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can christians support a homosexual inclination?
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
Apparently, homosexuality is not caused by genetic propensities. It is a product of psychological inclination. Such inclinations usually arise from prolong exposure and repeated conditioning to circumstances with homosexual propensities. Many factors are involved in the development of this inclination - social, family, tradition, environment, etc.
Because it is not genetic, it can be reconditioned.
From this, it can be said that God abhors gay and homosexuality. In fact, it is for this very reason that He destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha.
When it is in our capacity to change that which God abhors, how can we expect God to understand our lack of enthusiasm to do so?
Road Warrior
Seeking the middle path..
Documentation of this theory? Something like this?: The Science of Homosexuality | Serendip's Exchange
Shermana
Heretic
Why not call rape "natural" while you're at it? Was probably responsible for a great deal of people's lineages. There's lots of things you can call "natural".
As for a person condoning this mentality, it is impossible under scriptural conditions, even lusting after a woman is forbidden by Jesus, and by NT standards, even Paul in Romans 1:26 condemns a particular act of intercourse that is not "natural" (against nature in fact) and says specifically that the "men burned in lust for each other", though the verse is not likely condemning lesbianism but certain non-reproductive acts men and women do that ahem....you can get the idea. Let's just say "Natural" probably means the act which leads to babies and in ancient Israelite society, it was probably more repugnant than it seemed in the 50's.
So the answer is, "Christians" must in fact, indeed in fact, sell out and compromise the scripture, to condone an inclination of lust in such a way. What is an "inclination" any way? Is it anything other than lust?
There is no question that Lev 18 says "lies with a man as with a woman" as for the death penalty being applied, that's only for ancient Israelite society under a politically autonomous Sanhedrin of appointed Judges, but the idea remains that one will endure a providential fate instead. Some Rabbis have said it's about a "particular act" as well, but it can mean anything that a man does with a woman.
Yashua says its better to castrate oneself than to cause his wife to commit adultery (by remarrying). By this idea, one would imagine that Yashua wouldn't want one causing another to sin of equal forbiddence.
Thus, any "Christian" that anything more than "Tolerates" male behavior in such a way or even the particular inclination and regards it as acceptable, is against the "Spirit" of the scripture which flat out condemns male-male behavior in the harshest of terms.
Female-female behavior however, now that's another story. I'm all for it. If women would stick to each other instead of men, there''d be practically no STD's and unwanted pregnancies, and lots more virgins to court.
As for a person condoning this mentality, it is impossible under scriptural conditions, even lusting after a woman is forbidden by Jesus, and by NT standards, even Paul in Romans 1:26 condemns a particular act of intercourse that is not "natural" (against nature in fact) and says specifically that the "men burned in lust for each other", though the verse is not likely condemning lesbianism but certain non-reproductive acts men and women do that ahem....you can get the idea. Let's just say "Natural" probably means the act which leads to babies and in ancient Israelite society, it was probably more repugnant than it seemed in the 50's.
So the answer is, "Christians" must in fact, indeed in fact, sell out and compromise the scripture, to condone an inclination of lust in such a way. What is an "inclination" any way? Is it anything other than lust?
There is no question that Lev 18 says "lies with a man as with a woman" as for the death penalty being applied, that's only for ancient Israelite society under a politically autonomous Sanhedrin of appointed Judges, but the idea remains that one will endure a providential fate instead. Some Rabbis have said it's about a "particular act" as well, but it can mean anything that a man does with a woman.
Yashua says its better to castrate oneself than to cause his wife to commit adultery (by remarrying). By this idea, one would imagine that Yashua wouldn't want one causing another to sin of equal forbiddence.
Thus, any "Christian" that anything more than "Tolerates" male behavior in such a way or even the particular inclination and regards it as acceptable, is against the "Spirit" of the scripture which flat out condemns male-male behavior in the harshest of terms.
Female-female behavior however, now that's another story. I'm all for it. If women would stick to each other instead of men, there''d be practically no STD's and unwanted pregnancies, and lots more virgins to court.
Road Warrior
Seeking the middle path..
Yes.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." Mark 12:30-31
Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12
Road Warrior
Seeking the middle path..
Can you not see the difference between rape and a consensual act between two adults?
Shermana
Heretic
The word is "natural". What does "natural" mean?
If by "natural" you mean a "desire to seek out lustful relations", well everyone does that. As for WHO, you'll have to explain why it's "Natural" to not seek your genetic fit for reproduction.
Do you think it's "natural" to go to a Mexican donkey show? Somehow I would think the donkey consents. Why is it only natural if humans are involved?
Road Warrior
Seeking the middle path..
I disagree that animals can consent, but thanks for your opinion.
Shermana
Heretic
If you knew something truly "offended" (i.e. makes really angry, disgusts, horrifies, etc.) G-d and He didn't ever just change his mind all of the sudden about it, and it would cause a person to go to hell, how can you possibly believe that it's Loving to condone the act and the desire? You'd have to really hate or not care about the person whatsoever if you would think it means to accept it.
Therefore, your Theology must believe that you can have a gay old time in San Francisco and Jesus forgives you it's all good in the neighborhood. Otherwise, you're definitely not being "loving" by tolerating what causes people to offend G-d. Unless of course you don't love G-d enough to not condone and accept what He truly abhors.
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Shermana
Heretic
Why not? What is "consent"? Is it a human only concept? Have you ever seen animals in heat? Often, the female will not consent to a male's advances even when in heat, because they don't like the Quality of the male. The male is always happy to oblige however. Some male animals have been known to chase after female humans.
Dolphins for example, are always happy to have a shag with anyone.
In fact, Dolphins can be criminally rapacious. Is that not "natural"?
Dolphins Rape People | Aardvark NYC
Vultar
Active Member
Where does it say that being gay offends god? Even in the story of Sodem and Gamorah the wicked men wanted to "know" the angels not other human men. Otherwise if they wanted sex with any men new to town then they would have had sex with Lot when he first came to town. If the men of Sodem were gay, then Lot would not have offered up his daughters to the men.
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Exactly, these areas of the brain are distributed in a wider area called the Limbic System. It so happens that the limbic system is phylogenetically an old area of the brain responsible for responding to more crude and primitive stimuli eg. sex, hunger, emotions, etc
This implies that the reconditioning of a homosexual in adulthood is more difficult because of the many layers of the myriads of associations this part already establishes with other parts of the brain. Its association is more emotive.
In a way, the prevalence of homosexuals reflects the society's inability to raise children in the way God had intended resulting in thwarted and twisted concepts of sex and sexuality. Parents have only themselves to blame when they see their children developing homosexual.
Gay is a different issue. In most cases, a gay has some physiological abnormalities that can directly or indirectly be linked to the sex hormones or systems relating to the sex hormones. In this instance, we approach an area where we see the effects of sin on human nature. Only God will judge. But many of the genetic and hormonal illnesses that that we know of result from consanguity. The question is this: Is consanguity a good practise? And to what extent should marriage among relatives be allowed?
Road Warrior
Seeking the middle path..
The fact you do not know the difference between consent and an animal in heat tells me any further conversation is with you on the matter will be fruitless. Have a nice day.
Animals also operate on something else also - pherhormones. This phenomenon is less well understood in humans. Is that consensus?
Shermana
Heretic
So I take it then that you think Dolphin rape is "natural", ok good, we're on the same page then. Now perhaps you'd like to explain why exactly "natural" and "Consent" are so correlated?
Where does it say that it doesn't - being a homosexual?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It can be said that god abhors pepperoni pizza and barn owls.
Shermana
Heretic
The angels looked like men. Thus, if the men of Sodom were pounding at the door to molest beings that looked like men, that would be the same thing as them wanting men. According to some traditions, Angels, who are the beings that men are created in the "image" of, are handsome creatures, more on the "ideal" side of what "men" should look like. Now where did you learn that just because people are interested in men that they'd turn down women? There's probably far, far more bis and "Curious" than full fledged "gays".
Road Warrior
Seeking the middle path..
LOL.
If God is all-merciful and all-loving why would God abhor anything?
If a homosexual believes in God and Jesus, then God cannot abhor them and, at the same time, this paragraph be true: