Can God be "morally wrong"?

[jtartar]

If God do exist, and he gave you an order that you think was morally wrong, would you still carry out this order? Could you still worship him?

Let’s just say hypothetically, you were in the same position as King Saul in 1 Samuel 15 (the Amalekite incidence). Like Saul, you’re a king (or queen), God gave you either a direct order or an order through one of his prophets, which is, to kill every man, woman and child, and even infant should not be spared.

To not carry out God’s order, you would lose God’s favour as Saul did.

In the story of Saul and David, the price of losing God’s favour was that God will choose another favourite, and you will be inflicted with paranoia and extreme jealousy, where eventually Saul lost his life in the end.


Could you carry out such order?
Was not God wrong in giving such order?

Is God’s favour worth, having even women and children massacred?

Could you still worship him if what you thought was morally wrong?


In Genesis, God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac, but it was a test, and Isaac was spared. Even though it was not carry through to it ultimate end, isn't such a test, morally wrong?

gnostic,
It is not possible for God to be morally wrong!!!
God, whose Proper name is Jehovah, created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, Acts 4:24. God is the SOURCE of all life, Ps 36:9.
Because He is the giver of life to every living thing He has the right to decide what is moral and what is not.
It is true that it was a very hard thing for Abraham to attempt to sacrifice Isaac.
Something that you might not have thought about is: God never was going to allow Abraham to carry this out. God was going to use Abraham to bless all the nations of the earth, so He used a very hard test, Gen 22:16-18.
Please think about this: God did this to show just how hard it was for HIM to allow His own son to come to earth and give his life as a Corresponding Ransom for mankind, 1Tim 2:4-6, Matt 20:28, Rom 5:6-10. In theology this is called Patripassionism, God felt suffering and pain just as His son did. I don't think Abraham would have believed this was an unjust test for continuing as God's person al Friend, James 2:23, Isa 41:8. This is especially true when Abraham knew that God would bring Isaac back to life, because God had promised Abraham that his SEED would come through Isaac, Rom 4:16-20, Heb 11:17-19.
As for the killing of man, woman and child in the cities that were condemned, the people were so wicked that God decided they were to wicked to live. If all the parents were killed who would care for the children?? The wickedness of the cities is one of the most important reasons for God sending the Israelites to destroy them and their cities, Gen 15:12-21, Deut 9:3-9, 12:29-32.
As for Saul, when he decided to disobey God, He removed his spirit from Saul. That is the reason for him having so much trouble.
The Bible tells us that everything God does is Just, Deut 32:4, that He neveracts wickedly, Job 34:10,12. We do not know all that took place, so these things are a kind of a test for us. Will we have faith in our God??? Or will we attribute wrong to out merciful God??? Ps 86:15, Job 40:2, Rom 9:20,21.

 

[Falvlun]

gnostic,
It is not possible for God to be morally wrong!!!
God, whose Proper name is Jehovah, created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, Acts 4:24. God is the SOURCE of all life, Ps 36:9.
Because He is the giver of life to every living thing He has the right to decide what is moral and what is not.

He certainly has the power to determine what is right and wrong. But once he does so-- once he says "killing children is wrong-- then he would have to follow that rule himself if he would like his actions to be considered morally right.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

gnostic,
It is not possible for God to be morally wrong!!!
God, whose Proper name is Jehovah, created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, Acts 4:24. God is the SOURCE of all life, Ps 36:9.
Because He is the giver of life to every living thing He has the right to decide what is moral and what is not.

if that's the case then why do certain things "feel" immoral or moral without being handed down directly from a god. if god decides what's right and wrong morally, then why doesn't it feel that way, since emotions are one of the main indicators of moral conscience.

It is true that it was a very hard thing for Abraham to attempt to sacrifice Isaac.
Something that you might not have thought about is: God never was going to allow Abraham to carry this out. God was going to use Abraham to bless all the nations of the earth, so He used a very hard test, Gen 22:16-18.
Please think about this: God did this to show just how hard it was for HIM to allow His own son to come to earth and give his life as a Corresponding Ransom for mankind, 1Tim 2:4-6, Matt 20:28, Rom 5:6-10.

this sounds like biblical double-speak to me. i've heard it said that god gave up his sons life because a blood sacrifice was necessary, and i've heard that blood sacrifice was necessary because god was willing to give up his son. which is it? is god copying our worship or are we copying his?

As for the killing of man, woman and child in the cities that were condemned, the people were so wicked that God decided they were to wicked to live. If all the parents were killed who would care for the children?? The wickedness of the cities is one of the most important reasons for God sending the Israelites to destroy them and their cities, Gen 15:12-21, Deut 9:3-9, 12:29-32.

what was the point of god killing so much livestock in the past? was her nervous about cows and goats banding together and taking revenge upon the israelites?

 

[gnostic]

It is not possible for God to be morally wrong!!!
God, whose Proper name is Jehovah, created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, Acts 4:24. God is the SOURCE of all life, Ps 36:9.
Because He is the giver of life to every living thing He has the right to decide what is moral and what is not.

Whether he created life or not (it up for debate, but personally I see no evidences that such a creator exist, is really beside the point), but whether he was the ultimate author of morals, doesn't change the fact that in the bible he did order Saul to slaughter children, make me question whether God is the right person to dictate what is morally right or wrong.

In Book of Job, he allowed his servant Satan to kill Job's (adult) children, because of something as petty as a wager, and because he wanted prove himself right. Instead of answering Job's questions, he bragged that he can do anything and everything he like. That to me, sounds like a petty and immoral tyrant, certainly not a superior and wise being. If anything, God sounds more like the Devil in the gospels (referring to God's attitude).

 

[NeverGotBetter]

gnostic,
It is not possible for God to be morally wrong!!!

After reading through your post you never explain the reasoning for this. So, can you explain the reasoning for this? In turn, I'll explain why your post did not address it.

God, whose Proper name is Jehovah, created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, Acts 4:24. God is the SOURCE of all life, Ps 36:9.
Because He is the giver of life to every living thing He has the right to decide what is moral and what is not.

What gives him this right and how do we know he is moral in the first place? How do we know he's not an immoral god who is incredibly powerful?

It is true that it was a very hard thing for Abraham to attempt to sacrifice Isaac.
Something that you might not have thought about is: God never was going to allow Abraham to carry this out. God was going to use Abraham to bless all the nations of the earth, so He used a very hard test, Gen 22:16-18.
Please think about this: God did this to show just how hard it was for HIM to allow His own son to come to earth and give his life as a Corresponding Ransom for mankind, 1Tim 2:4-6, Matt 20:28, Rom 5:6-10. In theology this is called Patripassionism, God felt suffering and pain just as His son did. I don't think Abraham would have believed this was an unjust test for continuing as God's person al Friend, James 2:23, Isa 41:8. This is especially true when Abraham knew that God would bring Isaac back to life, because God had promised Abraham that his SEED would come through Isaac, Rom 4:16-20, Heb 11:17-19.

This manages to not even come near to addressing why god can or cannot be morally wrong. If he knows everything, testing someone is a waste because the outcome is known, he made the outcome as you said above. So what is he testing? His ability to know everything? His ability to make Abraham do what he wants?

As for the killing of man, woman and child in the cities that were condemned, the people were so wicked that God decided they were to wicked to live.

I suppose they also possessed the cattle, which is why the cattle had to be killed too, right?

If all the parents were killed who would care for the children??

Great reasoning there. Once all the parents are dead, the children cant be cared for, so let's kill them now. Since cattle couldn't be fed, let's kill them too. I guess the buildings cant clean themselves, so burn them. Hell, why not kill off the trees since they inhaled smoke from burning buildings and will die anyways.

It sounds just like an excuse to kill and kill some more.

The Bible tells us that everything God does is Just

So killing the cattle was just? Killing the children, even the newborns instead of taking at least a few was just? A newborn cant believe in a religion, it doesn't have the capacity to.

Will we have faith in our God??? Or will we attribute wrong to out merciful God??? Ps 86:15, Job 40:2, Rom 9:20,21.

I can see how he's merciful because he made us. Then he also sends people to kill children and infants which seems like the farthest thing from merciful to me.

So after reading this, god is apparently merciful but loves to have people including defenseless, harmless, innocent newborns killed, gets cattle killed for unknown reasons, and he's a powerful god. Nowhere in there did it explain why he is or isn't moral.

 

[gnostic]

In 2 Samuel, with regarding to David and Bathsheba episode, it is true that David was at fault with both committing adultery (which I think was morally wrong) and causing the death of Bathsheba's husband (criminally wrong), and I would agree that David should have and have been punishment.

What I disagree with, was how God punished David. Yes, it was worse form of punishment that could have be devise by god, having David to witness his son's death, however, David's son was an innocent, and shouldn't have been used to punish for the father's crime or sin. To me, killing David's son was morally wrong action by God.