Can God Be Evident?

[Yerda]

Many of the athiests (Mr. Spinkles and Ceridwen at least!) on this forum have often used evidence as a defining argument in their opposition to theism and to great effect I would say. Evidence of our existance is readily identifiable, as is evidence of evolution (I am NOT claiming evolution is fact), and evidence of our surrounding universe forms the basis of their judgments.

Evidence of God is much more difficult to come by. I believe I have saw none but many would claim everything is more or less evidence of God's existance, like rain, and seasons, and life of course. Most people disregard this as it points to no such thing as a deity. And in this lies my question; is it even possible for God to be evident? Given the wild and fantastic nature of such claims can something mundane as evidence ever arise?

Would could possibly constitute an indication that a ruling entity controls our universe? Resurection doesn't even do it for me as someone suggested elsewhere, it would imply nothing other than I had died and was dead no longer.

Any thoughts? Or answers?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Certainly, if the God of Christianity (omnipotent, omniscient, etc.) wanted to provide evidence, he could do so. All he would have to do is appear before us and do something to demonstrate his powers. At that point, I am fairly sure that most of the Atheists, and all of the Agnostics would become immediate believers in God. That is not to say that all would worship Him - many would probably be contemptous of His misuse of His powers - but the vast majority would certainly then believe in His existence.

TVOR

 

[Mr Spinkles]

truthseekingsoul--

Whether or not there should be evidence of God's existence depends upon the definition and nature of "God" with which we're dealing. For one possible (and persuasive) indicator of God's existence, see my avatar.

Still, even if a given definition of God predicts no observable evidence of his/her/its existence, I would argue that only things with evidence to support them warrant belief--the rest is pure speculation. (e.g. To say that an invisible, weightless, and otherwise undetectable gnome lives in my right ear is to assert something entirely unknowable.)

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'd like to add that it can be evident that certain definitions of God are unreasonable. For example, the existence of suffering in our world is evidence against the existence of an omnibenevolent and omniscient God.

 

[Ceridwen018]

What he said. ^

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Thanks for backing me up there, tweedledum.

 

[kreeden]

You should have that ear looked at . They may be able to remove the gnome .

Seriously , what type of evident are you looking for Mr. Sprinkles ?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Perhaps something both probative and verifiable?

 

[jewscout]

I believe that G-d does make himself evident to those who look. But i think western society has engraned the B-movie types of acts as the only evidence we can accept.

 

[Master Vigil]

I think god is like a good martial arts instructor. (Whether this is good or bad, I don't know. It is only my observation.) A good instructor is a good business man. When you go into a martial arts school, the instructor does not abruptly show you that he has the ability to incapacitate 7 attackers bare handed for you to believe that he can teach you martial arts. You start off slow, learning basics, not knowing if what you are learning is even effective or not. But after many years of training, respect, and loyalty to your instructor, you end up seeing what a marvelous instructor he is. And what a marvelous martial art you are practicing. It is not, nor can it be, a quick thing. Try to find a good martial artist who got their masters in 5 years. You won't, those things don't come quick. And I think it is the same for religion. An abrupt show of power is not necessary, for then people would see it, be extremely faithful for a couple years, and then get bored, and give up. Things must be gradual. But as with religion and martial arts, if you don't go to the martial arts school, you won't begin. And if you don't begin, you'll never learn. And if you do begin, and expect too much at first, you will grow bored, impatient, and quit. This is my observation.

 

[cardero]

Truthseekingsoul writes: Would could possibly constitute an indication that a ruling entity controls our universe?

I think if we were to identify GOD with terms and descriptions as “ruling” or “controlling” than we may not want to find evidence of a BEing like this in our existence. GOD may as well stay alone, lost and unidentified. Through my REALationship with GOD there is one word that is quite apparent to GOD’s persona and that is responsibility. GOD has a lot of responsibility. I would not want to have or encourage a connection with a God who was controlling or ruling.

There is an example that I REMEMBER from my religious days in which there was a way that we could quickly identify evidence of a LOVing creator. The many ways that we can taste, some would say that GOD could very well have created us so that everything tasted the same but there are many different ways to enjoy a variety of tastes. This example could very well apply to all our senses. Can you imagine if we could only see in black and white instead of enjoying the many colors this world has to offer? Hearing also, GOD could have created us with an annoying constant drone in our ears. Or we could all be deaf with everyone having to learn sign language and not BEing able to enjoy the vibraphone stylings of Cal Tjader. Some people may take these things for granted but I believe that they are evidence not only of GOD but of a LOVing GOD.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Seriously , what type of evident are you looking for Mr. Sprinkles ?

Whattya got?

I believe that G-d does make himself evident to those who look.

In other words, if a person wants to find evidence for something badly enough, he/she will.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Seriously , what type of evident are you looking for Mr. Sprinkles ?

Or perhaps a better response would have been: the same type of evidence that would convince you of Thor's existence.

 

[jewscout]

In other words, if a person wants to find evidence for something badly enough, he/she will.

I'm not sure if i'd put it that way, but people have different perspectives on the world and one of those is that we can find the Divine in our everyday lives.

 

[Ronald]

Folks, when you know who you are, where you are going and have confidence in your ability to get there.
God is not going to rattle your cage.
It is when you become lost and know you are lost, will he come and show you the Way.
Whether you recognize his efforts on your behalf is as Spinkles states, there is so little evidence that God created anything.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In other words, if a person wants to find evidence for something badly enough, he/she will.

<rousing applause>Bingo!</rousing applause>

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... we can find the Divine in our everyday lives.

Why not look for the sacred and dispense with the Divine?

 

[Ronald]

When I told this story to my 9yo grandson he said "thats impossible!" (Israels 6 day War.)
Even a nine year old recognizes that fledgling country could not defeat so great a foe.
However flimsey, I submit this evidence of a God!
De.28:7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

 

[cardero]

Duet 32.8 writes: Why not look for the sacred and dispense with the Divine?

I say we dispense of the sacred, The Divine, the controlling, the ruling, the fear, the judgment, the elusiveness, the obediency,the prophecy, the faith or any other unreasonable qualities of GOD. For many people looking for evidence to identify GOD is like investigating a murderer who has never killed.

 

[Dadball]

We can find the Divine in our everyday lives.

God was working in my life before I believed he existed. I just did recognize it until I knew what to look for.