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Can Anyone Give a Legitimate Non-Religious Reasons Against Gay Marriage

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I WISH I did have the power to force more responsibility into adults. I WISH I could eliminate unwed pregnancies and abusive homes. I WISH I could ensure all children "dreamy wonderful" parents. The best any of us can do is live our own lives responsibly, to do our best to give our children all that they deserve, and to speak out to anyone who will listen. It's a losing battle, nonetheless. We're already on that slippery slope.

Actually, one way to do this is to support gay parenting. Lesbians and gay people become parents by choice, unlike the irresponsible heterosexuals that you WISH you could change. I WISH I could too, but it's hard to do. What I can do is to support the responsible decisions of the gay parents who plan, choose, decide and commit to parenting, including taking care of the kids abandoned and mistreated by those same irresponsible heterosexuals. Got a study comparing them to the children of gay parents?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Permitting more people to marry does not change the definition of marriage. The definition of marriage is the rights, responsibilities and legal consequences of marrying. Permitting same-sex marriage does not change this, and calling it that is basically dishonest. It's an attempt to frame the issue as something it isn't. This is a cheap, bully tactic, and attempt to win the argument by hiding what it's really about.

Please explain how, if gay people cannot marry, they still have all the rights? If you are prohibited from marrying, do you have all the rights?

Auto...its not about that..its about children..and making sure they have the best chance in the world..

Love

Dallas
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Auto...its not about that..its about children..and making sure they have the best chance in the world..

Love

Dallas

Supporting gay parenting does that. Supporting gay marriage allows the parents of gay children to marry, which I'm guessing most would think is a good thing.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Supporting gay parenting does that. Supporting gay marriage allows the parents of gay children to marry, which I'm guessing most would think is a good thing.

I realize that Auto..Thats why Im in full support of gay marriage.. :yes:

(well one of the reasons anyway)...The main reason is its 100% none of my business if to gay people want to get married..And I see ZERO negative consequences to me..or anyone else as a result of that..Besides the poor(gay) slobs that do choose to get married that grow to not be able to stand each other and get divorced..Or live miserably till they die..Like many heteros do currently...Thats the only possible harmful affect I see..(for a %)...But its not up to me to tell someone they cant take that risk...Same as its not up to me to tell ANYONE not to risk it..

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Its a clear double talking conversation..And its clear as day whats beign said..Children are better off being raised by one man and one woman..(even if they suck as parents)..NEXT children are better off beign raised by a sinlge woman..or a single man...(even if they suck as parents)...But children REALLY suffer(the worst) if they are raised by two gay women..or two gay men..

Ya'll are at the bottom of the totem pole...

Thats why the( radical) IMHO law in Florida..they fixed it to where you have to be married if you live with someone to adopt..But gay marriage is illegall..So IOW if you cohabitate (live as married) and are gay your punishment is you cant adopt childrern..But in order to get that done without it beign blaringly obvious there intent..Was to include any cohabitatin couple same sex or opposite sex...

Am I correct on that?

Love

Dallas
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Further research in support of my position, that neither of us could accuse of bias:

Not all nonmarried families are alike, however. In particular, teenagers living with their single mothers and with at least one grandparent in multigenerational households have developmental outcomes that are at least as good and often better than the outcomes of teenagers in married families.
from here.
What matters is the quality and quantity of parenting, not age or gender.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
Permitting more people to marry does not change the definition of marriage. The definition of marriage is the rights, responsibilities and legal consequences of marrying. Permitting same-sex marriage does not change this, and calling it that is basically dishonest. It's an attempt to frame the issue as something it isn't. This is a cheap, bully tactic, and attempt to win the argument by hiding what it's really about.

Please explain how, if gay people cannot marry, they still have all the rights? If you are prohibited from marrying, do you have all the rights?
I'm sure I'm not saying anything new here.

Civil unions, family partnerships, etc. Is it written anywhere that marriage is a right?

Any one man can marry any one woman, within limits. Same for all.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Further research in support of my position, that neither of us could accuse of bias:

from here.
What matters is the quality and quantity of parenting, not age or gender.

What children need is to be loved..And respected as people..Period...

Children arent pets..Or something you have to enrich you own selfish desires..Except you have a desire to give them love..Because you have enough to give...

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Any one man can marry any one woman, within limits. Same for all.

Right..I think you have to be a man and a woman..17(still children IMHO)...and no closer than 1st cousins (in states like Pensylvania)...and then you can go on and have 1-infinity children..

Love

Dallas
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
btw, Starfish, research does indicate that there is a negative correlation between family size and childhood outcome. Should society try to control how many children people have?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I'm sure I'm not saying anything new here.

Civil unions, family partnerships, etc. Is it written anywhere that marriage is a right?
Yes, The Supreme Court (and many state courts) have held that marriage is a fundamental right. But since you don't think it is, I'm sure you won't mind giving it up.

Any one man can marry any one woman, within limits. Same for all.
Doh. How is this helpful?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
OH..And if you are Brittiany Spears?? You can get married as a party trick...Ya know..get drunk..decide HECK lets get married that sounds like something fun to do...Then you can wake up the next morning with a honking hangover. and think OH **** !!.and get an "annullment"...

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Can we agree on this Starfish? It's better for parents to be married than not?

I know you were asking Starfish...But thats kind of a complicated question..Im "saddened" my son didnt get marrried..(he just had a baby)...But at the same time..he doesnt want to. He's immature for one..plus he says he doesnt love the mother "that way"..And I think he is afraid....So I think the child is "better off" at this point if they dont...They live together...And he plays the "mama role" right now by staying at home as the primary caretaker for his son..While she works...

Love

Dallas
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
What I object to is the disbelief that the optimum is possible. I guess you could say, as Dallas said, "dreamy wonderful" parents. They ARE possible. I know many. This doesn't mean economic level, race or even religion. It means a man and a woman who delay sex until after their marriage, commit to stay together at least till death, and are completely faithful. Their children are welcome into their family and are raised in love and security. Their children learn to honor/trust men because they lived with and were loved by a father who taught them what a real man is. They learn to honor/respect womanhood through the example of their mother. They learn, by example, that loving the other gender is challenging, but beautiful at the same time. They learn to respect the other gender by the way their parents treat each other.

At the same time, it's possible for parents to teach honesty, kindness, integrity, honor, responsibility, and forgiveness, through example. It's possible to teach that hate is wrong. To teach that you can disagree with someone without hating them. And sometimes the hard road is the right road.

When it's possible, shouldn't we strive for it? For the sake of children? Don't they deserve the best we can give them? Or do we put our own wants first?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
What I object to is the disbelief that the optimum is possible. I guess you could say, as Dallas said, "dreamy wonderful" parents. They ARE possible. I know many. This doesn't mean economic level, race or even religion. It means a man and a woman who delay sex until after their marriage, commit to stay together at least till death, and are completely faithful. Their children are welcome into their family and are raised in love and security. Their children learn to honor/trust men because they lived with and were loved by a father who taught them what a real man is. They learn to honor/respect womanhood through the example of their mother. They learn, by example, that loving the other gender is challenging, but beautiful at the same time. They learn to respect the other gender by the way their parents treat each other.

At the same time, it's possible for parents to teach honesty, kindness, integrity, honor, responsibility, and forgiveness, through example. It's possible to teach that hate is wrong. To teach that you can disagree with someone without hating them. And sometimes the hard road is the right road.

When it's possible, shouldn't we strive for it? For the sake of children? Don't they deserve the best we can give them? Or do we put our own wants first?

Yes that is possible..And it is fantastic and beautiful. And you go on and do that....But that is NOT the only possiblitly or scenerio of raising well adjusted..happy ..healthy loving children...who go on to live productive and fruitful lives...

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
And also Starfish..I dont understand what you mean by what a "real man" is?..(in the context of this discussion)

Can you define?

Love

Dallas
 
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