deep down, you're an extreme liberal yourself.

 

[Green Gaia]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark. Could it be that some people think that a gay couple will raise gay children? If this where true, what happened to my kids? Better yet, if you raise gay children, does that mean your gay too? :rainbow1:

If that is true, does that mean my parents are gay? I'm sure they will be quite shocked to hear that after 35 years of marriage, lol.

 

[dawny0826]

I can't give a non-religious reason against gay marriage.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Maybe deep down, you're an extreme liberal yourself.

You have discovered the truth FH. I'm a closet Liberal.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think we should TRY to give our kids the best. Then if circumstances happen, we do our best with what we have, as in my case. We have to TRY. My parents planned for and did their best to give me a home with a mom and a dad. They didn't purposely bring me into the world, to only give me a father. See the difference?

And in the case of children raised by same-sex couples, you think that "the best" is to keep the familial protections and benefits of marriage from them?

 

[Autodidact]

But it's the one with the best odds. Why gamble unnecessarily with children's lives to suit whims? Mothers are not fathers. Fathers are not mothers. One cannot equally substitute for the other.

No it's not. Yes, they can. Got any data, or just your unsupported and highly biased opinion?

 

[Autodidact]

Of course, RR.

As I've said, that was my life, raised by my dad after my mother died. Others did fill in as best they could. I had the best grandparents and I adored my aunts and uncles. Not to mention my best friend's mom and my 4-H teacher. They all impacted my life. But I missed out not having my mother. There was just no substitute for her.

I think we should TRY to give our kids the best. Then if circumstances happen, we do our best with what we have, as in my case. We have to TRY. My parents planned for and did their best to give me a home with a mom and a dad. They didn't purposely bring me into the world, to only give me a father. See the difference?

Yes, the difference is that two gay parents are just as good as two straight parents. The difference is that saying that gay parents are not as good as straight parents is a lie. If you want to model morality, you should stop doing it. Now.

 

[Father Heathen]

Sexual orientation is not a "whim". Religious superstition, however, is.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

You have discovered the truth FH. I'm a closet Liberal.

While we are revealing our darkest family secrets, I want to come out of the closet right now - I adore George W. Bush and all he stands for.

 

[Father Heathen]

While we are revealing our darkest family secrets, I want to come out of the closet right now - I adore George W. Bush and all he stands for.

And I a Fundamentalist Christian trying to use reverse psychology.

 

[idea]

I did not read the entire thread, so I do not know if this has been said yet or not… Personally, I see it as making friendships harder to come by. I mean growing up we used to have slumber parties etc… and it was safe if it was not co-ed. Now any type of sleepover is pretty much co-ed… Before sodomy was made legal by the supreme court in 2003 (not that long ago) homosexuality was so rare as to be almost non-existent. You could hang out with people of the same sex and be friends with them – not have to worry about them coming on to you. Now there is no friendships. Every relationship for the next generation will be under the suspicion of the other wanting some sexual favor out of it. IOW – it has destroyed friendships.

Another point, yes I have seen all the biased data that G/L groups hand select to try and say that kids do OK in their households. The truth is all adopted kids do not do as well as kids raised by their biological parents. Adopted kids have enough to deal with already…

Another truth, heterosexual kids need heterosexual attention. No, not sex, I’m talking about all the studies that show that (heterosexual) girls raised without a strong father figure seek inappropriate attention from other males. Girls without father figures do horribly in school, have low self-worth, etc. etc. (Visa versa with boys although there is not as much data on it as so many kids are raised by single moms. ) Homosexuals obviously do not understand the needs of heterosexual children. Most children are heterosexual.