Can God change His mind?

[Zardoz]

It is you who is tarring me as anti-Muslim. I am not anti-Muslim. I am not Islamophobic. You are libelling.

First of all, to everyone, this is a DIR forum. Please do not debate, here.

Secondly, @ AbdulMuhd, as you can see most members here have some religion declared in our profile that is displayed when we post. You should seriously consider completing your profile as well. We use these labels to determine if a member is posting in an appropriate DIR that represents their religious practice. You are question mark.

 

[AbdulMuhd]

All I'm saying is that if your god is omniscient he cannot also change his mind about anything ever.
Personally, I have no horse in that race.
I'm an atheist so I don't believe in any of that stuff anyway.

It has taken until the 20th century, more than 3200 years to provide sufficient evidence to turn parables into myths.

 

[jarofthoughts]

It has taken until the 20th century, more than 3200 years to provide sufficient evidence to turn parables into myths.

It would seem that one man's religion is another man's myths, and, according to me at least, science is the only thing that has any merit in all of this.
And while that would be an interesting discussion, I think perhaps we should move it some place else if you wish to continue.

 

[Starsoul]

God does not change for He is God.. but I do think he has the ability to change His mind on certain things, although perhaps not in the manner you are questioning.

For example, take the story of Jonah for example. God says He is going to destroy a wicked gentile nation due to their evilness. However, since man is given free will, the nation had the ability to repent and turn back from their evil ways.. which they did. And after they repented, God changed His mind and did not destroy them.

But also keep in mind that God is not human, and He doesn't think like humans. I don't believe God literally "changes His mind" like a human being would. Rather His truth is eternal and infinite. If there appears to be contradictions, it is merely because man's search for God is imperfect.

Thats a good answer. Would just add that in the story that you mentioned about Jonah ( Yunus A.S as in Islam) Since we believe that God knows everything, even before it happens, it could be that God already knew that the people of that place will repent, and he had to show to the people, the reward for repenting, i.e by forgiving them immediately as they sought forgiveness, and by showing the prophet that God's mercy far extends his anger.

However it is also said that prayers can change your luck( as we believe) so pray to God all you can and He might just give it to you ( if there is good in it it for you)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

God does not change for He is God ...

Thats a good answer.

 

[jarofthoughts]

God does not change for He is God.. but I do think he has the ability to change His mind on certain things, although perhaps not in the manner you are questioning.

In what manner then?

For example, take the story of Jonah for example. God says He is going to destroy a wicked gentile nation due to their evilness. However, since man is given free will, the nation had the ability to repent and turn back from their evil ways.. which they did. And after they repented, God changed His mind and did not destroy them.

Is this god omniscient?
Because if he is, then what you're describing above is logically impossible.

But also keep in mind that God is not human, and He doesn't think like humans. I don't believe God literally "changes His mind" like a human being would. Rather His truth is eternal and infinite. If there appears to be contradictions, it is merely because man's search for God is imperfect.

Sounds like a massive cop out to me.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

God can make certain conditional promises, which would be fulfilled if people act righteously. But if people break their covenant, God also does not fulfill His promise. It can also be a test for people.

Baha'u'llah revealed in the Book of Certitude:

"Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive. How frequently they denied Him, how malevolently they hinted their suspicion against Him! ..... Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. ....​

And now, consider and reflect a moment upon the waywardness of this people. What could have been the reason for such denial and avoidance on their part? ...Moreover, what could have caused the nonfulfilment of the divine promise which led the seekers to reject that which they had accepted? Meditate profoundly, that the secret of things unseen may be revealed unto you...."

 

[javajo]

To change one's mind, in the Bible the word is repent. Sometimes man repents and there are times that God repented, too. For God to change his mind about something is not changing any qualities or characteristics that make him God.

 

[erelsgl]

The moment you postulate an all-knowing (omniscient) god you have logically removed the option of him ever changing his mind about anything.

An all-knowing god also contradicts the notion of free human choice, since an all-knowing god knows in advance what every human is going to do, so humans are not free to choose what to do.

Therefore, some Jewish scholars say that God intentionally gave up his all-knowingness in order to create humans with a free will, "in His image".

 

[punkdbass]

What? God doesnt change in the sense that He doesnt become a different being or entity, He is who He is for eternity - Malachi 3:6. I guess I should have clarified that, but I dont wan't to say God is completely static, I think he is dynamic in some aspects, but at His core He doesnt change.

In what manner then?

I try not to think of God as a human being type of entity, but rather a force with some sort of consciousness. I dont think God literally changes His mind like human beings do, and thats the main point Im trying to make.

Is this god omniscient?
Because if he is, then what you're describing above is logically impossible.

To be honest, Im not sure what I think regarding God being omniscient. Like erelsgl, I believe God gave us free will, and I dont believe He literally knows exactly what actions we will take next to the smallest detail. Rather He has given us a framework of free will and reasoning to make decisions.. I think he knows would could be, but not necessarily what will be(at least on every single issue)

 

[jarofthoughts]

An all-knowing god also contradicts the notion of free human choice, since an all-knowing god knows in advance what every human is going to do, so humans are not free to choose what to do.

Exactly. But since we were talking about the act of changing his mind I dealt with that instead.

Therefore, some Jewish scholars say that God intentionally gave up his all-knowingness in order to create humans with a free will, "in His image".

Which essentially means that I can know something that god doesn't know?
Cool!

 

[jarofthoughts]

I try not to think of God as a human being type of entity, but rather a force with some sort of consciousness. I dont think God literally changes His mind like human beings do, and thats the main point Im trying to make.

Well, like I mentioned, if he is omniscient, it's logically impossible for him to do so.

To be honest, Im not sure what I think regarding God being omniscient. Like erelsgl, I believe God gave us free will, and I dont believe He literally knows exactly what actions we will take next to the smallest detail. Rather He has given us a framework of free will and reasoning to make decisions.. I think he knows would could be, but not necessarily what will be(at least on every single issue)

And as I mentioned, that opens up a potential can of worms, but seeing as this is a DIR forum we should probably keep a lid on that for now.

 

[nocturnalavalonian]

If God is totally omniscient and already knows everything including past,future and present events then I do not see why he should ever need to change his mind even if, being omnipotent, he could. If there are passages of scripture saying he did then I suspect they ought not be read literally. Even if we have free will to make our own choices he would presumably know in advance what choices we're gonna make, even if he doesn't directly interfere. It's because of things like this that I prefer to take a deistic view of God.

 

[Yanni]

God does not change for He is God.. but I do think he has the ability to change His mind on certain things, although perhaps not in the manner you are questioning.

For example, take the story of Jonah for example. God says He is going to destroy a wicked gentile nation due to their evilness. However, since man is given free will, the nation had the ability to repent and turn back from their evil ways.. which they did. And after they repented, God changed His mind and did not destroy them.

But also keep in mind that God is not human, and He doesn't think like humans. I don't believe God literally "changes His mind" like a human being would. Rather His truth is eternal and infinite. If there appears to be contradictions, it is merely because man's search for God is imperfect.

This is well said. But I should point out that when God PROMISES that He will or will not do something, then since God is perfect, part of that perfection is that He doesn't go back on a promise. Take for example, the Flood. God promised that He would never again destroy the world with a Flood. And according to the Torah, the rainbow was and is a symbol of reminding us of that promise.

 

[jarofthoughts]

If God is totally omniscient and already knows everything including past,future and present events then I do not see why he should ever need to change his mind even if, being omnipotent, he could. If there are passages of scripture saying he did then I suspect they ought not be read literally. Even if we have free will to make our own choices he would presumably know in advance what choices we're gonna make, even if he doesn't directly interfere. It's because of things like this that I prefer to take a deistic view of God.

Also note that an omniscient god excludes the possibility of free will.

 

[nocturnalavalonian]

Yes, I suppose it could, although if it's still us making the choices, that might not be the case, but then again, if he creates the timeline.....I see a problem here. Even without a God at all we still live in a time continuum in which the future might be....I think I'm gonna lie down now.

 

[nocturnalavalonian]

........nope, still got me there!!

 

[erelsgl]

Which essentially means that I can know something that god doesn't know?

Yes, this is one common interpretation of the fact that man was created "in God's image".

 

[Yanni]

Also note that an omniscient god excludes the possibility of free will.

That is not true. The most perplexing thing about this (which cannot be explained through any natural means) is that God's Foreknowledge and man's free will are in no way contradictory. Yes, God knows what decision a person will make; but that in no way limits the person's free choice at the present moment (of course, this is very difficult to comprehend; but for some believers, like me, it's a piece of cake).

 

[jarofthoughts]

That is not true. The most perplexing thing about this (which cannot be explained through any natural means) is that God's Foreknowledge and man's free will are in no way contradictory. Yes, God knows what decision a person will make; but that in no way limits the person's free choice at the present moment (of course, this is very difficult to comprehend; but for some believers, like me, it's a piece of cake).

Right.
This is a DIR forum, so I'll leave it for now.