Can God kill?

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Ok, why would it be illogical for God to kill? Even in the Bible, Jesus cast out Demons, but did not destroy them.

If we are assigning perpetual existence to a spiritual being (Satan, God, Angels, etc. . . ) then it would be illogical for God to "kill" that spiritual being. As in, a being with everlasting existence can't be killed, but he killed it anyways. That statement is illogical, but it presumes that a spiritual being has everlasting existence.

However, as we are to understand that God created all these spiritual beings, ex nihilo, or out of nothing, as it were, then is it any more illogical to conclude that he could send them back to this state of non-existence?

Having a logical discussion about such a matter is entertaining, tho intellectually difficult, because we are attempting to apply logic to an inherintly illogical situation. To form a cogent discussion we pretty much have to decide on, and apply, a certain number of set principles prior to the discussion.

I would suggest the following:

1. God is absolutely omnipotent.

or

2. God is not absolutely omnipotent, but instead has some restrictions oh His power.

If you apply the first standard then quite frankly, the discussion stops at God chooses not to kill, destroy, or de-create Satan. True omnipotence means there is nothing restraining God at all. Not physical laws of nature, not reason, not right or wrong, etc. . .

If you apply the second standard, that God has some restrictions to his omnipotence, then we need to apply characteristics to Satan and God, such as whether they are everlasting spiritual beings, and so forth.

So if we are going to intelligently continue this discussion, I think we need to figure out what set of rules we are going to play by. The third alternative above, of course, is that no spiritual beings exist at all. I realize this is an alternative, but that alternative is a dead end street, and does absolutely nothing to further this discussion, which is quite an interesting exercise in mental gymnastics.

B.

 

[jeffrey]

^I agree. Lets through this into to pot. Satan believes he is God's equal. Why? Can he create universes? Or is it he knows God's limitations? or that God will not destroy him?...

 

[TashaN]

In order to give mankind freedom of choise to sin or to do good (which is, after all why we are here), for God to rid the world of all evil would completely negate our opportunity to think and therefore choose good over evil or vice versa.

Totally agree ...

Moreover, according to my belief this is the story of Satan and why God left him alive.

[ 11 ] It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they bowed down; not so Iblis(Satan); he refused to be of those who bow down.


[12] (Allah) said: "What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."


[13] (Allah) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."


[14] He said: "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."

[ 15 ] (Allah) said: "Be thou amongst those who have respite."


[16] He said: "Because Thou hast thrown me out of the Way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on Thy Straight Way:


[17] "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: nor wilt Thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for Thy mercies)."


[18] (Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee, Hell will I fill with you all.

((Quran 7:11-18)).

 

[jeffrey]

For the sake of arguement, let's say, which I believe, that God can but won't destroy Satan. That means Satan must know he is not God's equal, for if he was, he could destroy God. So therefore he must know that God won't destroy him...

 

[TashaN]

1. God is absolutely omnipotent.

If you apply the first standard then quite frankly, the discussion stops at God chooses not to kill, destroy, or de-create Satan. True omnipotence means there is nothing restraining God at all. Not physical laws of nature, not reason

For me, i'll pick this one.

 

[john63]

He HAS killed Satan. Satan no longer has communion with God, which means he is spiritually "dead". Spiritual death has nothing to do with existence, and everything to do with quality. Spiritual death simply means being apart from God. It happened to Jesus on the cross (Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani) and it happened to Adam and Eve in the garden. This is the death that was introduced with the apple.

Not true. As we see in Job 1 Satan is alive and well and has access to God.

Job 1:6,9


6- Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7- And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8- And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9-Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?​

​

To me this shows that Satan is not dead. Here he is escorted to meet with God by Angels of the Lord so he can challenge God regarding Job's faith.​

 

[TheGreaterGame]

If God can kill, why not just kill Satan and be done with it? I know what the Bible says about chaining him up and casting him in a pit, but would it not be easier to just kill him? Or maybe God can't kill. At least not angles, fallen or not. Your thoughts?

The devil is God's devil.

 

[jeffrey]

The devil is God's devil.

Ok.... And?

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Ok.... And?

and . . . Satan is a pawn in the hand of God . . . thus the Devil is God's Devil

 

[dawny0826]

If God can kill, why not just kill Satan and be done with it? I know what the Bible says about chaining him up and casting him in a pit, but would it not be easier to just kill him? Or maybe God can't kill. At least not angles, fallen or not. Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that it's just not in his plan to do so...right now...

One of the many mysteries of God Almighty...

 

[Mister_T]

I am in the " 1st, he can but chooses not to" brigade.

In order to give mankind freedom of choise to sin or to do good (which is, after all why we are here), for God to rid the world of all evil would completely negate our opportunity to think and therefore choose good over evil or vice versa.

That actually fits in with the applied Masthematic principle that 'Every force has an equal and opposite reaction ( Newton's third law). I often find that threre are close parallels in scientific rules that apply to the abstract .

I agree. God gave everyone the gift of exsisting. And although if he wanted to, he could annilate all of the bad. But that would go against God's perfect nature. God would not give you a gift and then take it away because you want to rebel against him. If people want to defy him and be at the center of the universe, then he gives them exactly what they want.....a place without him (Hell). God made Hell to honor people freedom of choice.