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Can anyone give a thorough breakdown and explanation of JOHN 3:16
- Thread starter hebrew
- Start date
OK, think of this parable: a man (a young farmer) goes into a town to look for a loan. He borrows a large amount of money from a man with the promise that he'll pay it back on a certain schedule. He goes to work on the farm, but finds himself easily distracted by the cares of the world; his friends, neighboors and other activities impede his progress. In the back of his mind he is constantly cognizant of the debt he incurred, but he pushes it ever further back in his conscience, thinking the day will never come when he is called upon to make good.
Occasionaly he makes token payments to the debtor, promising that it is all he has and that he will do his best to pay off his debt. The day of the closure of his loan comes and he is nowhere near able to pay it. He begs for mercy, the debtor growls that justice must be done. It seems that they are at an impass, until someone steps forward to offer a way to reconcile mercy and justice. A man offers to pay the man's debt if he will serve him. The debtor must accept; it's the only way to serve justice. And mercy is also appeased.
We are the debtees. The debtor is the law of God and the intercessor is Christ. God loves us so much that He payed the debt that we have incurred through sin. We receive the freedom if we fulfill the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel: Faith, Repentence, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins and the Gift of the holy Ghost. We are then indebted to Christ . His mercy covers us (atonement means to cover tightly or to embrace intimately) from justice without undermining it.
So how does everlasting life fit into this? Well, we as humans are made up of two things, a spirit and a body. Our body is mortal and will die, as did Christ's, but our spirit is immortal. Physical death is an inevitability that even the Son of God had to endure, but He did it to break the chains that bind down the dead. Through His resurrection all may follow. Physical death is thus overcome. Spiritual death is the seperation the our spirits from God. Justice will not allow us be in His presene while we are in sin. Christ took all our sins upon Himself and paid that price so that we might return to live with God. Why did Christ say "eloi, eloi, lamsabacthana"? Which is (incorrectly) translated, "why hast thou forsaken me?" in the Bible? He really is saying He understands that He must be seperated from God for the moment because He was in that moment, quite literally, the single most sinfull being that had ever existed. In taking our sins He ensures our victory over spiritual death. With spiritual and physical death overcome we can return to live with God for the eternities. Thus:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Occasionaly he makes token payments to the debtor, promising that it is all he has and that he will do his best to pay off his debt. The day of the closure of his loan comes and he is nowhere near able to pay it. He begs for mercy, the debtor growls that justice must be done. It seems that they are at an impass, until someone steps forward to offer a way to reconcile mercy and justice. A man offers to pay the man's debt if he will serve him. The debtor must accept; it's the only way to serve justice. And mercy is also appeased.
We are the debtees. The debtor is the law of God and the intercessor is Christ. God loves us so much that He payed the debt that we have incurred through sin. We receive the freedom if we fulfill the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel: Faith, Repentence, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins and the Gift of the holy Ghost. We are then indebted to Christ . His mercy covers us (atonement means to cover tightly or to embrace intimately) from justice without undermining it.
So how does everlasting life fit into this? Well, we as humans are made up of two things, a spirit and a body. Our body is mortal and will die, as did Christ's, but our spirit is immortal. Physical death is an inevitability that even the Son of God had to endure, but He did it to break the chains that bind down the dead. Through His resurrection all may follow. Physical death is thus overcome. Spiritual death is the seperation the our spirits from God. Justice will not allow us be in His presene while we are in sin. Christ took all our sins upon Himself and paid that price so that we might return to live with God. Why did Christ say "eloi, eloi, lamsabacthana"? Which is (incorrectly) translated, "why hast thou forsaken me?" in the Bible? He really is saying He understands that He must be seperated from God for the moment because He was in that moment, quite literally, the single most sinfull being that had ever existed. In taking our sins He ensures our victory over spiritual death. With spiritual and physical death overcome we can return to live with God for the eternities. Thus:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
I take the Bible inwardly, so my take on this is we gain our salvation by finding the Christ (the eternal) within us. In order to find that we have to be willing to give up that which is nearest and dearest to us.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
really good explanation dan and lightkeeper.
dan said:
Don't you find it strange God forgot to tell Jesus(Mt.25:46) and Jesus forgot to tell Paul?(1Cor. 15:51-54)
I suppose God fotgot it too, as He revealed to John the reason for the Lamb of God. (Jn. 1:29)
The Greek concept of immortal soul is the most ungody of the unbiblical doctrines.
The spirit, God gave to all men, goes back to God at death. Ecc.12:7
Immortal Soul/Spirit cannot be found in any good Bible.
John 3:16 is the Way to immortality/everlasting life.
Ronald said:
You sound like a Jehovah's Witness. Neoplatonism and gnosticism have nothing to do with creating the doctrine of the immortal soul. Our souls are energy and can be neither created nor destroyed. As God used matter already in existence to create the earth, He used intelligences that already existed to organize spirits to inhabit bodies.
Mt. 25:46 makes a better case for an independent spirit than against it. If the "soul" ceases to exist after seperation from the body how is it to be punished eternally?
Corinthians refers to the mortal body, not to the spirit. The whole chapter is about the resurrection (the reunion of the spirit with the body).
Ecc. 12:7 is a weak one. We return to the presence of God, but we are not assimilated into Him as we lose our identities, as you infer. Ecc. 9:5 is the one the J.W.s always use. I guess if you were a DUB you'd have known that one. It works a whole lot better (unless of course you understand what the scripture says in its original Hebrew).
I could show you a lot of different scriptures that show the existence of the spirit independent of the body, but I'll just choose one. The parable of the rich man and lazarus. Their spirits rest in two different places after their deaths. One spirit rests with God, the other in Hell. Their spirits have survived their bodies. They are immortal. You may say that's just a parable. Very well, then you'll be calling Christ a liar. He never taught a parable that had false doctrine in it (unless you judge this to be false doctrine and thus judge Jesus the Christ to be a liar). Christ says the spirits outlive the bodies, as do I. They pre-date the bodies, too.
The premortal existence of the spirit was well known to the early church fathers until the Catholic chruch started reconciling church doctrine with the philosophies of men. St. Thomas Aquinas is responsible for having wedded Aristotelian philosophy to the church. Aristotle believed in only one existence (no spirit world) so the ideas about spirits and pre-mortal existence had to go (ironic that they chose human philosophy over true doctrine without exception). You think my idea is Greek and apostate when it's actually yours that is Aristotelian and apostate. Read Jeremiah 1:5. God knew him before his body was formed. How did He know him? He knew his spirit before He put it into his body, of course.
Foreordination is another proof that we existed before we were born. It's sometimes called "predestination" in the New Testament, but that's an error in translation and nothing more.
I would point out all the many deuterocanonical scriptures that support my doctrine, but you'll shriek and howl in objection because the Catholic church has lulled you (unconsciously) into this conviction that what they say is scripture is scripture and everyone else be damned.
Nefelie
Member
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
~ Jn. 3:16 ~
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
~ Jn. 3:16 ~
I often find that the problem with understanding the Gospels, is that we are taking for granted that the Christ is an actual person. He is not. He is not even a “he”. Nor a “she”. “The Christ, the Son of God” is an inner state of mind, heart and soul. If you read the Gospels from that angle, everything makes perfect sense.
~~~
John 3:16; "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."
John 3:16 is a stmblingblock scripture. It may sound ridiculous, but it is. Give me your opinion on what is means.
I believe this verse teaches that God sent his Son as a ransom for our sins. By dying on a torture stake, Jesus gave his perfect human life in sacrifice to God. His sacrifice provided a legal basis for God to forgive sins and grant the gift of everlasting life to those who exercise faith in God and Christ, and who follow Christ as his disciples. Why do you find this verse a stumbling block?
Nefelie
Member
I disagree.
But before debating on that, first I'd like to ask WHY did God waited soooo long to send his Son.
According to the Biblical calculations, Jesus was sent to mankind approx. 6000 years AFTER the creation of Adam (and the original sin, of course).
So, why wait that long?
~~~
1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death. - Gospel of Thomas"
John 3:16 should not be read without referencing Isaiah 52 & 53 and Hoshea 11:1. This gospel is intended to be read by people who are already committed to complete service, to live holy selfless lives and to suffer for the benefit of the world and who are familiar with the Torah and the Law. For that reason its hard to read for those of us who are hoping for an afterlife, for miracles, looking for doctrinal proof of monotheism, want to make clever arguments about Jesus etc. It is "Somebody else's mail," so that is why it appears to be a stumbling block. The son is Israel in Hoshea (which is much older than John), however Christians are considered by John to be converts (or virtual immigrants) to Israel by means of an extended understanding of what the son of God is. These are the suffering servant mentioned in Isaiah 50,51,52,53 who are sprinkled in the world, and the Logos dwells in them. John correlates the Son with Logos, and the son dwells among people according to John. John is dealing with some major questions about justice and right & wrong, discipleship, fate, etc. He is actually extracting lessons out of the Prophets and the Law.
John 3:16 is a stmblingblock scripture. It may sound ridiculous, but it is. Give me your opinion on what is means.
John 3:16 is a stmblingblock scripture. It may sound ridiculous, but it is. Give me your opinion on what is means.
John 3:16-21:
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
17 “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.”(NRSV)
What is hard to understand?
Perhaps it is the word "believe"? What does "believe in him" really mean?
James 2:19:
"You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder."
I think its safe to say it's not that kind of 'belief' that John 3:16 is talking about.
"Believing" in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ means much more than just believing that Jesus existed or that he was put to death as an innocent man. This is the kind of belief that causes a person to sacrifice something of value for others as Christ did. Those who love the light have nothing to hide...those who love the dark are trying to conceal something. It is stupid to assume that an all-knowing Creator can't see what they are doing, or even thinking. According to John 3:16, God loved the world (kosmos) of mankind so much that he sacrificed the life of his son to pay a debt so large that we could never repay it on our own. Adam's children suffered from his selfish actions. Jesus willingly came to undo that damage.
Believing in, or appreciating that sacrifice for what it was...the greatest act of love that was ever demonstrated....will mean everlasting life for those whose love for God and his Christ are shown by the way they live and how they treat others. But those who treat that sacrifice with contempt or who fail to appreciate the magnitude of its purpose, will forever perish, never to enjoy the life that God holds out to faithful ones.
Of course those who accept Christian theology will disagree, but there is a non-Christian interpretation of that verse which can go approximately like this. God in the Beyond Beyond in the instant of creation gave rise God in the Beyond, the "Father", and the universal Avatar, the eternal Christ, who holds open the door to the Father. Those who believe, who love, the Avatar, the Christ, are on a royal road to the Father helped and guided by the "son" who holds the gate wide open to those who are ready and willing to cross into the Father's realm.
In this frame-of-reference there is only one Christ who has taken birth repeatedly to call people home. There is a famous story of Sri Ramakrishna that bears on this http://www.spiritualbee.com/posts/sri-ramakrishna-vision-of-jesus/
In this frame-of-reference there is only one Christ who has taken birth repeatedly to call people home. There is a famous story of Sri Ramakrishna that bears on this http://www.spiritualbee.com/posts/sri-ramakrishna-vision-of-jesus/
Very observant; it is a stumbling block, as it's made up.
Tho should give a break down, as you asked why:
- Firstly in an overall context of John, it is accusing God of first degree murder, it is saying God knowingly sent jesus to die...This is Balaam teachings, which is explained here.
- Next it says you get eternal life because jesus was murdered, which is utter rubbish; because as Yeshua explained in the parable of the wicked husbandmen, those thinking they get inheritance from his death shall be condemned by God.
- He isn't the only begotten son of God, as God does not beget; everything is God's, so God can not beget something....Plus as Yeshua said anyone doing the work of the father, are his brothers and sisters.
- God doesn't love the world by sending his son to die; that isn't love, that is the actions of a psychopath.
- Believing in jesus won't save someone; following Yeshua's teachings, and having faith in God will.
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The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I always thought John 3:16 was the result of John Cena and Stone Cold performing the Fusion technique...
firedragon
Veteran Member
John 3:16 is a stmblingblock scripture. It may sound ridiculous, but it is. Give me your opinion on what is means.
From the context of the bible and its language.
John 3:16
1. Eternal life is cited all over the bible. "The soul that sinneth shall die" says the OT. Death and life in this scripture does not mean a physical death. If a person sins he will die and if he repents he can get back to life (Ezekiel). Once you die physically you cannot get back. Thus this is a spiritual death and if you believe in the Christ you will not die but surely live which means your salvation is secure.
2. Houion ton Monogini, Son the only begotten/generated(generation). Son is a phrase found all over the bible. Israelites are called only begotten in the OT. Ephraim is called Prototokos, the eldest son. Prototokos for those people is an eldest son, the son who will take the legacy of the father. One who will carry the burden of the family. The heir. Thats in Koine Greek. The OT has the phrases 'Ben Elohim' many times referring to many people. Son of God.
3. For God so loved the world that he gave his one/only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. You believe in Jesus your salvation is secure God sent Jesus because he loves the world.
But that is only one verse. That doesnt mean that by simply believing in Jesus you will surely be saved. Believing in is trusting his word. He tells you to follow the law of the scribes and the pharisees. He tells you that 'on that day if you come and tell me that you prophesised, cast out devils and performed miracles under my name I will tell you to go away from here, i dont know you'.
John explains that people who sin will not believe in Jesus because they want to stay away. They are in darkness and the doors to light is closed. Believe in Jesus and you will surely not perish but have eternal life.
Thats what this verse means.