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Can anyone tell me who Jesus really was?

blackout

Violet.
You obviously don't know your ancient history. For there is far more historical evidence that Jesus of Nazareth walked the dusty streets of Galilee and Israel than there is of Julias Caesar.

I am not an historian, no,
but if it makes you feel any better
I take a neutrally 'skeptical' view
on most things.
Not just 'Jesus' things.

ie, I really don't tend to "Believe" much of anything
that I cannot mySelf tangably experience--
or, evidence for mySelf. (ie, know, for mySelf)
This doesn't mean I necessarily disbelieve,
but neither do I believe.

I rather suspect that mankind at large,
knows far less than it believes it does.
EDIT: And certainly I do not know, what I do not know.
(regardless of what other people do, or don't, actually know themSelves.)
 
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Sententia

Well-Known Member
If you want the truth about who Jesus really is, go to the Bible and not the opinions of fallible men and women.

If you want the truth about who Jesus really is, go to the Bible and not the opinions of fallible men who wrote the bible.
 

Jethro

Member
I am not an historian, no,
but if it makes you feel any better
I take a neutrally 'skeptical' view
on most things.
Not just 'Jesus' things.

ie, I really don't tend to "Believe" much of anything
that I cannot mySelf tangably experience--
or, evidence for mySelf.
This doesn't mean I disbelieve,
but neither do I believe.

I rather suspect that mankind at large,
knows far less than it believes it does.

Has anyone ever seen evolution take place? No, but evolutionists claim that they have the proof. Clearly there is none. Have you ever seen wind? No, but you have seen its effects. Have I ever seen God or Jesus? Not with my physical eyes, but with the eyes of faith. Also, I and millions of others have seen their effects on my life; being miraculously changed from a drug addict, an alcoholic, a lover of money to being a pastor who now preaches the good news of Jesus and the love of God, and all without counselling or medication. That's tangable enough for me.
 

blackout

Violet.
Has anyone ever seen evolution take place? No, but evolutionists claim that they have the proof. Clearly there is none. Have you ever seen wind? No, but you have seen its effects. Have I ever seen God or Jesus? Not with my physical eyes, but with the eyes of faith. Also, I and millions of others have seen their effects on my life; being miraculously changed from a drug addict, an alcoholic, a lover of money to being a pastor who now preaches the good news of Jesus and the love of God, and all without counselling or medication. That's tangable enough for me.

You are of course free to believe/see/understand/explain as you are inclined. ;)

I have told my story enough times on RF
that all I can think to say right now in short version is
"been there, done that".

And now I've done even more.

My open ended world view, obviously, is not for everyone.
Actually, it's hardly for anyone.
:p

For me though, let's just say my neutral perspective
keeps me free and light.
It makes me a happier person, more alive in the now moment,
and more creatively in'spired.

In my experience, ideas and possibilities
weigh far less than Beliefs.
They don't even require a 'bag'.
Really you can't ever put down your Beliefs.
Who would you be without them?
 
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Shermana

Heretic
Yea, those dirty Catholics !!!

Catholics didn't write the Bible, at best the Greek Orthodox selected what books to become the standardized Canon of what was being circulated, many of those works which were abandoned just happen to be considered "Inspired" by Catholic "Fathers" like Iraneus such as the Shepherd of Hermas. The Muratorian fragment included Peter's Apocalypse as well.

Matthew was written by a very Torah obedient Messianic Jew, Paul wrote his Epistles (Except for Ephesians and the Pastorals which are clearly Pseudipigraphic). The initial version of Matthew was called "Gospel to the Hebrews". Mark was written by Peter (or at least, the early writings attest to Mark being Peter's scribe), who was very Jewish. Paul was not Catholic. John was definitely not Catholic, and very Jewish, at least the John of the Epistles.
 
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javajo

Well-Known Member
Jethro,

Very splendid and good posts! Most excellent and true! Well done brother! And a big AMEN! I pray for you and your congregation, God bless you! The Grace and Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Jesus was a catcher in Venezuela, and may be again for the New York Yankees, but for now he is a DH until he can improve his defensive skills.

Fun fact: when I type Jesus into google, google's first guess at predicting what I'm looking for is Jesus Montero.
 

Villager

Active Member
Jesus was Immanuel, God with us.

'The Logos became flesh and made his dwelling among us... full of grace and truth.' Jn 1:14
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Colossians 1:15-20 (NLT)

15Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,[a]
16 for through him God created everything
in the heavenly realms and on earth.
He made the things we can see
and the things we can’t see—
such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world.
Everything was created through him and for him.
17 He existed before anything else,
and he holds all creation together.
18 Christ is also the head of the church,
which is his body.
He is the beginning,
supreme over all who rise from the dead.
So he is first in everything.
19 For God in all his fullness
was pleased to live in Christ,
20 and through him God reconciled
everything to himself.
He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth
by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.


he is the same person as is mentioned in Proverbs 8

Vs22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. 32 “And now, O sons, listen to me; yes, happy are the ones that keep my very ways. 33 Listen to discipline and become wise, and do not show any neglect. 34 Happy is the man that is listening to me by keeping awake at my doors day by day, by watching at the posts of my entrances. 35 For the one finding me will certainly find life, and gets goodwill from Jehovah.


Jesus is this same one.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth

He is a heavenly being, an angel of God, the very first created angel.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
I can't even tell you who my best friend really is, let alone a guy who lived thousands of years ago who I never met.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
That refers to Wisdom.


yes i know some people believe that

But its not likely that God needed to create wisdom because wisdom is an intrinsic quality of God.... if he needed to create it, then it isnt intrinsic to him.
 

Villager

Active Member
yes i know some people believe that
Unsurprisingly. It's what the writer wrote, repeatedly. Anything else is eisegesis.

But its not likely that God needed to create wisdom because wisdom is an intrinsic quality of God.... if he needed to create it, then it isnt intrinsic to him.
But the creator can create wisdom for humanity, which of course must have existed before the creation itself.
 
I believe in the historical Jesus...

I'm just not exactly sure if the so-called 'Messianic prophecies' in the Tanakh (Hebrew Scriptures) actually refer to him...
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
he is the same person as is mentioned in Proverbs 8

Vs22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. 32 “And now, O sons, listen to me; yes, happy are the ones that keep my very ways. 33 Listen to discipline and become wise, and do not show any neglect. 34 Happy is the man that is listening to me by keeping awake at my doors day by day, by watching at the posts of my entrances. 35 For the one finding me will certainly find life, and gets goodwill from Jehovah.

I am wisdom (AKA The Torah); I dwell in cleverness; I provide knowledge of designs. Fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. I hate pride and haughtiness, the way of evil, and a duplicitous mouth. With me there is counsel and wisdom; I am understanding; with me is might. Through me, kings will reign, and nobles will decree righteousness; through me officials will rule, and nobles, all who judge righteously. I love those who love me, and those who search for me shall find me. Wealth and honor are with me, great fortune and righteousness. My fruits are better than fine gold, even choice gold, and my produce is choicer than silver. I lead in the path of righteousness, amid the pathways of justice. I have what to bequeath to those who love me, and I shall fill their storehouses.
The Lord made me as the beginning of His way...

Proverbs 8:12-22

A little bit of context goes a long way.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I am wisdom (AKA The Torah); I dwell in cleverness; I provide knowledge of designs. Fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. I hate pride and haughtiness, the way of evil, and a duplicitous mouth. With me there is counsel and wisdom; I am understanding; with me is might. Through me, kings will reign, and nobles will decree righteousness; through me officials will rule, and nobles, all who judge righteously. I love those who love me, and those who search for me shall find me. Wealth and honor are with me, great fortune and righteousness. My fruits are better than fine gold, even choice gold, and my produce is choicer than silver. I lead in the path of righteousness, amid the pathways of justice. I have what to bequeath to those who love me, and I shall fill their storehouses.
The Lord made me as the beginning of His way...

Proverbs 8:12-22

A little bit of context goes a long way.


down in verse 31 it says "and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men"
If this is really only personified wisdom speaking, how is it that it says it is fond of the sons of men? What do you think this means?
 
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